Slaves vs. Free Girls

[fires_flair]

first point I think that any girl should be able to be a matron, I mean if you look at history (roman I think, and maybe some other places), some times slaves had more power, and respect, then free people. it does nothing except cause me to grant a slave freedom.
     besides from that I think free girls should get a bigger happiness benefit from getting items, since you are not expected to provide them with anything extra (you are just their boss). they should also get a bonus when they do things like training or cleaning (clean better), and get higher customer satisfaction since they want to do this, and they want to be there. While slave have to do these thing they will not be as effective as they do not have a choice. and free girls should be able to bring in other free girls and slaves should be able to turn your free girls into slaves. and instead of advertising there should be a whole whack of different jobs, or a couple of jobs but quite a few different texts used (some slave only or free girl only). like free girls should be able to go to parties or social events to attract customers (or do what a slave does). while slaves would only be able to go to the market or bar to attract customers. the higher her fame the more customers she brings in, this could also make fame higher this would cost money and only work when a girl works at it (with a little splash say 10 days, or so). there should also be a job for sending girls to parties (like in slave maker), where both slaves or free girls entertain the guests. I also agree with the slave penalty sgb mention (and I use mainly slaves, it would be a money drop), but I think slaves should not be able to refuse to serve a customer without immediate punishment if you have a matron or some one acting in a position to punish them. I also think that when a free girl gives birth her kid should not automatically become yours, or at least there should be more of a story behind it. Like “she does not want her baby so she sold it to you” or “she decided to keep the baby and will send it to live with her parents when old enough”. and then you should earn less money when you sell any monster kids or boys from free girls (like 5-10%)

[dalmedya]

My suggestions:
Replace the random-encounter-in-town mechanic with a 'marketplace', basically a slave market for free girls (that you don't have to pay money to acquire).
Give free girls libido bonuses.
Recruitment job, where a girl goes out asking other girls to work for you (does Advertising do this already? Maybe it could be a checkbox or something). Better suspicion = more girls, but worse disposition = they run away easier.
Free girls buy you gifts (which go in inventory, dur).
Free girls ask for loans to buy stuff. Which you then charge crazy interest on.
Free girls GIVE loans if you need them.
Free girls have lower base rebelliousness, but it rises faster than slaves.
Bigger initial penalty to happiness for branding as slave, and lower happiness gain for giving items to slaves.
Free girls running catacombs could recruit monstergirls rather than just whacking them on the head. This might require more coding than it's worth on it's own, so maybe just leave it for when you want to look at catacombs as a whole.

[DocClox]

mmm... there's definitely a need for a way to recruit free girls other than hoping for a random encounter, week-on-week. And a recruiting job is one job that could plausibly be restricted to free girls. (I mean you can send a slave to do the job, but it's bound to discourage a lot of the potential candidates.

For the most part though, I'm still not convinced that the slave game is broken. I'd accept that the free game is harder than it should be, but the way to fix that is by making the free game more fun, not by making it less enjoyable to keep slaves.

That said, there are a couple of slave tweaks that I've been thinking about, on and off.

• I think that some jobs should be dangerous to give to slaves, unless they're very loyal. Advertising for instance, practically begs an unhappy girl to run away.
• Others (like barmaid) encourage her to raid the petty cash before she runs.
• I also think I'd like recapturing runaways to be less of a formality. Give it a %chance with the stats of the girls and the recapturing goons both affecting the odds.
• That said - the bug where little girls turn suddenly psycho and massacre all your guards needs fixing too

[fixet]

honestly, I don't see where the "free girls game is hard" thing is coming from

I, for one, would like the game to be more challenging
like adding some strategy elements, diplomacy, or something like that

unless you are taking this free girls thing too far, like immediately releasing everyone from the dungeon and making them whore themselves out, in which case, that's not the game's fault, that's you being stupid

also, how does slavery work exactly?
if I understand, they get a magic brand or something, and it compels them to obey you. how big is it? does it show? do they feel pain if they disobey you? does it just make them want to please you?

maybe the slave girls could have a chance (based on certain stats and items) to try and run away, which the guards, or the security girls try to prevent
I know they should run away if they are unhappy, but it never happened to me, and I had some pretty unhappy girls
and I'm not sure if guards affect that

about the refusal to work
I think it should be the other way around
the girl are there by their own free will, getting paid to do whatever they are supposed to do
having someone who I'm paying to guard my property, or serve drinks to my customers, suddenly say "I don't want to do this right now" does not make sense, nor is it acceptable
slaves can rebel, on the other hand, and it is up to me to have them under control
I don't see a reason why I should coddle my workers so that they actually do the job I am paying them to do

but, rather than just making free girls mindless robots, maybe their traits could could determine what they want to do
like adventurers, tough, etc. not minding to go into the catacombs, while regular girls would be scared

also, I agree that slaves should be allowed to do the work of a matron
them being slaves doesn't make them unable to take care of other workers or slaves
they'd probably prefer it to whoring themselves out so I can make money off of it

I know I'm not being very coherent, but it's late and I can't think that well

[exodia91]

I'd also like to argue for slaves being able to be torturer, I currently have my custom girl Asuka, who's sadistic, twisted, has 100% BDSM, and generally enjoys whipping people, and I had to free her to allow her to work as my torturer, whereas she should have been begging me to let her do it even as a slave, its a rather dumb, pointless restriction.

[DocClox]

honestly, I don't see where the "free girls game is hard" thing is coming from

I, for one, would like the game to be more challenging
like adding   some strategy elements, diplomacy, or something like that

Well, it's hard in comparison with the slave game, or so it seems to some of us. If you want the game to be harder overall, try fiddling with the financial settings in the config file - you can make it as hard as you like.

Improved enemy AI would be nice, but it's a way down the list at the moment.

also, how does slavery work exactly?
if I understand, they get a magic brand or something, and it compels them to obey you. how big is it? does it show? do they feel pain if they disobey you? does it just make them want to please you?

As I understand it, the brand is proof-of-ownership plus some magcial tracking for runaways. I don't think there's any element of compulsion beyond the initial reduction in rebellion.

maybe the slave girls could have a chance (based on certain stats and items) to try and run away, which the guards, or the security girls try to prevent

They do - but I think it's kind of broken at the moment. It's something I might look at once the Lua stuff is stable.

  about the refusal to work
I think it should be the other way around
the girl are there by their own free will, getting paid to do whatever they are supposed to do
having someone who I'm paying to guard my property, or serve drinks to my customers, suddenly say "I don't want to do this right now" does not make sense, nor is it acceptable
slaves can rebel, on the other hand, and it is up to me to have them under control
I don't see a reason why I should coddle my workers so that they actually do the job I am paying them to do

You can argue that both ways. Logically, a well trained slave girl is going to be obedient, while an experience free girl is more likely to "do a diva" and act up because she's goign to be hard to replace. Although I can't imagine that going down well with the non-slavers in the audience

    but, rather than just making free girls mindless robots, maybe their traits could could determine what they want to do
like adventurers, tough, etc. not minding to go into the catacombs, while regular girls would be scared

Better AI is on the list of things we'd like to do.

I'd also like to argue for slaves being able to be torturer, I currently have my custom girl Asuka, who's sadistic, twisted, has 100% BDSM, and generally enjoys whipping people, and I had to free her to allow her to work as my torturer, whereas she should have been begging me to let her do it even as a slave, its a rather dumb, pointless restriction.

I could always add config file settings for matron and torturer. Ideally we want a .jobsx file where the basic parameters of any job can be held, which would probably let us simplify a lot of the jobs code as well, but we probably want to let the jobs system settle down a bit first.

[exodia91]

I have an idea. How about for important unique jobs like Matron and Torturer, they have to go through a special 4 turn or so training period where they're trained in the job but it costs some predetermined amount of money, and at the end they're given a special trait that reflects this and allows them to preform that job, plus a large boost to the relevant stats. I see this also being useful in the future building update where more unique or specialized jobs will be available most likely, so having the code in place might make that easier. Hell you could even have specialized training that costs money but gives girls larger boosts for normal jobs, like stripping and whoring, it'd make a good money sink, and speed up the training process without making the game stupidly easy.

[crazy]

I have an idea. How about for important unique jobs like Matron and Torturer, they have to go through a special 4 turn or so training period where they're trained in the job but it costs some predetermined amount of money, and at the end they're given a special trait that reflects this and allows them to preform that job, plus a large boost to the relevant stats. I see this also being useful in the future building update where more unique or specialized jobs will be available most likely, so having the code in place might make that easier. Hell you could even have specialized training that costs money but gives girls larger boosts for normal jobs, like stripping and whoring, it'd make a good money sink, and speed up the training process without making the game stupidly easy.

I like this ideal.  Would be a nice thing to add.

[ShiningRadiance]

Not sure if it's been suggested, but...

How bout another level of a slave tattoo?

One type would barely affect happiness. It would be basically, "I own you, but you can do pretty much anything you want." The second one would cause happiness to plummet completely, take hp to apply, and damage them every time they refuse to do a job, forcing them to do it anyway. Basically a more 'magical' slave tattoo than the one now.

It would have clear advantages and disadvantages. It would be dangerous to use on fragile women, so it's essentially for strong ones with high rebellion, or for incorporeal women who slaughter a whole gang because they can't hurt them at all. It would increase suspicion by a lot, because it's clearly noticeable when a woman gets shocked by it. Make it so the second kind of tattoo is illegal, and the first one was made to provide a less dangerous way of binding people. With the second type of slavery, it would be unnecessary to call your gangs to control a girl in the dungeon, too. It'll just shock her if she fights back.

The first type of tattoo being placed on a woman would be seen as sort of a good thing in comparison, as opposed to anyone with this attached, who would basically be either pitied or seen as a doll to do whatever you want to.

Also, for girls with masochist applied, it would increase obedience with each shock.

I think either way, adding another option that's worse than slavery would create an interesting angle.

[DocClox]

Nice idea

[Lorde]

Some things I was thinking of about the whole slavery thing.

Using Slavery as a threat for bad performance and girls reacting to you following up on one of them would be neat. Probably be better off scripting that. hmm That gave me an idea for my triggers thread. I flesh it out there.

Using freedom as a dangling carrot for slaves to perform better, be loyal, would be neat as well. Reactions for not following through would be good to.

I don't think Giving slaves certain jobs would be a problem as long as they're loyal enough. (Pin a Rebellion amount to a job and if it ever goes over they get the hell out of there. With cash, a few dead guards and destroyed property to boot.)   Reasoning behind that is the same thing that keeps people in abusive relationships or children with abusive parents. Combination of fear and love with enough gifts and random acts of kindness to always put a thought of "they're not that bad" in the back of their head.

[Zanfib]

On slaves vs free girls.


Free girls:

+ Enjoy working more and have better customer satisfaction.

+ Learn faster.

+ Don't need to be purchased.

+ Can work streets.


- Earn less per customer.

- Can refuse to do some kinds of sex / accept some customers.

- Can quit.


Legal Slaves (purchased at slave market):

+ Earn more per customer.

+ Can't refuse anything.

+ Can't quit (but might run away if your security is bad).


- Dont like working and have worse customer satisfaction.
 
- Learn slower.
 
  - Cost lots of money.
 
  - Can't work streets. (they'll run away).


Illegal Slaves (girls you kidnapp):

+ No cost.


- Huge problems with law.


Monster slaves:

+ No legal protection (not human).

+ Exotic (good brothel ratings).


- Rare (much harder to get then now).

- Dangerous (can kill customers/other girls).

[killjoy57us]

Two things. One, I really like Zanfib's ideas. The "rare monster slave" thing might also go a long way to balancing the game a little better for the "game is too easy" school of thought. Availability of monster girls to enslave could be controlled via config, perhaps?

And two, to counter this:

about the refusal to work
I think it should be the other way around
the girl are there by their own free will, getting paid to do whatever they are supposed to do
having someone who I'm paying to guard my property, or serve drinks to my customers, suddenly say "I don't want to do this right now" does not make sense, nor is it acceptable
slaves can rebel, on the other hand, and it is up to me to have them under control
I don't see a reason why I should coddle my workers so that they actually do the job I am paying them to do

This is going to sound like sociology, but I didn't start it.

Employees act up. They just do. I've worked any number of jobs where someone pulled a stunt. Obviously at that point, you must either fire them and get a new one, or "convince" them to do it. That's part of the free-girl simulation.

Slaves revolt, too, but generally less often, as they are more likely to fear for their lives. Nat Turner led an insurrection and killed 60 people, but the backlash from the white community was to hang him and anyone else who had anything to do with it (and several people who had nothing to do with it at all). There wasn't another uprising like that, from within the slave community. This is history, as it happened.

Granted, we are talking fictional people in a fictional place, but my point is, people are going to refuse to work on either side of the equation, but probably less so if they actually believe 1) their life depends on it and 2) they have no where else to go.

[11Z11]

Look I will only say that so far this good guy route is really sucking balls, I mean,they say they want to work and then they just skip, and you lose money and more money....until you 1000+ like me.
I gave em a 50-50 deal and still they skip work...so far i am not seeing any reason other than a moral light path reason to play the good guy....which is why i am trying this out....sucking balls so far though.....

[Lorde]

Look I will only say that so far this good guy route is really sucking balls, I mean,they say they want to work and then they just skip, and you lose money and more money....until you 1000+ like me.
I gave em a 50-50 deal and still they skip work...so far i am not seeing any reason other than a moral light path reason to play the good guy....which is why i am trying this out....sucking balls so far though.....

Quoted for much truth. I suggested before that girls might be less likely to refuse work for less Sexually oriented jobs like bartender and waitress. Would make finally breaking them all the more rewarding.