install package

[wepwawt]

Is it possible for you to make a setup package for the game including all needed MS VCPP redistrebutable dlls?

[DocClox]

It's a good idea. I wouldn't know how to go about it, offhand, however.

It's been on my list of "things to learn" for a while, but it's never been that high a priority.

[wepwawt]

well, I use sweet old 'InstallShield Express for Delphi 5' in my works. It contains to-do list with the options that are to be customized and the overall process is rather simple.  Then, I think, if it is possible due to license agreements, instead forcing users to download and install all the MS VCPP libraries, those libraries that are in use can be put in the game folder.

[DocClox]

well, I use sweet old 'InstallShield Express for Delphi 5' in my works.

 
mmm... I tend to discount  InstallShield, mainly because a recent copy will set you back the best part of four hundred pounds. I have seen freeware equivalents around, so I'd probably go with one of those.

  Then, I think, if it is possible due to license agreements, instead forcing users to download and install all the MS VCPP libraries, those libraries that are in use can be put in the game folder.

Well, the main argument against this is that it forces players to download all the redistributable dlls for each major release, rather than downloading one time only. It's also a bit of a pain for players who already have the runtime dlls installed for whatever reason.

The bottom line, I guess is that it's never been a major problem. We have a few folks need to be pointed at the relevant links when they first start playing, but considering the number of players we have (using forum membership as a rough guide) the number of people who have problems is fairly small.

Which isn't to say an installer is a bad idea, of course. Just not terribly high priority.

[Dagoth]

I'm experienced with NSIS, and I could set up an installer...

For this game I foresee problems, though. Since installations to "Program Files" tend to be restricted to administrator approval for changing or adding files, it could be a nuisance to add in girl packs and other mods. Also, any files modified or saved by the game itself (just the savegames in this case, I'm pretty sure) would be stored off in the hidden VirtualStore folder (in Windows 7 for instance, it would be "<USER>\AppData\Local\VirtualStore\<rest of path>") and would be a nuisance to get to for the average user.
We could modify the game to have it store all such files in a common location such as "My Documents", but that would result in the largest bulk of the game data being stored there rather than the game installation folder.
At that point, was it really worth it to have it install rather than just unzipping it into a normal folder?

[DocClox]

Came across this: http://www.installjammer.com/

Free installer creator, and cross platform too. (Although that's not so important, given that the Linux based users seem happiest when building from source).

[Dagoth]

You'd still face the issues I mentioned above; for a game that's this moddable, standard installations on Windows are really kind of counterproductive.

[DocClox]

Yeah. I wasn't suggesting we use it.

Although I must admit, I hadn't considered issues with admin rights on Vista and upwards. (If I have to use windows, I'll stick with XP

[Starry]

Yeah. I wasn't suggesting we use it.

Although I must admit, I hadn't considered issues with admin rights on Vista and upwards. (If I have to use windows, I'll stick with XP

Your loss

[DocClox]

Your loss

mmm? XP works runs all the games I want, and I don't use it for anything else. Given that I already have it installed, why would I want to upgrade?

Alternatively, if you meant the fact that we don't plan to supply an installer, you're going to have to explain in a bit more detail.

[Starry]

mmm? XP works runs all the games I want, and I don't use it for anything else. Given that I already have it installed, why would I want to upgrade?

Now that apps are starting to use its functionality, you'll be missing out on direct2d, dx10, dx11, self tuning networking, better quality audio, a self maintaining OS, and all that jazz.  It might not be a big thing right this moment but dx10 does have a noticable presence, and direct2d+dx11 are starting to.
Frankly though, as boring as gaming's been lately I don't expect it to really matter for another few years.

[DocClox]

So basically, it's not so much "my loss", as "probably going to be my loss in five to ten years, depending on when the game studios decide that XP is marginal enough that they can ignore it".

I think I can cope with that

[Starry]

Just Cause 2 already went that route, excellent game.  But even when they aren't ignoring it, you still can't use dx10 or 11.
Of course, whether or not that matters depends on what you play.
 

[DocClox]

Just Cause 2 already went that route, excellent game. 

 
Never heard of it. But I'm sure you're right.

But even when they aren't ignoring it, you still can't use dx10 or 11.
Of course, whether or not that matters depends on what you play.

Borderlands and Fallout 3 don't seem to be suffering for the lack of DXN+1.

If it gets to the point where I find myself inconvenienced, then I'll consider switching (in much the same way as you won't when it comes to web browsers). In the meantime, I'm still struggling to see where any loss might be occurring.

[Starry]

JC2's the only game I've had a lot of people thank me for recommending   (Fallout 3 doesn't have DX10 support that I know of, and Borderlands does but you have to enable it manually I believe.)  I expect a lot more out of DX10/11 in the future as plenty of devs are switching to 7 as well. 
Anyway, I spoke my piece...not trying to make a religion out of it, just extremely enthusiastic about the direction MS seems to be going with everything.