Pink Petal Games
Game Editing And Additions => User Mods => Topic started by: Aika on April 04, 2012, 02:19:31 PM
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Small patch to fix bugs found or fixed after the release: http://www.mediafire.com/?hm800r6lur0cl2e (http://www.mediafire.com/?hm800r6lur0cl2e) (Patch 2.10)
Note: Patch is to be used with the full game download below. It will not work with any other version of whore master. It will not work with my previous mod version. You will need to download the full game linked below, and apply the patch above.
Bugs fixed:
-Security level is no longer reduced by 50 every time a girl does the security job, now only reduced once at the beginning of the day shift.
-Street whores will be able to find customers
-The matron putting the torturer to rest will no longer crash the game.
-Fame works properly now, the number of customers attracted by brothel fame should no longer jump seemingly at random.
-Fame works properly now, it will no longer jump straight up to the max and attract 25 customers in all areas.
-Bar waitresses have been scolded, and will now take customers as they should.
-Security job has been changed, girls will now use the better of their combat or magic, their agility, and their constitution to determine their security contribution. Now less random. Some traits will help more, some traits will hinder more.
-Random girls with the NewRandom="Yes" line in their .rgirlsx file will now correctly pick a profile picture and keep it.
-Bar and Casino staff hire and fire buttons removed
-Added .png support
-Bar Waitress now uses Intelligence instead of Confidence to determine the number of customers she handles.
-Changed versioning system
-Fixed Yukari (... no, this doesn't mean she's sterile now), she will now properly load and appear in the catacombs.
Starting with this patch, previous versions' saves will no longer work. I know it's inconvenient, and it's due to me mucking around with the versioning system. With the new versioning system in place, any saves in version 2.x will load correctly in future patches. If I need to change something that makes saves incompatible across versions, I can change the main version number to make previous saves refuse to load.
The new patch is (finally) ready to go.
Changes in the latest patch:
-Customers will choose areas of the brothel to visit based on fame
-New brothel stat: Reputation. This increases or decreases based on customer happiness.
-Fame change: This now increases or decreases based on reputation
-Rebelliousness changes: Capped at 50, has more effect on whether a girl obeys.
-Obedience now weighs heavier on counteracting rebelliousness
-Customer service job works last, after all other customer-serving jobs do their job.
-Group customers will appear less and pay more
-Bestiality image category and skill replaced with Oral
-Combat, Masturbation, Ecchi image categories added
Download links:
Full game - http://www.mediafire.com/?1fq4hk4x6xzj5m6 (http://www.mediafire.com/?1fq4hk4x6xzj5m6) (Version 2.0)
Source code - http://www.mediafire.com/?3dwtifq8d2xy59t (http://www.mediafire.com/?3dwtifq8d2xy59t)
If you get an error message regarding "msvcr100.dll" or similar, or for that matter any other error which prevents the game from starting, then you need to download and install the VC++2010 redistributable package (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?displaylang=en&FamilyID=a7b7a05e-6de6-4d3a-a423-37bf0912db84). If you have further problems starting then you might possibly try this one (http://www.microsoft.com/DOWNLOADS/details.aspx?FamilyID=9b2da534-3e03-4391-8a4d-074b9f2bc1bf&displaylang=en), this one (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=32BC1BEE-A3F9-4C13-9C99-220B62A191EE&displaylang=en), and this one (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=200B2FD9-AE1A-4A14-984D-389C36F85647&displaylang=en), though they probably aren't needed.
Since the game has had some pretty major changes, I'm not making a patch up from any previous versions of Whoremaster. Any future patches will be based on this version.
Old news:
This patch addresses a number of issues in the 1.30.4 release of the game, and updates the game to the SVN version r634.
-Bar jobs (Barmaid, Waitress, Stripper, Singer) all used the same function, which picks a random job (Barmaid, Waitress, Stripper, Whore) for the girl.
-Bar whores used the same function as brothel whores.
-Stripper job did not increase stats
-Masseuse job did not increase stats
-Customer Service used the same function as gambling hall jobs
-Gambling Hall Jobs (except whore) all used the same function
-Gambling Hall Whores used the same function as brothel whores
-Advertising girls did not get paid
-Advertising girls would still work when they just gave birth
This patch splits the bar into two types: Regular and Sleazy Bar. The regular bar serves drinks and has a singer for entertainment. The sleazy bar has everything you'd expect from a bar in a brothel: Barmaids and waitresses in lingerie or fetish costumes, and strippers and whores for the patrons' entertainment and pleasure. Currently there is no difference in function between regular and sleazy barmaids and waitresses, but this gives me a starting point to change things in a future release.
The customer service job has been implemented. This job makes it easier to take care of customers that either didn't get taken care of by a whore or didn't like any of your girls. After all the whores have had their turn taking care of customers, customer service will go through the remaining customers (or as many of them as they can) and give them a small happiness bonus. ("We're sorry you didn't find any of our services satisfactory. Have a drink on the house.", or something like that.) This won't be as effective as good service from a whore, but it will be better than the customer not getting service at all (which leaves the customer at 0 happiness at the end of the shift).
I've also implemented GonDra's bank patch for Withdraw All, and recreation's scripts for girl interactions.
This patch is compatible with all Whore Master girl and random girl files compatible with game version r593 or later. It is NOT compatible with Whore Master EX girl and random girl files. Yet.
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Always good to see somebody with a different view. Indeed the orginal is too easy and Ex is sometimes buggy, but overal a fun experience.
But more mods are always welcome. I would sugest though to make your mod compatible with the EX girls. Because you have more options for pictures ect.
Good luck with figuring out the code. Lost my own code during a crash. But it was just testing what I could do with the engine.
Can't wait to see what you come up with.
Xipomus
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Since I've been studying the code and figuring out how things work, I've come up with a prioritized list of things to do.
Overall status: Ready to release!
Status update: Bugs squashed and files are being uploaded as I type this.
1:Fix Bar and Gambling Hall jobs + Add Sleazy Bar Jobs
Any bar job chosen will give a girl a random job from the bar. This MUST be fixed.
Edit: Upon closer inspection of the code, it's not just the bar. Bar has a random generator which chooses between waitress, barmaid, stripper, and whore, and choosing whore seems to jump to using the same file as the Brothel's whore. Gambling Hall whore does the same thing, and the other gambling hall jobs just use the same generic file which covers all of them. I've GOT to fix this, top priority.
Edit: This part just keeps getting bigger and bigger. Once I figured out how to do #2, it became necessary to also add the Sleazy Bar Jobs. - Done. Vanilla, but done. I'll work on making it less vanilla in #5.
2: Split bar jobs into regular and sleazy versions
I plan on having a regular bar with barmaids, waitresses, and singers, and a sleazy bar with its own set of barmaids and waitresses, and the addition of strippers and whores instead of singers. This might be doable in tandem with step 1 - Done, this was easier than I thought it would be once I figured out how.
3a: Take customer service out of the gambling hall and put in as a general job
Customer service doesn't just take care of gamblers. It's important for the whole brothel. - Done, while I was at it on #2
Or:
3b: Put a separate customer service job in each area
This might be harder than it's worth to pull off. Might scrap this idea and go with 3a - Idea officially scrapped.
4: Fix Bugs:
Whore job does not affect enjoyment - Upon further inspection, this is working.
Stripper job does not increase stats - Fixed
Masseuse job does not increase stats - Fixed
Group sex increases all skills by 0-3 - Fixed
More than one girl advertising seems to have no additional effect - After further study of the code, this is working as normal.
Customer Service job unimplemented - Fixed, but revealed one additional bug and caused another.
Advertising job girls don't get paid - Fixed
Whores don't get paid - Fixed
5: Check every job to make sure that it conforms to this standard:
a: Assigns a customer (or more than one) to each girl if possible.
b: Has a chance to increase the girl's enjoyment of the job
c: Has a chance to increase the customer's happiness if the girl did a good job
d: Pays for the job
e: Gives the girl some experience and skill
Once I have the major bugs ironed out, it'll be time to take another look at the various jobs. I've already noticed that some jobs don't do all of these steps, but for the most part they all do a and d. It's when b, c, and/or e that are missing that I'll be ripping code apart and putting it back together better. - I decided that anything I do here will make huge changes to the game as is. I've already fixed the bugs in the jobs, doing anything more would change the way the game plays. My objective to this point is not to change the gameplay, but to fix bugs and release a patch. This will go in later.
With The Big 5 (sheesh, how many times have I increased this?) taken care of, I can begin to mod the game. Leaving it at this point would simply mean a more finished version of the game than the dev team left it at, and when (if) the developers ever return to developing the game they can have my mod files to review to decide if they want to implement them in their build.
That said, further to do:
6: Add new image categories: Oral, Ecchi, Masturbation, Combat; remove beast category
I don't get off on bestiality. I don't like the idea of having sex with an animal, and I'm not going to include such in my mod. That established, I'll be adding the Oral, Ecchi, Masturbation, and Combat image types introduced in EX. Expect also to see all bestiality and beast care jobs removed in this step. - Done, but this presents a new set of problems.
7: Edit traits, scripts, and items to increase Oral Sex instead of Bestiality skill
Bestiality is out, Oral Sex is in. But that means there are traits, items, and scripts that are no longer going to work right. Time to seek and destroy bugs and balance this.
8: Modify areas customers will go to based on fame and customer happiness
As I said in my first post, I like this idea of THE FUTURE's, and I don't mind saying I'm going to steal the idea wholesale. If THE FUTURE doesn't like it, I'll refer him back to the GPL for the game he can find in his whoremaster base folder. On that note, I want to see THE FUTURE's source code which, under the GPL he is distributing with his mod, he has a responsibility to make available. - Done.
9: Rebalance jobs and give them unique flavor text
The jobs are all pretty vanilla. They all pretty much do the same thing, and only a few actually matter. I'll be working on changing this.
10: Add in difficulty changes
Like I said, I have a good number of ideas on how to make this game hold its difficulty. Some inspired by EX, some of my own invention. I'm not going the same direction as EX, though; EX seems to promote quantity of slaves over quality. I plan to set things up so you'll need smaller numbers of quality slaves to get ahead. You WILL want to buy more brothels, not just expand the one you start with.
11: More as I finish previous items
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:D
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There are a few other mods out there that fixed some bugs and add things to the game that have source code posted u might want to look at working off them.
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Good to see another guy making an approach on this. :)
You might want to incorporate the changes that Sentza applied to the latest repository version with the hospital and movie studio functionality, for healing girls and for getting an additional source of income by making certain movies but taking the girls off other duties for that time frame.
Also kudos for taking over the new image categories that EX introduced for the girls: Combat, Ecchi, Masturbate and Oral.
Maybe you can incorporate some of those categories to have a chance to occur for girls doing "normal" bar jobs as well, for instance by having a girl getting molested by a stranger (when security fails). Small random events that can trigger a sexy picture from time to time, so that you don't feel like "wasting" special girls on normal jobs and only get a tiny fracture of their actual image count.
Maybe leave Bestiality as category in there, though. Keep it optional, defaulting to another category like normal sex if none of such images is specified. Same as having the other new categories default to some of the old ones (Combat defaults to Death, Oral and Masturbate to Sex, Ecchi to Profile). That way could you maintain compatibility to girl packs from both, original WM as well as EX.
And I am all up for making the game harder. More random events, a higher threat from suspicious authority (from demanding higher amounts of bribe money, over inhibiting the activities of your gang, up to sending officers of the law to your establishments), a near infinite amount of gangs, so that this part of the game doesn't get rendered useless at some point and maybe some huge depths that your father made at the local mafia and now you need to pay high amounts of cash every time a set amount of time has passed, inhibiting your expansion regularly and making the game ultimately harder.
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Apparently my post above was getting a little long for the forum to handle, so I've split it.
Progress Log:
--Splitting the bar jobs into separate functions seems very straightforward. Kudos to the development team, they made this part VERY easy. Setting up the functions for each job, I copied everything in WorkBar.cpp into WorkBarmaid.cpp and removed all randomization and whore function, then used that as a template for the remaining jobs. While checking the brothel stripper job function to see if I could use that for the bar stripper template, I discovered that the brothel stripper does not gain any kind of experience or stats. While looking through the brothel whore function to see if I could use that for the Bar Whore template, I discovered that the Bar Whore job does not affect a girl's enjoyment. Bugs noted for future fix. Bar job separation is complete, Gambling Hall job separation is next.
Spent some time trying to puzzle out the function that populates the job list. The job filters were easy enough to figure out, but I can't for the life of me figure out how it determines which job goes to which job filter. I'll spend some more time on this later, once I finish setting up the gambling hall jobs.
--I created a function in cgold.cpp and put its function header in cgold.h. I don't like the complicated way the development team has been using stringstreams to add strings containing int variables to messages, so the function I created will use stringstream to convert the int variable to a string which can be inserted into the message directly. This simplifies lines such as:
ss.str("");
ss << " Received a tip of " << tip << " gold";
fuckMessage += ss.str();
Down to:
fuckMessage += (" received a tip of " + intstring(tip) + " gold");
Found a bug which causes a girl working as a whore in a group sex session to gain 0-2 points in all skills. Noted for a future fix.
--I had a breakthrough on figuring out how the game populates the job lists, so I went ahead and knocked out #2 and #3. This, of course, made #1 bigger.
Advertising job is bugged, I'll add that to my list of bugs to fix in #4. I also noticed a little problem with some jobs, so I've inserted a big #5 to do.
--Fixed gambling hall jobs and added sleazy bar jobs. Found Customer Service to be using the gambling hall generic job, so I unimplemented it for now. To be fixed later.
--Worked on my list of bugs to be fixed: Whore job at first glance didn't update a girl's enjoyment of the job, but when I finished tracing all the functions the whore job calls, I found that it does. Stripper job did not give a girl any kind of experience or skill, this has been fixed. Masseuse job did not give a girl any kind of experience or skill, this has been fixed. Group sex was giving girls a few points in every skill, including the combat ones. Fixed this so the girl has a chance of getting a few points of group sex skill for each customer in the group. The advertising job looked like it was not giving the correct bonus to the brothel's advertising. After further study, it looks like it is working as intended.
With that list of bugs worked out, I tackled the largest part of this thus far: Implementing a customer service job. Creating the job function from scratch was the real test here of if I know what I'm doing, and in the end I managed to create a function that does what I want it to. Then I had to tackle another problem, that of when this function processes. I want this job to take care of any customers that were not handled by the whores, but if this job is processed at the same time, it will take customers away from the whores. So I tried to create a function that processes customer service jobs after the other jobs. Finding no place to put this function that would also make sure the poor customer service job would also get paid (which is handled in the updategirls function) I instead tried to create a function that processes whore jobs before the other jobs. After combing out the problems caused by this (double messages, etc. caused by the function firing twice), I discovered that the whores were not getting paid. While trying to figure out why the advertising girls that are processing earlier are getting paid but the whores weren't, I came to an important discovery: the advertising girls AREN'T getting paid.
During the Updategirls function, the amount of money each girl makes is initialized to 0, and then the function processes the girl's job. The job function updates each girl's pay, then the updategirls function adds the girl's pay to the brothel's total earned for the turn, which is later added to the player's gold. Advertising girls' pay is updated BEFORE the Updategirls function initializes that amount to 0. The advertising girls aren't getting paid, but the function itself reports their pay. Since I created a function which processes the whores before the Updategirls function, I ended up making the whores make no money for the brothel, which led to the discovery of advertising girls making no money either. Clearly, this must be fixed, but the fix isn't going to be pretty. I'm going to have to sleep on this one.
Or not. This turned out to be VERY easy to fix. Just stop the Updategirls function from initializing the girl's pay to 0, then make sure the CalculatePay function will do the initialization in all cases. Since the CalculatePay function runs at the end up the Updategirls function, putting the pay initialization to 0 here will make sure all girls' pay variable is set to 0 before they begin their next shift.
--I did some thinking as I reviewed the current list of jobs, and decided that anything I do in #5 will affect gameplay. I'm trying to have as low an effect on gameplay as possible for the first phase. Adding the sleazy bar jobs has already done more to the gameplay than I intended. So #5 is scrapped, and this patch is ready to go.
--It's been bothering me how often we see group sex customers, when it says in the code it should only have a 5% chance of happening. It happens regularly enough that I delved into that part of the code to see if I could fix it. I did find the problem. There is only a 5% chance that a customer represents a group of customers, but that group may have any sex preference, and if it doesn't have group sex as a preference it acts as a normal customer. Furthermore, when the game generates the sex preference for any customer, including the single ones, it has a chance of being group sex. So the girl sometimes has other types of sex with groups of customers, and often has group sex with single customers? Doesn't make sense to me. So I fixed it so group customers will always have group sex as a preference, and single customers will never have group sex as a preference.
--Bestiality has been removed from the game. Currently adding the Oral sex type, and Oral, Ecchi, Masturbation, and Combat pics.
--I took a crack at the rebellion functions. It's been bothering me that rebelliousness didn't really seem to do anything, and so I took a look at the overly complicated DisobeyCheck function. I modified the calculations somewhat to be more simple and to ensure that low rebelliousness girls will disobey less, while high rebelliousness girls will disobey more. The calculations will assume that a 0 rebelliousness girl will, barring other factors, still disobey about 30% of the time (note: negative rebelliousness is possible), while a 50 rebelliousness girl will, barring other factors, disobey about 80% of the time. There's a reason those girls get sent to your dungeon, now. They don't do what they're told.
Since Spirit has such a big effect on rebelliousness, and some of the job changes I'm planning to make will make spirit more important, I've increased the effect of obedience on offsetting rebelliousness. I also capped rebelliousness at 50, not that it really seems to matter as I don't think it will go higher than that unless you're abusing a free girl.
Brothel customer happiness and fame are now hidden. There is a new visible stat, reputation. If your reputation is high, your fame will start to rise, but if your reputation is low, your fame will lower. Reputation will always move toward the customer happiness level each turn.
Customers will no longer just go to wherever there's staff. They now choose where they want to go. Your fame level dictates what areas customers are going to visit. Since fame now only increases if your customers are happy, better keep those customers smiling.
--I added a mod to make girls pick a picture and stick with it, but it's not working 100%. Some random girls will pick a picture and stick with it as they should. Some girls still randomly pick a picture every time they're clicked. I can't figure out why this is happening, so I'm leaving it like it is for now. Maybe someone else can poke at it and see what I did wrong.
Interaction sex will now show a picture of the act.
--FIXES TO THIS POINT ARE IN THE CURRENT RELEASE
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Quite some time ago I made a micro patch that added an Withdraw all button to the Bank.
If you want you can use the source and the ui stuff I did for that in your patch.
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Thank you! I'll add that in.
If you're skilled at XML, I don't suppose you'd be willing to help me make some interface changes? I'd like to have the whole game in 1024x768 mode, and I have to admit that my talents lie elsewhere. I'm better at manipulating code than making visual changes.
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The first patch is ready to go. See the first post for details.
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Been a while since I've posted here, but I'm more or less back. Looks great so far Aika. Let me know if there's anything I can do.
Also, a suggestion. An options screen, with a few global variables. You mention you're not into beast stuff, but I know some players didn't like that EX didn't include it. Could do a 'Enable Bestiality' option in the option screen, and have the game check for that when it loads a job list.
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Also, a suggestion. An options screen, with a few global variables. You mention you're not into beast stuff, but I know some players didn't like that EX didn't include it. Could do a 'Enable Bestiality' option in the option screen, and have the game check for that when it loads a job list.
The real problem with allowing bestiality is this: I plan on making my game compatible with the EX packs, and EX had removed bestiality pics. If I do include allowing bestiality pics, all of the EX packs are going to be missing this category of picture.
Though after looking into what it would take to make my game 100% compatible with EX packs, I might scratch the idea and just include the new categories EX added. I have my own ideas for how I'm going to eventually be setting up girls' traits and such, and 100% compatibility with EX means I'll have to use all the same traits EX did.
So that decision is still up in the air. But I still don't get off on bestiality pics, and I don't like the idea of allowing them to be included in any finished project I release. I almost already took a sledgehammer to the bestiality functions in the game, the only reason I haven't yet is because I wanted this patch to have as little effect on core gameplay as possible.
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Totally understandable, Aika. I'm neutral on Beasts myself. Don't really get the appeal, but doesn't gross me out either. Anyway, I'd love to hear more about what you've got planned, via PM or post. I did some work on the code for EX, though very minor, as I couldn't convince FUTURE to share his source. I'll poke around and see if I still have it lying around. It dealt with modifying the script editor to include new commands.
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I did some work on the code for EX, though very minor, as I couldn't convince FUTURE to share his source.
See, this irritates me. Per the GPL distributed with the original game, which FUTURE is also distributing with his mod and I am distributing with mine as well:
To protect your rights, we need to prevent others from denying you
these rights or asking you to surrender the rights. Therefore, you have
certain responsibilities if you distribute copies of the software, or if
you modify it: responsibilities to respect the freedom of others.
For example, if you distribute copies of such a program, whether
gratis or for a fee, you must pass on to the recipients the same
freedoms that you received. You must make sure that they, too, receive
or can get the source code. And you must show them these terms so they
know their rights.
FUTURE should, by the terms of the GPL distributed with the original game, be making his source code freely available. The fact that he is also releasing his game under the same GPL only stresses the fact that his source code should be open source.
This is the last I'll say anything on that matter. No sense beating the topic to death when FUTURE isn't even around anymore.
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Agreed that he _should_ have shared the source, but a moot point now. Anyway, if you're interested, these are the files I changed when I modified the script editor. Fairly intuitive changes for the most part. The .txt file goes into the Script Editor's folder.
http://www.mediafire.com/?g5wviwfh94jjvkw (http://www.mediafire.com/?g5wviwfh94jjvkw)
Edit:
Almost forgot. This code was written for EX, so it references using images for that type. And...I forget who it was that modded the game to display images during interaction sex, but it uses that as well. Commenting out the image references should fix that until/if you implement your own version.
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At this point I think I'm going to have to rework the scripts before I can release the next update. I've just finished removing all bestiality from the game, and added the 4 new image categories of Oral, Masturbation, Ecchi, and Combat. That's going to throw a wrench into a few scripts, especially since I also removed the bestiality skill and replaced it in all cases with the Oral Sex skill.
Currently testing the new image categories to make sure they're displaying properly.
Edit: Image testing is done, and I was pleasantly surprised to discover that EX girl image packs are working as well, if you convert the .girlsx or .rgirlsx file to be compatible with this version.
Now for a real crossroad decision: SHOULD I incorporate EX's coretraits.traits file? This would mean 100% compatibility with EX girl packs, but would also mean I have to follow in FUTURE's footsteps a little more than I would like. I would like to have my own set of traits for the girls in my game, but that would mean breaking girlsx and rgirlsx compatibility with both EX and the regular game.
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Your the one doing all the work. So it would be your call :D
Though, adding his thefutures stuff in would save alot of time when it comes to girl packs. But yeah, it -is- your call in the end :D
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I would say go with your own trait list. It wouldn't take much to adjust any existing girl packs to use your new traits, since the editor should automatically use the new ones.
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I agree with Popuri.
Create your own trait list, add your own and make it so that they have a greater influence on the jobs.
And have fun. A lot.
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What do you mean "incorporat[ing] Ex's coretraits.traits file"?
What would that do exactly?
The reason I'm asking is because I know that Sgb, one of the senior members, wasn't too happy with what EX did to WM's traits.
He said that, and I quote, "EX largely ignores what's written in the girls.xml files and randomizes it. Hence stats and traits you spent time customizing based on each character are thrown out the window, and the only thing that remains is the name and imageset."
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EX had its own set of traits, different from regular Whoremaster. Thing is, FUTURE based his mod on the traits for almost all character growth. All girls had their stats capped at 20 each when loaded, and I think skills were capped at 0. Every single stat gain was done via traits, and many of the traits required other traits to learn them (i.e. tiers). So you might carefully design a girl for the game, only to have EX trim all the stats you gave her to 20 then figure it out from the traits.
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"EX largely ignores what's written in the girls.xml files and randomizes it. Hence stats and traits you spent time customizing based on each character are thrown out the window, and the only thing that remains is the name and imageset."
Well, if we'll have enough different traits (more than Future has made in EX), then we'll have much more opportunities to customise our characters.
After all, in original WM it's kinda hard to decide if some character should has, for example, charisma 40 or 50, especially since it doesn't really mean much in the game, while traits allow you to precisely describe any character.
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Same as the above... EX based the stats of a girl on what traits she had. The stats could be raised in game and by doing so she would gain, or loose, new traits.
Personally I think Aika should just choose what he/she wants to do with traits on his own, regardless of what a senior member thinks. Not trying to be a douche, but the game is open source and i think its fun to see other peoples take on the game aswell. Pretty sure the original creator though so too, seeing as he made it open for anyone to play around with. ^_^
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What did WM do?
Did it base the characters on the traits AND stats?
Could you still 'train' the traits?
It's been a while since I last played.
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The next release of this mod will have full image compatibility with EX. As previously stated, if I don't incorporate EX's coretraits.traits file, it's not going to be fully compatible with EX girlsx and rgirlsx files, and I think I'm going to try to make a file extension change to enforce this. The extension will be something like .girlz or rgirlz (just an example, I haven't decided if this is the file extension I'm going to use.)
I am going to try to also release a modified version of the girls editor that will work with my version. I need to learn more C# before this is possible, though, so it's probably best to plan on changing these files by hand at first.
I've been poking at the script editor, but it's pretty broken for my mod. Well, it's pretty broken overall to begin with anyway. I'm still researching what it would take to either write one or modify the one we have, but considering I don't have the source for the one we have, writing a new one is probably the only option. Now if only I had any idea at all about how to go about it...
If anyone would like to assist with either of the latter tasks, here is the technical information you need: I have removed Bestiality as a skill and replaced it with Oral. When the game loads files, it no longer reads "Beastiality" in any of the items or girls files. Instead, it reads for "OralSex", and assigns that to the point in the array for girl skills variables "Beastiality" used to use. Any scrips which modify the variable directly instead of having the game parse "Beastiality" to the variable will still work, but will assign the value to the "OralSex" instead. Nothing else has changed, from a scripting standpoint.
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I know that there was an attempt at updating the script editor with lua, I don't know how far that got though.
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I exchanged a couple of PM's with DocClox some time ago, and when I asked about Lua scripting I was told 'That was the big problem with Lua - you need to make a separate access function for each value in the game you want to change, and the game architecture isn't particularly accommodating in that respect.'. The post I linked earlier includes my modifications to the script editor's functionality. Not a whole lot I can do to modify the editor itself, though it's fairly simple to change the code game-side, on how it interacts with scripts, and to add new script options to the editor.
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I've been withholding my further changes to the game from the downloads while I evaluate how much of my mediafire bandwidth the current downloads are using. When (if) I decide that releasing another mod isn't going to use up all my remaining bandwidth for the month, I'll update the files, soon-ish.
Otherwise, expect the updates in a few weeks.
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I would say post the changed versions, minus the graphics/girls/etc. My mediafire account doesn't get much use, so I'd be willing to post your game on there, too, if you want.
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Yeah, release it ^_^
Like Pop said I can add it to my mediafire account aswell if need be.
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Yeah, release it ^_^
Like Pop said I can add it to my mediafire account aswell if need be.
Knowing Lurker like I do, he's probably chomping at the bit to start making packs for your version. ;)
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Knowing Lurker like I do, he's probably chomping at the bit to start making packs for your version. ;)
Rofl! Pretty much yeah. I've got a ton packs i've made while being bored but havnt made girlsx files for. Figured i'd save em untill a new shiny version popped out xD
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The next patch is actually not quite ready, I expect it to be ready (barring RL circumstances) by the end of the coming week. Here's an overview of what I've been working on:
I discovered that the fame of the brothel is based on the average of all girls working in it. The happiness of the customers of the brothel is a one-turn average of the happiness of the customers that visited the brothel the previous turn. The bar and casino jobs (besides their whores) do not pull customers from the same pool brothel whores do. Instead, they generate customers. So a girl working in the bar is always going to handle one customer, and get paid a SMALL amount for that, and that customer will not be pulled from the list of customers the whores have to service.
This has complicated the task of generating customers and having them go to the different areas based on fame and happiness. Fame takes a hit every time you hire a new girl. Customer Happiness takes a hit every time Customer Service girl decides to refuse to go to work or (as happens all too often in EX) the customers abuse the poor girl at work and/or she hides under the desk. If I don't address these problems, I'm going to end up with the same problem EX has: The customers wildly unpredictably bounce back and forth between seeing your whores or not. And I'm probably going to end up having to rebalance all of the non-whore jobs, and make some changes to the whore jobs as well.
So, long story short, I'm trying to get a similar system to EX implemented for which areas customers will go, but I'm trying to do it without getting the same problems EX had.
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Sounds good. Keep up the good work.
Getting those annoyances from EX sorted out would be excellent. :D
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Aika, wondering if I could get your thoughts on something I'd tinkered with via scripting before. I'd be willing to put in the effort in coding this, if you prefer, just wondering how it'd fit with your vision of the game.
How do you feel about overhauling training? Instead of simply 'trains her skills', having the option to send a girl somewhere in lieu of a job where she focuses on a skillset?
For example, maybe you send a girl to train with the city watch (or accompany a gang). Boost combat related stats/skills a small amount, maybe affect your suspicion/disposition.
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I've actually got something different in mind for training. I'll be removing the training job completely, and setting things up so that as a girl does her job she'll get better (slowly) at the related stats and skills, barring 'permanent' stats like Beauty. I figure even a mousey girl (low confidence) will eventually get over her fear of crowds if she's forced to sing in front of them on a regular basis.
I found an interesting little bug in the current release, this applies to Vanilla WhoreMaster as well: Cleaning during the day shift CAN cause your filthiness to go negative, and negative filthiness at the start of the night shift will give you extra customers. This will be fixed in the next release.
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I've actually got something different in mind for training. I'll be removing the training job completely, and setting things up so that as a girl does her job she'll get better (slowly) at the related stats and skills, barring 'permanent' stats like Beauty. I figure even a mousey girl (low confidence) will eventually get over her fear of crowds if she's forced to sing in front of them on a regular basis.
Ok! Sounds good. Looking forward to seeing what you've got in mind. :)
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as a girl does her job she'll get better (slowly) at the related stats and skills, barring 'permanent' stats like Beauty. I figure even a mousey girl (low confidence) will eventually get over her fear of crowds if she's forced to sing in front of them on a regular basis.
And at the same time she'll get worse at some other stats or skills? Otherwise we'll quickly end up with almost perfect characters.
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And at the same time she'll get worse at some other stats or skills? Otherwise we'll quickly end up with almost perfect characters.
Yeah, adventurers will likely get hurt on their adventures and lose beauty due to all the scars and appear unattractive to most customers because of their rough nature and muscles (though some might like it). So Strength could be counter-productive for a job as waitress.
Probably makes sense to have some stats have negative effects on some jobs rather than just getting worse again at certain things.
A girl who does hard work like cleaning duty will also not be really attractive and lose Charisma because of less interaction with customers.
Girls who are attacked on work may also lose Confidence.
Girls who are good at BDSM may scare other customers away but will do great as torturers as well.
Maybe have a value that represents where on the scale between "good" and "slutty" a girl is. The value changes depending on the work she does to around the value that is normal for that kind of work. So girls who work as normal barmaid or cleaners are really close to the "good" end of the scale, those who work as sleazy waiters will end up in the mid with a tendency to the slutty side, strippers are even more slutty and whores on the street are the sluttiest of all.
So if a girl assumes a different job that doesn't fit her level of sluttiness, she will do bad at it at first but very slowly over time move to the level for that job again. That way can't you just change girls out that quickly to fill every role but need to decide in the long run where you want them.
Or cap the actual base stats and some values and require traits to gain the really high levels. But in a way that traits don't add to the base stat as soon as they are acquired but are considered whenever the real stat value is evaluated (aka when displaying them in menus or when the job is done, but internally keep the true base stats and trait additions separated to be able to work with the cap).
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Changes coming in the next patch:
Beastiality is removed. Oral, Ecchi, Combat, and Masturbation image categories are in. Oral is working properly, but Ecchi, Combat, and Masturbation still need to be hooked in where appropriate.
Edit: Ecchi and Combat are now working properly. Now I just need to find places to hook Masturbation in. /Edit
Customer happiness is no longer based ONLY on the last turn's happiness. Reputation will now take steps toward last turn's happiness, so you won't suddenly drop from high reputation to low reputation in a single turn anymore. Conversely, you won't jump from low reputation to high reputation in a single turn either. It'll take a few turns.
Brothel fame is no longer based on the average fame of the girls working in the brothel. It will slowly increase if you have high customer happiness, and slowly decrease if you have low customer happiness.
Customers will pick which area they want to go to based on your current fame.
Some notes, for those that want to say I'm mimicking EX. Yes, he gave me the inspiration for the idea, but as I do NOT have access to his code and do NOT know exactly how he coded it in his version, how I implemented it is my idea and mine alone. With the changes to fame and happiness in my version, you will not have to deal with customers being wildly unpredictable as to which areas they will visit. You will not have to deal with customers not wanting to see your whores anymore when you hire on a new girl or buy a new slave. Your fame will gradually increase as you keep your reputation high, and reputation will move toward what the overall customer happiness was last turn.
So far, keeping customers happy is going to be easy. Expect in future patches that I will be rebalancing jobs and changing this.
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Sounds great.
As to people who say you're mimicking EX? Most innovation is expanding on existing ideas. It's great to see the game moving again, and I'm looking forward to seeing where you go with it.
Keep up the excellent work.
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Nobody's actually saying I'm mimicking EX. I just wanted to nip that one in the bud. You all have been great here. At least here I don't have to deal with the drama shitstorm I dealt with in the Futanaripalace forum, where they started berating me for removing bestiality. Even people who didn't like bestiality were yelling at me for 'censoring' it. -_-;;
So screw them. I've taken my ball to play elsewhere, as far as they're concerned.
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The mod seems to be all ready to go, save for one extremely annoying bug I'm trying to track down. The next patch will be uploaded as soon as I figure out what caused the bug and fix it.
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Cool, looking forward to the oppurtunity tospend some quality time with beatuiful girls again. 8)
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The very annoying bug from last night has been tracked down and squashed, and the game is in final testing before release. Before I release, however, I would like to ask a favor from the local image packers.
The regular girls packs are no longer completely compatible with my game, so I need a starter girls pack to pack with my game. The game has the following image categories:
- Profile (Profile*.jp*g, preg variant Preg*.jp*g) - Normal, non-H pictures of the girl. If it's NSFW, it goes in Ecchi.
- Anal (Anal*.jp*g, preg variant PregAnal*.jp*g) - She has a dick up her butt. Toys don't count.
- BDSM (BDSM*.jp*g, preg variant PregBDSM*.jp*g) - She is tied up. This needs to include whipping/spanking/candleplay/toytorture/etc. Even normal sex works, but she must also be visibly tied up.
- Normal Sex (Sex*.jp*g, preg variant PregSex*.jp*g) - She is engaged in normal sex. Creampie pics don't really count here, as far as I'm concerned that's after the sex happened.
- Oral Sex (Oral*.jp*g, preg variant PregOral*.jp*g) - She has a dick in her mouth or is giving a tit job. Again, pics that just show her covered with cum without showing her still working a dick don't count, that's after the Oral happened.
- Group Sex (Group*.jp*g, preg variant PregGroup*.jp*g) - If there's more than one guy participating, this is where it goes.
- Lesbian Sex (Les*.jp*g, preg variant PregLes*.jp*g) - Two girls, at least one of them must be fondling/licking/rubbing the other.
- Ecchi (Ecchi*.jp*g, preg variant PregEcchi*.jp*g) - Normal pick of the girl in some state of undress or wearing something sexy. No toys here.
- Masturbation (Mast*.jp*g, preg variant PregMas*.jp*g) - Touching herself, toys, whatever. If she's doing it to herself, it goes here.
- Combat (Combat*.jp*g, no preg variant) - She is fighting/in a fighting stance/holding a weapon. If she's being overwhelmed or it looks like she's losing in the picture, it doesn't work here.
- Death (Death*.jp*g, no preg variant) - Pictures where the girl looks like she's hurt. It doesn't necessarily mean she needs to be bloodied up, but she shouldn't be standing or look like she only just fell down.
I would like to see at least one or two pictures in each normal category, and if possible one or two Preg pics as well.
The girlsx or rgirlsx files are going to be similar. No traits have been changed as yet, so this will still use the default traits. The Bestiality skill should be replaced with OralSex (no space).
I would like to have 3 or 4 non-monster random girls, and 2 or so monster random girls in the initial pack. If possible I would like to have 5 or so unique girls, with 1 or 2 of them to be found in the dungeon.
Please do not overpower the stats. No stat should be higher than 40 before traits, except Beauty. Beauty should not go higher than 80 before traits. For skills, no skill should be higher than 30 before traits.
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hi, remember me from Futanari Palace? i read about the shitstorm that went down after you anounced the removal of bestiality. i was on holliday sadly.... i would say im sorry but its not my fault :-[ . glad to see you are still pumping out updates! cant wiat for more.
EDIT: i have a few houres free today so i was guna chuck a pack together, i have a few questions tho.
1. is the pregenent ones 100% needed?
2. what about futanari? can you replace the profile with futa pics? (im a fan of futa, thats why i was at FP)
3. are censored images ok?
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hi, remember me from Futanari Palace? i read about the shitstorm that went down after you anounced the removal of bestiality. i was on holliday sadly.... i would say im sorry but its not my fault :-[ . glad to see you are still pumping out updates! cant wiat for more.
EDIT: i have a few houres free today so i was guna chuck a pack together, i have a few questions tho.
1. is the pregenent ones 100% needed?
2. what about futanari? can you replace the profile with futa pics? (im a fan of futa, thats why i was at FP)
3. are censored images ok?
1: Not necessarily, but one or two regular pregnant pics wouldn't hurt.
2: You're free to make futanari packs and make them available as an add-on, but I'd rather not have them in the initial release pack.
3: What's the point, if they're censored?
Good to see you around. Yeah, I'm still irritated about how narrow minded FP is.
Still looking for someone to build a pack of pics for the initial release. Lurker, you out there somewhere?
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well.. i have found the folowing:
Profile - 3 norm
Anal - 2 norm
BDSM - 3 norm 1 preg
Normal Sex - 4 norm
Oral Sex - 3 norm
Group Sex - 2 norm
Lesbian Sex - 1 norm
Ecchi - 4 norm
Masturbation - 0
Combat - 3 norm
Death - 2 norm
for my pack, tho some are censored :(
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Lurker, you out there somewhere?
You raang?
Yeah, I'm here xD And sure I can put something together for you.
Just need images or do you want girlsx files and stuff too?
Got any girls in mind etc?
Can just PM me with preferences if you want. ^_^
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great news!
after giving up making a pack... i was erasing picktures and found my old girls from EX version. are they going to be compatible now? th e only issue i saw was SOME of the pics have brackets EG BDSM(3).jpg while others dont.
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I tried to install the full version (including the patch).
At launch, the program crashes (does not save any logs), and provides error:
0xc000007b.
I tried to install the C + + versions you provided (even in 64bit version)
But nothing.
The problem does not seem the dll, I replaced those with a previous version
the result does not change. The standard version and the EX function properly.
My system is a 64bit Win 7Ultimate
thanks for any suggestions.
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What about handjobs and titjobs? EX counted them to the Oral category. Would that be ok for you or are there plans to add such "motorical" jobs as separate category?
And how is masturbation implemented now? Maybe have some general Horniness value that increases over time (how much depends on other values like Libido) and the higher the Horniness is, the bigger is the chance that the girl won't work on that shift and instead masturbate to lower the value significantly (until it builds up again). Girls who perform jobs that involve sexual contact as well as random rape will lower those values as well, so those girls have a much smaller chance of losing a shift due to masturbating.
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I tried to install the full version (including the patch).
At launch, the program crashes (does not save any logs), and provides error:
0xc000007b.
I tried to install the C + + versions you provided (even in 64bit version)
But nothing.
The problem does not seem the dll, I replaced those with a previous version
the result does not change. The standard version and the EX function properly.
My system is a 64bit Win 7Ultimate
thanks for any suggestions.
0xc000007b is an issue with windows or ".dll" files. getting service packs(normal early ones, sp 1 or 2?) or downloading .dll packages should fix this.
EDIT: woops...
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What about handjobs and titjobs? EX counted them to the Oral category. Would that be ok for you or are there plans to add such "motorical" jobs as separate category?
And how is masturbation implemented now? Maybe have some general Horniness value that increases over time (how much depends on other values like Libido) and the higher the Horniness is, the bigger is the chance that the girl won't work on that shift and instead masturbate to lower the value significantly (until it builds up again). Girls who perform jobs that involve sexual contact as well as random rape will lower those values as well, so those girls have a much smaller chance of losing a shift due to masturbating.
Let's take things one step at a time, shall we please? The changes up to now have been laying the groundwork for changes to come. So far, I've kept velvet gloves on as far as making changes to the core gameplay. Even ripping out Beastiality and replacing it with Oral skill and image category was not much more than replacing references to one with the other, and adding the three other additional image categories didn't change much.
The one major change I've made now is limiting customers to certain areas if your fame is too low, and introducing brothel reputation which gradually moves toward last turn's customer happiness. Once I have some 100% compatible girl packs to release with my game, I'll be releasing the game with this change to see if the change is working as intended and figure out how it affects the balance of the game, and what else I'm going to have to change to keep the game moving in the direction I intend.
I'm one person here. Don't expect me to make sweeping changes to the game all at once, and don't expect me to get to the changes you want me to immediately if at all.
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0xc000007b is an issue with windows or ".dll" files. getting service packs(normal early ones, sp 1 or 2?) or downloading .dll packages should fix this.
Thanks for your suggestion b00marrows, it does not work.
I have already installed the operating system patches. Anyway, I wanted to say that the original WM works, and olso the EX version works.
I believe that is something contained ( or missed) in the compiled executable.
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I have already installed the operating system patches. Anyway, I wanted to say that the original WM works, and olso the EX version works.
I believe that is something contained ( or missed) in the compiled executable.
This is specifically not possible. There is nothing that has changed in my version of the game that would change any file dependencies. If original WM works, then my version will work.
If you're downloading the patch version, you need to make sure you're extracting it to a compatible version of the normal game. It is specifically not compatible with EX.
If you're downloading the full version, you need to extract it to its own folder, NOT to an existing original game folder.
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aika did you see my erlyer post?
will EX packs be useable with this version? when i was looking the only difirence in the pictures is the pics have brackets in the names (EG: BDSM(2).jpg).
also could you make a template for r/girlsx files? so i can check or maybe make new ones for the packs i already have.
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EX packs are not and will never be 100% compatible with this game. I think I answered this same question for you over in the FP forum, and the answer is still the same.
I already posted the guidelines for making image packs for my version of the game. The 'Template' you're asking for should be a girlsx or rgirlsx file from the original game, with the single modification that Beastiality is replaced in all cases with OralSex (case sensitive, no space). This was all mentioned in a previous post.
The game has the following image categories:
- Profile (Profile*.jp*g, preg variant Preg*.jp*g) - Normal, non-H pictures of the girl. If it's NSFW, it goes in Ecchi.
- Anal (Anal*.jp*g, preg variant PregAnal*.jp*g) - She has a dick up her butt. Toys don't count.
- BDSM (BDSM*.jp*g, preg variant PregBDSM*.jp*g) - She is tied up. This needs to include whipping/spanking/candleplay/toytorture/etc. Even normal sex works, but she must also be visibly tied up.
- Normal Sex (Sex*.jp*g, preg variant PregSex*.jp*g) - She is engaged in normal sex. Creampie pics don't really count here, as far as I'm concerned that's after the sex happened.
- Oral Sex (Oral*.jp*g, preg variant PregOral*.jp*g) - She has a dick in her mouth or is giving a tit job. Again, pics that just show her covered with cum without showing her still working a dick don't count, that's after the Oral happened.
- Group Sex (Group*.jp*g, preg variant PregGroup*.jp*g) - If there's more than one guy participating, this is where it goes.
- Lesbian Sex (Les*.jp*g, preg variant PregLes*.jp*g) - Two girls, at least one of them must be fondling/licking/rubbing the other.
- Ecchi (Ecchi*.jp*g, preg variant PregEcchi*.jp*g) - Normal pick of the girl in some state of undress or wearing something sexy. No toys here.
- Masturbation (Mast*.jp*g, preg variant PregMas*.jp*g) - Touching herself, toys, whatever. If she's doing it to herself, it goes here.
- Combat (Combat*.jp*g, no preg variant) - She is fighting/in a fighting stance/holding a weapon. If she's being overwhelmed or it looks like she's losing in the picture, it doesn't work here.
- Death (Death*.jp*g, no preg variant) - Pictures where the girl looks like she's hurt. It doesn't necessarily mean she needs to be bloodied up, but she shouldn't be standing or look like she only just fell down.
I would like to see at least one or two pictures in each normal category, and if possible one or two Preg pics as well.
The girlsx or rgirlsx files are going to be similar. No traits have been changed as yet, so this will still use the default traits. The Bestiality skill should be replaced with OralSex (no space).
Please do not overpower the stats. No stat should be higher than 40 before traits, except Beauty. Beauty should not go higher than 80 before traits. For skills, no skill should be higher than 30 before traits.
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so its as bad as i thought, i will need to open the files and edit them changing "Beastiality" to "OralSex", and removing beastiality pictures and adding oral ones?
the other issue i am having is i dont know what the files are ment to look like... im the folder i have 5 files some look like this:
<Girls>
<Girl Name = 'Hong Meiling'
Desc = 'Hong Meiling is a wandering ex-guard who is very lost. She wants to raise some cash to get home but there isn't much guard work around at the moment.'
Gold = '30'
Charisma = '10'
Happiness = '100'
Libido = '30'
Constitution = '70'
Intelligence = '20'
Confidence = '60'
Mana = '10'
Agility = '60'
Fame = '0'
Level = '0'
AskPrice = '0'
House = '60'
ETC...................
while other look like this:
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<Girls>
<Girl
Name="Angel Virtue"
Desc="The virtue angel is in the Choir 2 rank of power in the heirarchy of angels. They are said to be the miracle angels and aid humans by sending spiritual energy to them. Known for loving positive people who aid others."
Human="No"
Catacomb="Yes">
<Gold
Min="0"
Max="10" />
<Stat
Name="Charisma"
Min="10"
Max="40" />
<Stat
Name="Happiness"
Min="100"
Max="100" />
<Stat
Name="Libido"
Min="10"
Max="50" />
<Stat
Name="Constitution"
Min="30"
Max="50" />
ETC........
my guess is the second on is correct? im so confused...
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The difference you're looking at there is the difference between a .girlsx file (unique girls, specific traits, stats, and skills and a unique appearance) and a .rgirlsx file (randomized generic girls with common appearances). Pay attention to the filename extension.
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riiiggghhhttt that makes things a bit clearer..a little bit...
if i wanted to MAKE a .girlsx file it would look like this:
<Girls>
<Girl Name = 'Name'
Desc = 'Desc'
Gold = '0'
Charisma = '0'
Happiness = '0'
Libido = '0'
Constitution = '0'
Intelligence = '0'
Confidence = '0'
Mana = '0'
Agility = '0'
Fame = '0'
Level = '0'
AskPrice = '0'
House = '0'
Exp = '0'
Age = '18'
Obedience = '0'
Spirit = '0'
Beauty = '0'
Tiredness = '0'
Health = '100'
PCFear = '0'
PCLove = '0'
PCHate = '0'
Anal = '0'
Magic = '0'
BDSM = '0'
NormalSex = '0'
OralSex = '0'
Group = '0'
Lesbian = '0'
Service = '0'
Strip = '0'
Combat = '0'
Status = 'Normal'
>
<Trait Name = 'Trait' />
</Girl>
correct?
(if it isent clear yet i am transfering my favorite packs over from other versions to the one you are about to release. therfor i wanted a template to work on beacuse i have never done this before.)
and the last (?) problem would be the picture names would they need to be "Profile*.jpg" ("*"being a number) starting with no number?(EG:Profile.jpg than Profile1.jpg) or starting with "Profile1.jpg"
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Please don't take any offense to this, but I'm not going to hold your hand through the whole process of converting your girls. Some measure of trial and error is assumed, and I've given you all the information you need to do it yourself. If I hold your hand through the whole process, I might as well have done it myself
I'm currently working on going over the last few details before I release the next mod; making sure the interface changes work correctly, testing and squashing bugs as best I can, ensuring the scripts all work correctly, etc. I should be ready to release by the time anyone working on making an initial pack is finished.
That is, if there's anyone working on the initial girls pack for me. If not, that will delay me a bit while I make one myself.
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Nobody's actually saying I'm mimicking EX. I just wanted to nip that one in the bud. You all have been great here. At least here I don't have to deal with the drama shitstorm I dealt with in the Futanaripalace forum, where they started berating me for removing bestiality. Even people who didn't like bestiality were yelling at me for 'censoring' it. -_-;;
So screw them. I've taken my ball to play elsewhere, as far as they're concerned.
There's nothing wrong with taking the good ideas EX used and putting them into the standard version of the game. The extra image categories not only make sense, but are basically required in order to differentiate the bar jobs from the brothel ones. While I don't particually care about the bestiality category either way, I can understand people wondering why you'd remove something that was already there and no causing any problems (if fact, removing it causes problems since you now have to remove the stat from girlx files). It's your patch, so it's your call if you don't care for it. Any chance you'll combine this way Anon21's patch changes? He fixed all kinds of non-job related issues and annoyances, such as allowing the player to buy new brothels based on total fame instead of businesses for those who want to ignore the useless gang part of the game entirely. I still have his final patch with the source code intact if you want it. Merging his work with your job system and image overhaul would create a perfect (well, as good as WM will ever get) game.
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Please don't take any offense to this, but I'm not going to hold your hand through the whole process of converting your girls. Some measure of trial and error is assumed, and I've given you all the information you need to do it yourself. If I hold your hand through the whole process, I might as well have done it myself
I'm currently working on going over the last few details before I release the next mod; making sure the interface changes work correctly, testing and squashing bugs as best I can, ensuring the scripts all work correctly, etc. I should be ready to release by the time anyone working on making an initial pack is finished.
That is, if there's anyone working on the initial girls pack for me. If not, that will delay me a bit while I make one myself.
well fine, i have changed all 137 girls to my exampled version, ill wait and test. i dobt it will work and after all that shit i doubt ill try to fix it after.
EDIT: 2 things
1. that seemd to come out wrong... ok, i have finished changing 137 girls over to the version i exampled above. and after doing ALL of that i doubt i will do it again.
2. someone IS willing to work on a pack for you, you needed to PM them. they are called Lurker if i remember they replied on the last page i think.
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I've looked through a good number of Lurker's packs recently, actually. A lot of them don't really fit what I'm looking for in the image categories, and I hate to ask him to go out of his way to change his image packs to fit my standard. A lot of his packs would need a lot of changes before I'd be willing to pack them in my game. If he wants to do this, great! But he's done so much already for EX and the normal game, I'd feel all kinds of selfish asking him directly to modify his packs to fit my ideals of the image categories.
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I've looked through a good number of Lurker's packs recently, actually. A lot of them don't really fit what I'm looking for in the image categories, and I hate to ask him to go out of his way to change his image packs to fit my standard. A lot of his packs would need a lot of changes before I'd be willing to pack them in my game. If he wants to do this, great! But he's done so much already for EX and the normal game, I'd feel all kinds of selfish asking him directly to modify his packs to fit my ideals of the image categories.
Dude, not a problem. Basically what you'd need is a start. I dont mind putting one together for you.
Once that is done I can go back to my old shenannigans. xD
But, if you'd rather someone else do it, or you do it yourself. I wont object.
From what i gather you don't want the standard japanese censor stuff, or handjob images in the BJ section?
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Nah, it's more that if it's in the Sex category, sex is what needs to be happening. More often than not, like in the attached picture, sex is not what's happening here. In this picture, she's showing off her tits and he's jacking off. Not sex.
Ecchi category, I see a lot of nude pics, and I don't think they're really appropriate for the Ecchi category in this game. The pictures in this category should definitely be safely in the Not Safe For Work category, but more for how the girl is acting than what she's wearing. The girl can be wearing a burka, but if she's in the process of stripping it off and the important bits are starting to show, it would go in the Ecchi category. On the other side of things, most pictures where she is completely naked don't really fit, especially bathhouse scenes. She's undressed, but she's not acting ecchi, if that makes sense. Or maybe I'm just biased because I get off more on partially dressed girls than fully undressed.
Another point against the nude pics is that the pics in the Ecchi category will be shown in the Sleazy bar or any stripping category jobs. In the stripper job, she's being paid to undress. In the sleazy bar, the barmaids and waitresses will be serving the customers (but not 'servicing') while wearing fetish outfits or lingerie.
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I get what you are saying, and it makes sense.
My packs are tailored after my taste and based off WM EX and its flavor text. But, whatshisface, who made EX wasn't a fan of my packs either since he though they were to hardcore. ;D
My packs will likely continue in the same fashion as the ones i already got, BUT, if you ask me to make a few packs for you as a starter pack i will of course make em the way you want, so they fit in with your vision of the game. :D
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If you could make a few packs for me, that would be great. I've got one unique girl pack already made, who will be appearing in the dungeon. Another 2 or 3 unique girls (at least 2 girls should be found around town, and another dungeoneer wouldn't hurt), at least 2 basic monster girls (catgirls, bunnygirls, etc.), and a few random girl variants to show up in the slave market would get my game off to a good start, and then you'd be free to make expansion packs for my game to your taste for others to download.
Of course, I'll be taking a look at what you release, and if I like it enough I'll be adding it to the game releases. :P
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I could give it a try as well. Lurker and I have worked together (somewhat) in the past before. Was curious about a few things. Do you prefer these images are sized for a particular resolution, for now? I tend to play in 800 by 600 since it fits on my laptop, so most of my images are sized around that. As a result, in general I only use about 1-3 mb of space per girl. As well, would you prefer girls have trigger/script files in their initial release?
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I could give it a try as well. Lurker and I have worked together (somewhat) in the past before. Was curious about a few things. Do you prefer these images are sized for a particular resolution, for now? I tend to play in 800 by 600 since it fits on my laptop, so most of my images are sized around that. As a result, in general I only use about 1-3 mb of space per girl. As well, would you prefer girls have trigger/script files in their initial release?
For now, I'm only releasing in 800 by 600, so images sized for that should be fine. 1-3mb per girl sounds fine, that'll keep the size of the game down. For the initial release girls, the trigger/script files should be kept to a minimum. These are going to be basic girls to get players started with before they start to download the extra girl packs I'll be eventually releasing along with (hopefully) yourself and lurker.
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i'll give it a go tomorrow. For now I'm gonna go back to shitting bricks while exploring "the zone" in S.T.A.L.K.E.R. ! xD
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I threw together an Editor version that should output correct xml files for Girls, rGirls, and items.
Needless to say I don't have tested it with the game because I don't have the Mod version that should require it.
Now a Disclaimer: The Editor doesn't work with unmodified xml files! You have to replace each "Beastiality" with "OralSex" in the files. (search&replace functions are in every text editor known to me, so that should not be an issue)
The Editor seems to work correctly and I even went and changed the Ui to prevent confusion.
There are a lot of things the editor could do better but the source code is a bit messy and I remember next to nothing of what I should about C#, and while I would like to put at least some sanity checks in the code I doubt I will find the energy to deal with the coding.
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That's awesome, thanks! If it works, you just saved me hours to days of figuring out the C# coding.
Now if only I could get my hands on a copy of the script editor source code...
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... 800x600 is an extremely low resolution. Everything will look fugly and/or extremely small. I hope a version with a higher res is on the planning.
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so its as bad as i thought, i will need to open the files and edit them changing "Beastiality" to "OralSex", and removing beastiality pictures and adding oral ones?
yeah this sucks and after i had just got done converting all the images to only WM format i have more stuff to change
Im just going to change Beast to Sex and add some oralsex
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While I've been waiting on Lurker and Popuri to send me a girls pack to use for my release, I've been working on a couple of them myself. I'm finding I'm absolutely clueless when it comes to making a random girl pack, so I've been working on unique girls.
To be included so far in the initial release:
In the catacombs:
Yukari Takeba - Persona 3
Rydia of Mist - Final Fantasy IV
Around town:
Sakura Haruno - Naruto
In the slave market:
At this point, I'm getting fairly excited to release the new version. This is the first release that will contain major changes to the game, and I'd like to get it out there so I can start to get an idea of what I need to work on next. I've tried to do the majority of the testing by myself, but I can only really fix obvious bugs or bugs I'm expecting to find. Now it's time to let more people play it so they can alert me to the less obvious bugs that I'm not expecting. I'm looking forward to it.
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Yukari Takeba - Persona 3
You might want to use some pictures from the pack I've made for wm ex, all links are here (http://pinkpetal.org/index.php?topic=912.0).
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I'll take a look at it, but if anything I'm pickier than FUTURE. You'll see a lot of differences and image recategorization between his version of Rydia and mine.
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Quick question, Aika. For your girls, is the basic trait list what we're using? Also do you prefer all the girls in one big girlsx file, or one file per girl?
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Yes, so far the basic trait list is what we're using. I'll be making additions to the list, but I won't be removing anything that's already there. One file per girl would be preferable, it doesn't really take up much more space (we're talking less than a kb) and this way people can easily remove packs they don't like.
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Ok, I'll work on cleaning some of my stuff up tonight when I get home from class. I've got a ton of random girls, but a lot of them only have about 7 or 8 pictures, and not all are great quality. I raided stuff like FFT and Disgaea human characters.
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Way to much on my plate IRL atm so I havnt gotten far with the girl packs.
Got Ada Wong, Bonne Jennet and Celes Chere almost done though.
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You guys are amazing, thanks for doing this. I wish i knew how to help with the packs ...
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Mid-terms be upon me, so free time is limited. Just wanted to throw one out to make sure it fits what you're looking for, Aika. Here's Tsunade (a little bigger than my usual packs, but still under 5 MB, so not bad. Doesn't have her scripts, since I figure I'll wait until I see what you do with scripting.
Knowing Tsunade, with the current set-up her 'meet' script would have her ring up a huge tab in your gambling den and wind up signing on to work it off. :D
http://www.mediafire.com/?j539f92nedhuu7d
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Looks good. A little high on stats and traits, but not overly so.
I've been thinking about how I'm going to go about the random girls in my mod. The random girls, as I see it, are fillers between the unique girls. Unique girls are the 'special' girls, the ones with lots of sexy pictures to look at, but random girls are the 'common' girls. Since random girls are going to be filling the brothel for the most part, they're the ones we need the most of.
In the interest of being able to make lots of different random girls without blowing the characters folder up to a HUGE size, I've thought up some guidelines for random girls.
- Random girls should have one (and only one) picture in each normal category, and at least a Preg pic, if not all preg pics.
- Each pic in a random girl pack should be similar enough to the others that we can believe it might be the same girl.
- There can be more than one random girl in a single category, IE if you have two schoolgirls and they look different enough, make 2 packs: Schoolgirl1 and Schoolgirl2
- If the pack is full of images of the same girl (not just girls with a similar appearance, but the same girl), go the extra mile and convert her into a unique girl.
The idea here is to be able to fill the Characters folder with lots and lots of different random girls without slowing the game down due to the number of pictures necessary for the game to load.
Unique girls will still be larger packs. Since these are going to be the girls players are going to want to pay attention to, they should have lots of pictures in as many categories as possible.
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Looks good. A little high on stats and traits, but not overly so.
Yeah, part of that comes from her source, where she's supposed to be one of the big bads. I figure it's offset some by her 'Iron Will' and 'Fearless', added to her high spirit and confidence and low obedience, making her really good, but unless you're very nice to her, hard to control.
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I threw together an Editor version that should output correct xml files for Girls, rGirls, and items.
Needless to say I don't have tested it with the game because I don't have the Mod version that should require it.
Now a Disclaimer: The Editor doesn't work with unmodified xml files! You have to replace each "Beastiality" with "OralSex" in the files. (search&replace functions are in every text editor known to me, so that should not be an issue)
The Editor seems to work correctly and I even went and changed the Ui to prevent confusion.
There are a lot of things the editor could do better but the source code is a bit messy and I remember next to nothing of what I should about C#, and while I would like to put at least some sanity checks in the code I doubt I will find the energy to deal with the coding.
I've tested this out with my current items and girlsx files. It seems to work without any problems, so I'll go ahead and replace the old, non-working editor with this one. Thanks a bunch for this!
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Random girls should have one (and only one) picture in each normal category, and at least a Preg pic, if not all preg pics.
Why so strictly? It's not so hard to find at least 2-3 good similar pictures. And since they _are_ similar, you can't make more packs with them.
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Again, the idea is to add as many random girls as possible without slowing the game down in any way. I don't know what the total file size limitations are, and it may only matter to those that have GB's of pictures to be loaded. It may only matter to those with slower systems or less system memory. It may never come up, but at some point the number of pictures being loaded into memory will slow the game down. The game loads all of the girls' pictures into memory when the game starts... ALL of them, and they remain in memory until the game exits. Keeping the random girls as minimal as possible while remaining functional allows for a larger number of girls to be added to the game before it starts to slow the system down.
Of course, I might not completely understand the code that loads the pictures into memory. I'll have to take another look at that section of code later.
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I see. Well, as soon as you'll release a couple of girls I'll start to modify my packs according to your standards.
Btw, what about unique girls? How many pictures can they have?
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aving a lot of pictures isn't what makes the game load long, it's having a lot of girls, because the game only loads the pictures as needed, but loads the girls all at once.
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Sorry about the long delay, but...
!!! Random girls needed !!!
At this point, I'm down to considering recycling the EX basic random girl packs, but those packs are missing a lot of categories, and has some miscategorizations as far as I'm concerned.
I can make unique girls, but I don't have a large enough... collection... to be able to make random girls effectively. I don't want to release a game without any random girls in it though, so if I can't get any help with random girls, I'll be taking some EX packs and seeing what I can do to compile them into a basic pack for my version.
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Alrighty. Gonna have a little free time this weekend between exams, I'll put my unique girls on the back burner and put out some randoms.
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Um, about random girls, should they still have one picture in each category? I don't complain, I just ask because I don't see any reaction to the fires_flair's post.
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Here's my view of things. With high sizes of random girls packs, one of two things is going to happen. One, if the game loads all the girls' pictures at the beginning of the game as I believe it does, having a good number of huge random girl packs is going to slow things down at the start.
If the game loads the pictures as needed as DarkTL suggests, having huge random girl packs is going to make the game slow down as you start to have large total numbers of girls. I do know that the game loads in pictures for every instance of a certain girl. Five instances of the same girl with a 10MB picture pack is going to have the game load that 10MB five times, for a total of 50MB loaded into memory. What happens when you have 100 girls, each with 10MB picture packs? The game takes up 1GB of system memory.
In either case, having large picture packs for the random girls isn't a good idea. It's forgiveable for the unique girls, since you only get one of each of them. But for the random girls which should be making up the majority of your brothel girls, it's a poor idea for each of them to be taking up a lot of system memory.
I don't want to argue over this too much, so I'll just say that as long as you're hosting your own random girls packs, you're free to make them as large as you feel is prudent. But in the interest of keeping the game run smoothly, and also in the interest of keeping my download size as low as possible, the random girl packs that will be included with the game will have ONLY one picture in each category.
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If they only allocated and loaded the images as needed, they should also free the memory again when they are no longer needed. Like loading the image data for each girl in a brothel and freeing it again when you switch to another brothel. Same applies to switching to the dungeon or slave market.
Further optimization would include to internally store which random girls are already present and keep a reference to their image data so that they don't need to be reloaded. Or load each random girl image data to a specific place where it's kept as instance and then just redirect to that data when the image for a girl of that archetype should be drawn.
All in theory, of course, and it would probably involve some tedious rewriting of core components of the game.
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And that's getting more than a little beyond my level of expertise. Modding the game I can do. Messing with the game engine is something I really want to avoid even trying at this point.
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I call Bullshit on your theories of memory consumption.
In a game with more than 50 girls (randoms and uniques) drawn from a Characters folder of 3,2GB I had to click through turn summary like crazy to get it anywhere near 300.000K (for reference this is roughly 300mb) and that is without optimized images.
The game loads and unloads images just fine.
Also roughly 150.000k are already loaded into memory without employing any girls and without clicking through turn summary like crazy the memory print only went up to ~200.000K with more than 50 girls employed.
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I call Bullshit on your theories of memory consumption.
In a game with more than 50 girls (randoms and uniques) drawn from a Characters folder of 3,2GB I had to click through turn summary like crazy to get it anywhere near 300.000K (for reference this is roughly 300mb) and that is without optimized images.
The game loads and unloads images just fine.
Also roughly 150.000k are already loaded into memory without employing any girls and without clicking through turn summary like crazy the memory print only went up to ~200.000K with more than 50 girls employed.
Maybe Aika is right, maybe you're right. Either way, there's really no call for cursing at someone over this, GonDra. If you want to come in and add more girls to the existing ones later, nothing is stopping you. The limited number of random girl images is just Aika's requirements for any girls that will be in the default release of their version of WM.
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I would just like to know where the idea came from that every single picture for each girl was loaded at the beginning of the game. which is redicuous, if that was what happened few people would be able to play since it would take many GB to run, and it doesn't.
though the game might store something like the last 5 images used for each girl, but I could be wrong on that.
personally, I won't download any packs that only have one pic per random. I mean to me that just defeats the purpose. if you're going to do that, make them all unique, or just don't have pictures for them, and make them use the default folder, which makes it so that you'd only have profile and sex pics, by how images are coded.
it's repeative enough when random or unique girls have less then 10 pics (and I often delete those), why would I want one where the girls only have one pic.
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It seems that it needs repeating, the one picture per category is just for the girls bundled into the game download. Aika didn't say he had anything against posting seperate packs or pack additions (more picks for a pack) for separate download. Even if it doesn't affect game performance it does keep the main file download small in size. From my experience it is the number of girl file and number of girls which affect loading time, but other than that I have never noticed issues.
Keep going Aika, looking forward to playing the game again.
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I think Aika also said he/she wanted to keep the file size to a minimum.
That was something that he/she emphasized.
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Maybe Aika is right, maybe you're right. Either way, there's really no call for cursing at someone over this, GonDra. If you want to come in and add more girls to the existing ones later, nothing is stopping you. The limited number of random girl images is just Aika's requirements for any girls that will be in the default release of their version of WM.
I am not sure if that didn't come out right but I took the twenty minutes and tried to ramp up the memory consumption through employing a lot of girls and force loading the images so I have some evidence to back my claim up.
I am sorry if I got misunderstood but I didn't curse at him, I tried to say that his theory was blatantly wrong as indicated by the playing experience of almost everyone that downloaded a lot of girls. In retrospect I shouldn't have used such a hard word but I still stand by my point that his theories are obviously false.
Now I am all for reducing initial file size of the download and would actually propose separating game and girls and also reducing the resolution of the pictures to a size fitting for the default game resolution, which should reduce the size of the initial Girl pack by a lot.
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Still can't find out why are you talking about the memoru consumption. I had aroud 7Gb of images once, and did a VERY long run in WM, had around... i dunno... maybe 500 girls. And still had no problems with memory. Yap, WM was working a little slower, but not much really.
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I feel like i'm getting ganged up on here.
Ok, fine, forget the memory consumption issue. I guess if it's not a problem for you guys, it's not a problem for me. I still want to keep the size of the download to a minimum. So the random girls included with the game are still going to have only one picture per category. That should be the end of this.
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Wow, I already regret I asked about this.
It's not a big deal, guys. Someone (my money’s on Lurker) will make expansion packs for the standard girls anyway. There's nothing to argue about.
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Aika, you are amazing for doing this, anyone who complains about your decisions clearly need to remember that it's you that's putting most if not all of the effort into this.
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Guy.
Nobody said shit about Aika's decision on anything related to the way the game should be made.
They just tried to explain that having a ton of pictures does not increase memory load.
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Wow, I already regret I asked about this.
It's not a big deal, guys. Someone (my money’s on Lurker) will make expansion packs for the standard girls anyway. There's nothing to argue about.
Yeah, i'll most likely make some explansions. And i'm guessing most of the standard girls Aika adds for his release will already have a WM EX version, so all you really need to do is add the images from the EX pack into Aikas standard pack. Piece of cake.
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from all us lurking in the background (lolz) i think why not compramise and make 2 images per category, so those that don;t care about the change will have their memory, and those who want a change won't complain. Or those who want more images can get to their Collections and just insert the images you want? simple really. Also, lurker, will be waiting for those packs. ^^ aika ( I will call you ale), this is your game, remember. You get the pick and choose since you actually put the effort into all of this. Luck to you ale.
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my 35/35 Fios doesn't care about filesize.
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alternate compromise, have 1-5 images for each random girl, have 2-5 random girls, and how ever many unique girls packaged with the game. have another "enhancement" pack available with more girls and additional pictures, especially for the images that come with the original (or point out where they are available, if it's from an add-on).
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since aika has made a decision, lets just respect it and wait for the game.....
im not into the idea of having 1 picture per category either,
but as long as they are other downloadable girls (especially unique ones) as options, i think that settles the problem.
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I do respect his decision, I suggested my alternative only because it is a compromise, and I think some new players might get put off by a lack of pictures. I also suggested the additional image pack so people don't have to download both this pack (assuming the full game is included and it's not a 'patch' type mod) and the original, which could cause people to apply files of the original over this mod.
what he does is his choice. no one is arguing that. And the only reason I even 'argued' over the way pictures are handled was because I know it was wrong, and figured that if it wasn't corrected it might create a lot of confusion and problems in the long run.
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I might sound a bit vulgar here, but...
As long as the single picture induces an erection, then it should be okay. It would just mean that the single picture is of highest possible quality.
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I might sound a bit vulgar here, but...
As long as the single picture induces an erection, then it should be okay. It would just mean that the single picture is of highest possible quality.
^This. Haha brilliant. Thats what i look for when i make my packs xD If im gonna look at naked women for a few hours i want to enjoy it after all :D
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I might sound a bit vulgar here, but...
As long as the single picture induces an erection, then it should be okay. It would just mean that the single picture is of highest possible quality.
*thumbs up*.....totally agree, the more the better.....lol.
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I love this game, but everytime I try to play it the game crashes after like 15 minutes in. I've created a new save file like 100 times and I was happy to see someone working on a updated verison thinking that this bug would've been fixed but it still happens :/
I can sometimes avoid it by doing something else first before pressing next week but sometimes I don't know what's causing it.
Usually when it crashes I get "Girl has no script trigger file" which is pretty much what've happened all the time it crashes... I haven't installed any mods or so, and all I'm trying to do is spend a few hours on this awesome game but it isn't possible if it starts crashing and I lose all progress :(
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I love this game, but everytime I try to play it the game crashes after like 15 minutes in. I've created a new save file like 100 times and I was happy to see someone working on a updated verison thinking that this bug would've been fixed but it still happens :/
I can sometimes avoid it by doing something else first before pressing next week but sometimes I don't know what's causing it.
Usually when it crashes I get "Girl has no script trigger file" which is pretty much what've happened all the time it crashes... I haven't installed any mods or so, and all I'm trying to do is spend a few hours on this awesome game but it isn't possible if it starts crashing and I lose all progress :(
Wrong place for this post, adding error report to your post might help us give you some good advice :)
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Yeah well I wrote it here because I'm trying to play this updated verision now..
edit: Should I create a new thread or want me to post the error report here?
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In here is fine, I think...
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there's a lua script left over that might need deleted for that. I think that was happening to me like a year ago, and that's how I fixed it.
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do you have a matron and torturer? when the matron tries to take the torturer off work, CRASH
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I've been keeping you all waiting long enough for the next release, and I haven't received any random girl packs. So with my apologies to Lurker, Popuri, or whoever else I end up hijacking random girl packs from their EX releases, I'm going to take some EX random girl packs and make a few random girl packs for my release.
The update will be uploaded soon.
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No need to apologize at all. Feel free to grab what you like, all my packs are fair game.
RL has kept me crazy busy of late, sorry I haven't gotten the stuff I'd planned done :(
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Yeah what Popuri said. I was gonna suggest you snag a few of mine anyway since i havnt had time to make any for you. xD
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GOD IM SO IMPATIENT! when you make a pack i could try a replicate it to your standards!
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I've gone ahead and done a mod implementation that will pretty much make the question of the number of pictures in a random girls folder moot. I've taken dqhx's mod which has each random girl pick a profile picture and stick with it, and added it to my mod.
With this change, I've reevaluated the rules I've put in place for random girls, so just ignore that prior post by me. We can have fewer random girl folders now, and still have more unique looking girls. She's still going to dye her hair for every sex act, but at least you'll still be able to identify her by her profile picture.
I've also added his interaction picture mod. Now, once I get off my lazy keister and get some random girls worked out, I can release this mod.
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Awesome, I was beginning to get worried that you had given up. Looking forward to the release.
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when you say they pick a profile picture and stick with it... is it intelligent?(dose it give random girl type 1 number 1 picture 1 and random girl 2 type 1 picture 2? i hope you understand that :D ) and dose it save it into memory?
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Don't thinks so, I think it random which one it picks. Not sure whether it saves. I could be wrong of course.
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when you say they pick a profile picture and stick with it... is it intelligent?(dose it give random girl type 1 number 1 picture 1 and random girl 2 type 1 picture 2? i hope you understand that :D ) and dose it save it into memory?
What would be the point of saving a picture into memory? It prolly just saves the reference to it and then shows it when it is called.
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What would be the point of saving a picture into memory? It prolly just saves the reference to it and then shows it when it is called.
nono, i dont think you got what i ment. the mod is ment to display 1 image to 1 random girl, so... dose it pick difirent pictures for number 2 of the same random girl and another for number 3? and dose it remember this so you can keep track of them as you return to the game... i cant th8ink of a way to make this clearer :-[
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nono, i dont think you got what i ment. the mod is ment to display 1 image to 1 random girl, so... dose it pick difirent pictures for number 2 of the same random girl and another for number 3? and dose it remember this so you can keep track of them as you return to the game... i cant th8ink of a way to make this clearer :-[
Ah, oki, I've got what you meant. My guess is the same as drake's, making it 'intelligent' is doable but is likely to be more trouble than it's worth...
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oh nooo..i hope this is still alive!
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Since there has only been a couple of days without posts I'll say the famous last words: "There's no reason, for concern..." ;)
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Dude's probably playing Diablo 3. :D
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diablo 3 is dead to me.
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diablo 3 is dead to me.
Lmao
I'm to busy these days to even try it but the word is that servers are horrible...
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The servers got better, they just failed for the first couple of days. I havn't had too much trouble since. That being said I am still looking forward to the WM patch. **crosses fingers**
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Ew... Diablo 3
I got hacked, got a rollback after calling blizzard, and haven't touched the game since.
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Ok, I can't say I didn't try at this point. I did implement the code to have each girl pick a profile picture and stick with it, but I can't get it to work consistantly. For some girls, the girls still pull up a random picture every time. For others, they pick a picture and stick with it. I can't figure out why my Schoolgirl random girl works and my Miko doesn't. So I'm going to give up for now, leave what code is there in place so others can see and tweak with it, and release. If anyone can figure out why some random girls work and some don't, PLEASE let me know.
Interaction sex should now show an appropriate picture. Let me know if this is buggy (shows the wrong picture or etc.).
Customers will be drawn to different areas based on your brothel's fame. Fame will rise (or lower) based on your brothel's reputation. Reputation will rise (or lower) if you are (or aren't) keeping your customers happy.
Customer service job is not as effective as getting good service. However, the customer service job will step in and take care of any leftover customers AFTER all other jobs have been processed. The customer service job is pretty much coded from scratch, let me know if it's buggy.
Group customers have been fixed. You will now see them less often, but they will pay more, as was intended.
Capped rebelliousness at 50, and made changes to the rebelliousness calculations. More rebellious girls will disobey more often now, less rebellious girls will obey more. Having a matron has more effect on how often girls obey. Girls will now obey more often if they love you OR fear you, not both. The higher of the two stats has priority. Girls that hate you will obey less.
Made changes to spirit and obedience. Obedience now works more to counteract the effects of spirit on rebelliousness. Having high spirit girls is no longer a liability, if the girl has high obedience as well.
The two random girls and the random monster girl included in the release are average. They are not predisposed to any particular strengths or weaknesses, just whatever the game engine decides to give them based on their stat ranges and traits... except for one thing. Due to the type of girls they are, they have low ranges in all of the sex skills.
Random girls:
Schoolgirl
Miko
Random monster girls:
Kitsune Miko
Girls:
Tsunade Senju (Naruto)
Dungeon Girls
Rydia of Mist (FF4)
Yukari Takeba (Persona 3)
Bestiality picture category and skill have been removed, and Combat, Oral, Ecchi, and Masturbation picture categories have been added.
Files are currently uploading and I will modify the first post with the new links once they are finished.
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Two patches released on the same day... will take a while to test out. Why did you remove beasts btw, I never cared for that but it did not hurt either?
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First, because I don't like bestiality. I've gone over this before. It's disgusting to me, and it will not be in my mod. This is not censorship, as I really don't CARE if someone else's mod has bestiality in it, it just won't be in mine.
Second, just to make room for the Oral Sex skill and picture category. The game's a little crowded on images and skills as it is... and given an excuse to remove bestiality, I took it.
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First, because I don't like bestiality. I've gone over this before. It's disgusting to me, and it will not be in my mod. This is not censorship, as I really don't CARE if someone else's mod has bestiality in it, it just won't be in mine.
Second, just to make room for the Oral Sex skill and picture category. The game's a little crowded on images and skills as it is... and given an excuse to remove bestiality, I took it.
Very definition of censorship... but that isn't a bad thing in this case.
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Haha.
Pretty much.
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Censorship is the suppression of speech or other public communication which may be considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, or inconvenient as determined by a government, media outlet, or other controlling body.
I am not removing bestiality because I don't want others to be able to see it. THAT would be censorship. I'm removing censorship because I, personally, don't like it, and there are other things that removing bestiality would make more room for. I personally don't care if bestiality is in other games, but this one game that I'm working on, bestiality will not be included. THIS IS NOT CENSORSHIP. I am not doing it because it's 'objectionable, harmful, sensitive, or inconvenient'. I have not judged bestiality as something nobody should look at. If you like bestiality, I really don't CARE if you look at it. But I do not like bestiality myself. I don't get off on it, I rather find it disgusting and a turn-off. So I removed it from the game I'm working on.
Not all content removal is due to censorship. Personally, I find it stupid that people cry censorship over the removal of anything that's even slightly questionable, even if the reason for removing the content isn't because it was censored. Now before you start an argument with me about what is and isn't censorship, I'd like to point out that I left the futanaripalace forums because the trolls there, who didn't even like bestiality, kept harrassing me about this and insulting me for censoring. Which, again, was not my intent. I'm NOT going to go through that again here. I should be able to remove or change bits of the game I'm working on that I don't like without being accused and insulted for censorship. You can have your argument about censorship with others somewhere else and not in my development topic, and I'm not going to participate in it.
TLDR version: Take this censorship shit out of my topic or I'm abandoning this project.
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oh god not "censorship" again, that's the reason i had to sign up here...
EDIT: couple of questions;
1. the editor, dose it work unlike with EX?
2. would you be changing items in the future?
3. could you give me some tips towards making a custom unique girl? i always liked a girl pack that included a few "monster girls" (my faves being dragon girl and slime girl), some of these "monster girls" are somewhat "godly" (Medusa being one of them) can you give me some idea of that stats they should have to be "balanced" i would expect them to be high but not too high...
4. Also is there a way to make these girls harder to capture? like they take a few try's or you need to give your slave a curtain item to take with them?
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oh god not "censorship" again, that's the reason i had to sign up here...
EDIT: couple of questions;
1. the editor, dose it work unlike with EX?
2. would you be changing items in the future?
3. could you give me some tips towards making a custom unique girl? i always liked a girl pack that included a few "monster girls" (my faves being dragon girl and slime girl), some of these "monster girls" are somewhat "godly" (Medusa being one of them) can you give me some idea of that stats they should have to be "balanced" i would expect them to be high but not too high...
4. Also is there a way to make these girls harder to capture? like they take a few try's or you need to give your slave a curtain item to take with them?
1: The editor has been modified to work with my version, but when editing existing girls created with other editors you first need to delete any traits that don't exist in my version (The editor doesn't know how to handle them, so tends to ignore them. Then you get errors when the girls are loaded) and change all "Bestiality" to "OralSex"
2: Probably. There's still a lot to do to balance out the game the way I'd want to, and balancing out items would be around the middle of the list.
3: Stats no higher than 40 (80 beauty), skills no higher than 30, limit the number of traits.
4: You mean capture as in enslave? Or capture as in find in the dungeon? The first I will be addressing later, the latter... well, I think it's already pretty random to get girls from the dungeon. I don't think it really needs to be any harder. As for having a certain item, that would be pretty difficult to code in as things are.
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1: The editor has been modified to work with my version, but when editing existing girls created with other editors you first need to delete any traits that don't exist in my version (The editor doesn't know how to handle them, so tends to ignore them. Then you get errors when the girls are loaded) and change all "Bestiality" to "OralSex"
2: Probably. There's still a lot to do to balance out the game the way I'd want to, and balancing out items would be around the middle of the list.
3: Stats no higher than 40 (80 beauty), skills no higher than 30, limit the number of traits.
4: You mean capture as in enslave? Or capture as in find in the dungeon? The first I will be addressing later, the latter... well, I think it's already pretty random to get girls from the dungeon. I don't think it really needs to be any harder. As for having a certain item, that would be pretty difficult to code in as things are.
i meant capture from the catacombs, and it was to do with the "godly" girls i want to add.
i think i found a bug... i cant find ANY customers when i whore on the streets i have gone down to -3048 gold while skipping weeks waiting for SOMETHING to happen, i have tried working the streets by day and night still finding 0 customers.
also im a little confused i pay for bar staff yet i am earning nothing from them... how dose this option work exactly? it seems entierly useless
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Don't worry about bar staff. I need to take that out.
And I found the problem with streetwork. The game is multiplying the number of customers a streetwalker can service by the integer conversion of 2/3. Which converts to 0. I'm uploading a patch for this.
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great, i thought it was me fucking up again XD
-Customers will choose areas of the brothel to visit based on fame
how exactly dose this work? dose it unlock new new areas for customer to choose?
Because personally i don't like the way this works i expect people to come to a brothel to use a brothel like a brothel. i don't expect people to want to use the bar for 3 weeks than use the sleezy bar for another 4 weeks before they decide they will use the brothel like a brothel...
anyway the next issue is how the hell dose a slave get away with serving 2 customers a day at a bar when there's 11 customers asking for barmaids?? and the same goes for waitresses, why do 8 customers ask for them but my slaves only serv 2-3? or on a good day 4? doesn't really seem normal TBH...
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I'd gone over this in my first post, but then I modified it to have all the download links and update information, so it got lost. Sorry.
If you expect people to use a brothel like a brothel, then try a different game, friend. This is an underworld game. You're dealing with gangs, slavery, prostitution, turf wars, and more. Son of a late underworld boss or not, you're still new to the scene. So there's a few hoops you need to jump through to get started.
You're not publically running a brothel. You don't want the authorities to really know what you're doing in the back rooms. When the authorities get suspicious that something shady is going on in that bar of yours, they raid the place. So you want to keep the place as low-key as possible. The bar acts as a front, and as a screen. The Average Joes that come in to get drunk never know there's more than a bar, that there's a casino, sleazy bar, and brothel in the back, but those people that know to ask the right kind of questions will start to figure it out, and as your reputation increases you'll start to attract those kind of people. Advertising isn't so much telling everyone that you have a brothel, but rather greasing the right palms to get the word around to the right people.
I liked this concept in EX, and I implemented it in my game. But I smoothed out the transitions so we wouldn't have the problems EX has, where suddenly you have customers showing up in new areas and need to send girls to cover the new areas, but by the time you get coverage the customers have stopped showing up there because they didn't get service last time, and then you need to pull your girls back to the other areas that are short staffed because you sent them to cover the areas customers stopped going to. Which means that customers stop going to other areas because they were unhappy that you didn't give them good service, and once you get everything settled out again the cycle repeats.
As for the number of customers a girl can take care of... there are stats/skills that govern how many customers a girl will be able to take care of, and stats that govern how well she will do at the job. If you want a girl to take care of more customers, you need to figure out which stats are important for the job you're having her do.
The current build is something of a beta. I've released what I've done so far so I can find out where the bugs are. But I'm still working on the current jobs, and they will be more finished in the next release. In the future, jobs will increase stats, and apply/remove traits. They will also modify customer happiness based on how good of a job a girl did. Currently only the whore jobs modify happiness, which will be fixed in the next release.
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I found and fixed the bug that crashes the game when the Matron puts the torturer to rest. Patch uploaded, and details have been posted in the bugs forum.
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not what i expected from a game called "Whore Master" the name implies something else. also the building being called "Brothels" made me think otherwise.
the thing is i couldent play the way i normaly do because of that bug, so i actualy had to try something elce... witch dident work and i went bankrupt... i have no clue how to play this game without whoring on the streets.
could you explain? i cant figure out how you should be able to affory 2-3 girls with equipment to run the bar with advertising with a measly 4000
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well that came out all wrong ... nevermind i wont post anymore...
Er, dunno what to say about that. If you hadn't noticed, I'm a little long winded. So my apologies for that. I did go over all this once before, but then I edited the post and that information was lost, so you didn't have any way of knowing. I already apologized for this, but apologizing for it doesn't answer your question so I went over it again. I don't mind you asking questions, and my answers to your questions should be taken as just that, answers to a question. I'm not offended, and I didn't think I was complaining. I do take suggestions into consideration, but I have to work within my limited skill and prioritize what goes in immediately and what needs to be put on the back burner.
If any offense was taken, I apologize.
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reread my post i just changed it
also if anything needs to be put on the backburners its THE HUGE LIST OF POINTLESS ITEMS, there are soo many common useless items than can be outdone/upgraded too easily...
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ok i have a new issue, my "security" is ROCKETING down in 50s daily even tho i have 2 girls and a gang defending me...
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At this point, I think I restored the wrong backup last time I ran into a problem I couldn't figure out what I did. I'll have a patch up in a bit, for the fame customers issue. I've already fixed this problem once. >.<
2 girls defending you should be enough to stabilize the security level. Until I get around to rebalancing the jobs, the important stats for Security job are magic, combat, and service skills. Certain traits help, others are bad. Once you have a single girl that can raise the security level by 50 points by herself reliably, she should be able to manage on her own. Gangs don't do anything for the security level, but do try to protect your girls when they get attacked. The security level deteriorates by 50 points every day. It used to deteriorate every time a girl worked security, but I changed it so you don't lose 100 points for 2 girls working security, it just deteriorates by 50 points daily.
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hmm ok i never expected "service" to boost defending, buying a +15 service item boosted my daily defence increase from 30 to 80 AWSOME.
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That shouldn't be happening. What item was it?
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I am aware of the problem with brothel fame rocketing up to max (indicated by the 25 customers attracted by fame and customers visiting every area of the brothel quickly) and am working to fix it. It was an error in logic on my part. I know what the problem is, I'm just poking at and testing different ways of fixing it.
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The problems with fame have been worked out and a new patch has been uploaded. I've now squashed all the major bugs I'm currently aware of. Please post if you find anything that isn't working the way it should. Also, boomarrows has noted that the game is difficult starting out. Please post if you find this to be true as well, as well as suggestions. A job doesn't pay enough? Certain critical jobs cost too much (security? customer service? advertising?) to employ? I can't fix it if I don't hear anything about it. Let me know.
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every time i buy a girl the go back to girl management the game crashes.
i cant even start to make money and look at porn
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Are you using the latest patch currently in the first topic? What girl packs do you have installed? What kind of girl did you buy before returning to the girl management page? Does it crash if you don't have any girls at all? I need more detailed information before I can even guess at what's going wrong. I can't reproduce this bug.
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Don't worry about bar staff. I need to take that out.
I've been wondering about that I've looked the code over and can't see that they do anything now I know they use to in 1.29 but now they don't seem to. Have u seen anywhere in the code that they do anything?
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They cost you money for doing nothing for you?
I can take another look through the code, see if I can find anything. But as far as I can tell, it doesn't do anything for you.
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They cost you money for doing nothing for you?
I can take another look through the code, see if I can find anything. But as far as I can tell, it doesn't do anything for you.
yes in the last patch they cost money but did nothing. (downloading new patch now)
starting out is a little hard (or atleast it was for me) i had trouble filling the bar with slaves due to them being too expencive and you needing 2-3 with equipment to actualy gain money daily.
haha i can see why i had trouble defending, in EX you need combat OR magic, constitution and agility. nothing to do with service :D
EDIT: ok i doubt this is intentional but stats seem to go into a fake negative, where it ignores the stats given by items and depletes further below them down to 0. the reason i find this an issue is because you can un-equip and re-equip it to boost the stat back to what it should be...
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The problems with fame have been worked out and a new patch has been uploaded. I've now squashed all the major bugs I'm currently aware of. Please post if you find anything that isn't working the way it should. Also, boomarrows has noted that the game is difficult starting out. Please post if you find this to be true as well, as well as suggestions. A job doesn't pay enough? Certain critical jobs cost too much (security? customer service? advertising?) to employ? I can't fix it if I don't hear anything about it. Let me know.
Could you enable the pay/cost variables in the config.xml file such that the user can adjust pay/cost? While you can choose excellent defaults, allowing users to tailor the game to their liking is a good thing.
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starting out is a little hard (or atleast it was for me) i had trouble filling the bar with slaves due to them being too expencive and you needing 2-3 with equipment to actualy gain money daily.
haha i can see why i had trouble defending, in EX you need combat OR magic, constitution and agility. nothing to do with service :D
This seems about right. I intended to make it necessary to equip some girls starting out with some basic items. I may tweak things just a little, to smooth out the difficulty... possibly lower the cost of having a security girl, since she's such a required part of the brothel. I've already made changes to the security job so you don't need to employ 2-3 to keep your security level from diving into the negatives... just find the right girl with some helpful traits, and she'll get better at it as she goes along.
EDIT: ok i doubt this is intentional but stats seem to go into a fake negative, where it ignores the stats given by items and depletes further below them down to 0. the reason i find this an issue is because you can un-equip and re-equip it to boost the stat back to what it should be...
I can't seem to reproduce this problem. Is it when you equip a girl, she doesn't increase stats? When a girl is wearing an item her stats drop? Clarify please.
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Could you enable the pay/cost variables in the config.xml file such that the user can adjust pay/cost? While you can choose excellent defaults, allowing users to tailor the game to their liking is a good thing.
I'll see what I can do, this doesn't seem like it would be too hard to add. But I'd also appreciate it if people would give me feedback on the 'excellent defaults' so I can adjust them if the game is too easy or too hard.
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I can't seem to reproduce this problem. Is it when you equip a girl, she doesn't increase stats? When a girl is wearing an item her stats drop? Clarify please.
I'm pretty sure the only stat that can do that is Libido. Don't think any other stats can do that.
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I can't seem to reproduce this problem. Is it when you equip a girl, she doesn't increase stats? When a girl is wearing an item her stats drop? Clarify please.
the best way to reproduce it is with libido, if a girl has 10 libido(example), equip a girl with an item that gives '+X libido' (succubus wardress?)than make her work as a whore for a while her libido will slowley lower to 0. than if you un-equip and re-equip the item that gives libido it will increse to 15 again
hope that helps.
and for balance, starting out is a little easyer with this patch security is allot easyer to cover, the problem is the girls. there are far too many with drug addictions (might just be bad luck) or they have a whole bunch of traits and are too expencive to use as starters...
i actualy found a girl with 0 traits! but for some reason shes stubborn... gaining rebelliousness daily and after scolding will return to work for a while before refusing again, duno why i never have this issue with any other girl
i actualy found a girl with 0 traits today i was amazed! but for some reason she is a stubborn cow! her spirit and
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As far as I know, drug addictions are completely random.
With some changes I made to rebelliousness calculations, having a gang guarding the place and having a matron around are almost necessary. Even a 0 rebelliousness girl will disobey 30% of the time without a matron around, and I've had a -20 rebelliousness girl disobey twice in the same day (RARE occurence, 1% chance). I'm trying to figure out how a -38 rebelliousness girl was able to disobey, since at that level of rebelliousness girls should have a 100% obey rate. Might be a data type problem, I'll have to look into that more when I get back to it (C++ small data types will 'wrap around' if you go too high or too low... in the calculations, if a signed char goes above 127, it wraps back down to -127 and continues up from there).
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Hey, I'm having trouble downloading the game. When I click the link the mediafire site loads with the download link as normal. I authorise it, click the link and get nothing, just reloads the "Download (86.15MB)".
I've tried clearing cookies but get the same results. Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks.
Edit: Anyone else experiencing this problem : It worked after i stubbornly tried the link for the 50th time or so.
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Started playing with the latest patch... for some reason, everyone is only requesting bar staff. I have over 25 girls, and that is all anyone wants.
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Do your best to keep all the customers happy, both shifts. Get the brothel reputation up. Brothel reputation rises based on customer happiness, and customers that aren't taken care of represent a 0 in the calculation for average happiness.When the brothel reputation (represented on the brothel main screen) is high, your fame will start to rise. Fame is hidden, but once it goes above certain levels, customers will start to visit new areas and jobs.
If after more than 20 turns of keeping the Reputation at High the customers still haven't discovered the gambling hall, post here again, there's a problem.
Yes, in my version it IS important to man both shifts. Try the customer service job. The way it's a little bugged right now (logic error on my part, will be fixed in a future patch), it can potentially effectively push customers' happiness above max.
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Are you using the latest patch currently in the first topic? What girl packs do you have installed? What kind of girl did you buy before returning to the girl management page? Does it crash if you don't have any girls at all? I need more detailed information before I can even guess at what's going wrong. I can't reproduce this bug.
yes using the latest patch
no extra girls installed
i tried buying multiple girls the shrine maiden the school girl etc
no luck happense every time
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Great mod :)
Waitress Job seems bugged though, my waitresses only earn 15 gold and serve 0 customers so too many customers ask for the basic bar jobs it seems.
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Great mod :)
Waitress Job seems bugged though, my waitresses only earn 15 gold and serve 0 customers so too many customers ask for the basic bar jobs it seems.
I already fixed that, download the latest patch.
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yes using the latest patch
no extra girls installed
i tried buying multiple girls the shrine maiden the school girl etc
no luck happense every time
Could you attach a copy of the gamelog? It should be in your whoremaster directory.
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Small bugfix: Yukari fails to load because her description is too long. Here's a working girlsx file for her, put it in the whoremaster/resources/characters directory
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Could you attach a copy of the gamelog? It should be in your whoremaster directory.
well it is working for now ...... if it crashes again like that i will attach a log and show u
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wow some items are a little imbalanced, while exploring the catacombs i bumped into an consumable that causes all sex skill to increse to max...
my current issue is with the "worth" section... i have a girl(my first whore) with high stats, max sex skills 14 traits all good (in my eyes) and she is worth 1138 gold BUT another girl(my first guard) with 10 traits (all good) and only max magic and combat is worth 1381. also another girl (second whore) with sex stats between 30-60 with 10 traits (all the same as the first whore) is somehow worth 1547. i will explore into this more it seems wrong...
EDIT: i tthink i found some nice pics you could add to the current packs, should i post links?
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I already fixed that, download the latest patch.
Oops overlooked the patch. Sometimes i'm blind ;D
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well i got bored and started looking anyway haha, ok i have been searching for pics for "Kitsune Miko"
Yes (what i think you would like and should be in)
Profile : Link (http://gelbooru.com/index.php?page=post&s=view&id=1539517) Link2 (http://xbooru.com/index.php?page=post&s=view&id=181093)
Oral : Link (http://rule34.xxx/index.php?page=post&s=view&id=956786) Link2 (http://rule34.xxx/index.php?page=post&s=view&id=829701)
BDSM : Link (http://rule34.xxx/index.php?page=post&s=view&id=948762) Link2
(http://rule34.xxx/index.php?page=post&s=view&id=956888)Lesbian : Link (http://rule34.xxx/index.php?page=post&s=view&id=841981) Link2 (http://rule34.xxx/index.php?page=post&s=view&id=539164) Link3 (http://rule34.xxx/index.php?page=post&s=view&id=12175)
pregnant : Link (http://gelbooru.com/index.php?page=post&s=view&id=759080)
Maybe (what i think could be in but have doubts about)
Group or anal? : Link (http://rule34.xxx/index.php?page=post&s=view&id=947296)
Oral : Link (http://rule34.xxx/index.php?page=post&s=view&id=885809) Link2 (http://rule34.xxx/index.php?page=post&s=view&id=183698)
Combat : Link (http://rule34.xxx/index.php?page=post&s=view&id=846702)
Lesbian : Link (http://rule34.xxx/index.php?page=post&s=view&id=834159)
Group/lesbian or both? : Link (http://rule34.xxx/index.php?page=post&s=view&id=899439)
Lesbian or BDSM : Link (http://rule34.xxx/index.php?page=post&s=view&id=36845)
im looking for ways to contribute to you Aika, if you need anything specific tested please ask!
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I was trying to figure out why my barmaids and waitresses weren't working well and found that they don't get better at their job as none of the skills that increase through working affect the #customers or pay in any way, also your barwaitresses are getting paid twice. Don't you think that the skills used for gathering customers (confidence/inteligence maybe charisma too for maid and confidence/spirit/service for waitress) should increase as they work? As it stands, after getting the girls to be obedient (mostly scold rather than torture in dungeon) they pull in way more customers than they can service, so reputation is held low. Same is true of singers as well
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Some jobs (not all) use Spirit in their calculation for how many of your customers they can handle, others use Confidence. If you're scolding the girls' spirit and confidence into oblivion, they're not going to be able to handle many customers at most jobs. If you're having trouble getting your girls to be obedient, try hiring a matron and putting a gang on guard duty, both of these have a rather dramatic effect on reducing how often girls rebel.
Balancing out which jobs give bonuses to which stats is on my to-do list. Currently, jobs only affect one skill, usually either service, stripping, or whatever sex act was done. The skill is used to determine girl's pay, not how many customers they can handle. I plan on having each job having one stat it will affect, and a few related traits it can give, in the next major release.
I'm planning on making changes to the singer job. It will still have customers assigned to it, and if you have a singer those customers will tip the singer. You just won't see how many customers would have tipped the singer. Same for the Entertainer job in the casino. Since the XXX Entertainer in the casino and the stripper in the sleazy bar will take customers aside for a private show, you'll still get to see how many customers request those services.
If even with girls with high customer-handling stats you're still getting too many customers for your girls to handle, let me know and I'll reevaluate the calculations for how many customers each girl can handle.
Bar jobs customer-handling stats:
Barmaid: Intelligence and Confidence
Singer: Confidence and Spirit
Waitress: Confidence and Spirit (Intelligence and Spirit in 2.10)
Things will change in 3.0 as I reevaluate what exactly spirit and confidence mean for the girls, and how they should affect how the girl does her job.
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Ok, discussion time. As I said in my last post, I'm reevaluating what Spirit and Confidence mean, exactly, for the girls in the brothel. In Vanilla Whoremaster, Spirit is a negative stat that has a high affect on Rebelliousness. In my version, it's a semi-negative stat that has somewhat less effect on Rebelliousness and is offset more heavily by Obedience than in vanilla (I'm still evaluating and reevaluating the rebelliousness calcs). But I don't really see Spirit as being such a negative stat.
Spirit, as I see it, is how much energy the girl has. Not to be confused with Constitution, which determines how long a girl can keep working before she physically can't keep going. As I see it, highly spirited girls would make good Singers, as she can put that energy into her songs. Waitresses need spirit to handle customers, to keep them going when the job gets rough. Not as important for a Barmaid that sits behind a bar, that's where confidence comes in.
Confidence is how well the girl thinks of herself. It's important for the Barmaid job... when you're watching the barmaid mixing drinks, do you really want to drink something she made when she was hesitant and unsure about what she was doing? Also for the Singer job, since she needs to have some confidence in herself to stand up in front of customers and sing, spirited or not.
Spirit has a rather dramatic effect on Rebelliousness, and I'm trying to decide if this should be changed or not. If I change this so spirit does not affect Rebelliousness, I will need to change how Rebelliousness is determined, and I need ideas for this. Obedience only? A new stat? A different stat? A combination of stats?
If any of you have any different opinions on what Spirit and Confidence mean, or have any suggestions for the Rebelliousness, feel free to post them.
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Ok, discussion time. As I said in my last post, I'm reevaluating what Spirit and Confidence mean, exactly, for the girls in the brothel. In Vanilla Whoremaster, Spirit is a negative stat that has a high affect on Rebelliousness. In my version, it's a semi-negative stat that has somewhat less effect on Rebelliousness and is offset more heavily by Obedience than in vanilla (I'm still evaluating and reevaluating the rebelliousness calcs). But I don't really see Spirit as being such a negative stat.
Spirit, as I see it, is how much energy the girl has. Not to be confused with Constitution, which determines how long a girl can keep working before she physically can't keep going. As I see it, highly spirited girls would make good Singers, as she can put that energy into her songs. Waitresses need spirit to handle customers, to keep them going when the job gets rough. Not as important for a Barmaid that sits behind a bar, that's where confidence comes in.
Confidence is how well the girl thinks of herself. It's important for the Barmaid job... when you're watching the barmaid mixing drinks, do you really want to drink something she made when she was hesitant and unsure about what she was doing? Also for the Singer job, since she needs to have some confidence in herself to stand up in front of customers and sing, spirited or not.
Spirit has a rather dramatic effect on Rebelliousness, and I'm trying to decide if this should be changed or not. If I change this so spirit does not affect Rebelliousness, I will need to change how Rebelliousness is determined, and I need ideas for this. Obedience only? A new stat? A different stat? A combination of stats?
If any of you have any different opinions on what Spirit and Confidence mean, or have any suggestions for the Rebelliousness, feel free to post them.
ooohhh ok, i like that it explains alot about how the stats are working (and not working) in my favour. th eonly issue is rebeliousness!
i thing Fear AND love (highest of the two) should counter spirits effect on rebeliousness. its logical realy.
i like the
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i thing Fear AND love (highest of the two) should counter spirits effect on rebeliousness. its logical realy.
Logical and already in place, even in vanilla. The original developers beat me to it. ::)
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ooo i got another idea too, if you controle a girl with fear there should be a downfall (once again its logical) for instance when she is working she is SCARED if she fails she will be scoulded, low self esteem leading to unhappyness and accidents!(possibly a trait? "she is fearfull of what will happen to her" so theres a chance of half the effect of her stats on her job?)
on the other hand love should be the better version leading to happyness increasing, less accidents and all around a better worker.
next i think it should be harder to increse these two maybe half the current increse its far too easy currently.
and lastley is there a way to congradulate a girl? i have always wondered but never experimanted. if not there should be an option while interacting to congradulate them (verbaly/pocket money/ or even sexualy with love/nyphomaniacs?)
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Logical and already in place, even in vanilla. The original developers beat me to it. ::)
wow realy? huh.. cant be... i always have trouble with girls with max love (i run a herum like brothel) max love is the first thing i get on a girl
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Spirit has a rather dramatic effect on Rebelliousness, and I'm trying to decide if this should be changed or not. If I change this so spirit does not affect Rebelliousness, I will need to change how Rebelliousness is determined, and I need ideas for this. Obedience only? A new stat? A different stat? A combination of stats?
If I may add something...
Spirit in Vanilla has such effect on Rebelliousness possibly in the sense of "Break one's spirit" BUT I don't understand why Rebelliousness AND Obedience are both required? Under what circumstances does Rebellious girl Obey and Obedient girl Rebels...
If any of you have any different opinions on what Spirit and Confidence mean, or have any suggestions for the Rebelliousness, feel free to post them.
Confidence should be an asset in every job, especially those that directly deal with people (Barmaid, Singer etc.)
I think Spirit is the perfect stat to wrap Rebelliousness around as in most literature out there you constantly come across phrases like 'spirit of resistance', 'his/her spirit must be broken first' and so on.
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i thing Fear AND love (highest of the two) should counter spirits effect on rebeliousness. its logical realy.
Not really as those two are in no way self-exclusive... Better option is to get the sum and divide by 2.
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Spirit in Vanilla has such effect on Rebelliousness possibly in the sense of "Break one's spirit" BUT I don't understand why Rebelliousness AND Obedience are both required? Under what circumstances does Rebellious girl Obey and Obedient girl Rebels...
from what i can tell Rebelliousness is a figure calculated from other stats (obedience/spirit maybe love, fear and hate too?)
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ooo i got another idea too, if you controle a girl with fear there should be a downfall (once again its logical) for instance when she is working she is SCARED if she fails she will be scoulded, low self esteem leading to unhappyness and accidents!(possibly a trait? "she is fearfull of what will happen to her" so theres a chance of half the effect of her stats on her job?)
Unhappiness... = Yes! Accidents... on the other hand... Fear is one of the most powerful motivators in the world, accidents are not very logical.
on the other hand love should be the better version leading to happyness increasing, less accidents and all around a better worker.
Yeah, cause multiple girls loving one guy never leads to disaster... Since love is not very easy to achieve, a decent addon to WM would be happiness decreasing if player 'forgets' about the girl for a while (No interactions) and increase heavily when player interacts with the girl.
next i think it should be harder to increse these two maybe half the current increse its far too easy currently.
Agree 100%
and lastley is there a way to congradulate a girl? i have always wondered but never experimanted. if not there should be an option while interacting to congradulate them (verbaly/pocket money/ or even sexualy with love/nyphomaniacs?)
In scripts. Use interactions.
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from what i can tell Rebelliousness is a figure calculated from other stats (obedience/spirit maybe love, fear and hate too?)
You're prolly right but I don't have the energy trying to read C++ code :(
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wow realy? huh.. cant be... i always have trouble with girls with max love (i run a herum like brothel) max love is the first thing i get on a girl
Well, here's the code (complete with comments) for the current version. If you can spot something wrong with it, I'd like to know, because rebelliousness and girls obeying are doing some wierd things even in my test brothel.
bool cGirls::DisobeyCheck(sGirl* girl, int action, sBrothel* brothel)
{
int diff;
int chance_to_obey = 0; // high value - more likely to obey
/*
* let's start out with the basic rebelliousness
*/
chance_to_obey = GetRebelValue(girl, false);
/*
* let's normalise that:
* multiply by -1 to make high values more obedient;
* then add 50 to get a range of 0 to 100
*/
chance_to_obey *= -1;
chance_to_obey += 50;
/*
* OK, let's factor in having a matron: normally this is done in GetRebelValue
* but matrons have shifts now, so really we want twice the effect for a matron
* on each shift as we'd get from just one. Either that, or we need to make this
* check shift dependent.
*
* Anyway, the old version added 15 for a matron either shift. Let's add
* 8 for each shift. Full coverage gets you 16 points
*
* Aika edit: increased to 12 per shift
*/
if(brothel) {
if(brothel->matron_on_shift(SHIFT_DAY)) chance_to_obey += 12;
if(brothel->matron_on_shift(SHIFT_NIGHT)) chance_to_obey += 12;
}
/*
* This is still confusing - at least it still confuses me
* why not normalise the rebellion -100 to 100 value so it runs
* 0 to 100, and invert it so it's basically an obedience check
*/
switch(action) {
case ACTION_COMBAT:
/*
* I thought I did this before - must have been lost in the merge
* somewhere.
*
* anyway, separate combat checks into two - half
* for magic and half for combat. If a girl is
* an archmage in her spare time, but doesn't know which
* end of a rapier to hold - that ought to cancel out
*
* Also, let's make this a sliding scale: 60% is the break-even
* point (whores *should* require some training before they'll work
* as soldiers) and for every 5 points above or below that
* there's a + or -1 modifier
*/
#if 1 // WD use best stat as many girls have only one stat high
diff = max(girl->combat(), girl->magic()) - 50;
diff /= 3;
#else
diff = girl->combat() - 50;
diff /= 5;
chance_to_obey += diff;
diff = girl->magic() - 50;
diff /= 5;
#endif
chance_to_obey += diff;
break;
case ACTION_SEX:
/*
* Let's do the same thing here
*
* Just noticed that high libido was lowering the chances
* of obedience...
*/
diff = girl->libido(); // MYR
diff /= 5;
chance_to_obey += diff;
break;
default:
break;
}
/*
* add in her enjoyment level
*/
chance_to_obey += girl->m_Enjoyment[action];
/*
* let's add in some mods for love, fear and hate
*/
if (girl->pclove() >= girl->pcfear())
chance_to_obey += girl->pclove() / 10;
else
chance_to_obey += girl->pcfear() / 10;
// Aika: She'll do it for love OR fear, not both.
chance_to_obey -= girl->pchate() / 5;
/*
* Let's add a blanket 20% to all of that
*/
chance_to_obey += 20;
/*
* let's get a percentage roll
*/
int roll = g_Dice%100;
diff = chance_to_obey - roll;
/* If the result is zero or negative (the roll was higher than the
* girl's chance to obey), the girl disobeys
*/
bool girl_disobeys = (diff < 1 ? true : false);
/*
* there's a price to be paid for relying on love or fear
*
* if the only reason she obeys is love it wears away that love
* just a little bit. And if she's only doing it out of fear
*/
if(!(girl_disobeys))
{
if(diff < max(girl->pclove()/10, girl->pcfear()/10))
{
if (girl->pclove() > girl->pcfear())
girl->pclove(-1);
else
girl->pcfear(-1);
}
}
/* Change by Aika:
* This will only come into effect if the love or fear adding
* to the chance to obey made the difference between the girl
* obeying or not.
*/
/*
* do we need any more than this, really?
* we can add in some shaping factors if desired
*/
return girl_disobeys;
/* Some changes to this made by Aika:
* Changed the calculations assuming a 0 rebelliousness girl
* will have a 70% chance of obeying. With matrons factored in,
* she will end up with 94% chance of obeying with all other
* factors being 0. This has the effect of having high rebelliousness
* girls having (assuming 50 rebelliousness) a 20% chance to obey, with
* all other factors being 0. Matrons will bring that to 44%, but this
* still means high rebelliousness girls will disobey. A lot.
*/
}
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well that wasnet verry nice i was just stating that i still have issues with max love girls....
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I wasn't doing it to be mean. Seriously, disobeycheck is doing some wierd things, because a -38 girl was able to disobey. 38+50+20 = 108, she should have had a 108% chance to obey even without things like Matron affecting the chances. I don't know what's going wrong, it's frustrating.
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oh god sorry i read that all wrong, from what i can see and who i had trouble with i would point at this section
#if 1 // WD use best stat as many girls have only one stat high
diff = max(girl->combat(), girl->magic()) - 50;
diff /= 3;
#else
diff = girl->combat() - 50;
diff /= 5;
chance_to_obey += diff;
diff = girl->magic() - 50;
diff /= 5;
altho im no good with code, i know that the girl i had trouble with has both magic and combat at max.
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#if 1 // WD use best stat as many girls have only one stat high
diff = max(girl->combat(), girl->magic()) - 50;
diff /= 3;
That part should only run if the girl is doing a security or catacombs job. It makes it so the girl has 1% more or less chance to obey for every 3 points above or below 50 in the higher of her combat or magic.
#else
diff = girl->combat() - 50;
diff /= 5;
chance_to_obey += diff;
diff = girl->magic() - 50;
diff /= 5;
That part will never run. The #else preprocessor directive basically comments this part out and runs the #if 1 part instead.
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what about this section?
im guessing the blanket adds a 20%?
/*
* Let's add a blanket 20% to all of that
*/
chance_to_obey += 20;
/*
* let's get a percentage roll
*/
int roll = g_Dice%100;
diff = chance_to_obey - roll;
/* If the result is zero or negative (the roll was higher than the
* girl's chance to obey), the girl disobeys
*/
but i also dont understand the roll? it seems bad?
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Once all other factors have been added to the girl's chance to obey, a percentage roll is generated. If the 0-99 roll is equal to or higher than the girl's chance to obey, the girl disobeys. This is determined in this part:
bool girl_disobeys = (diff < 1 ? true : false);
where if the diff value is less than 1, the boolean value of girl_disobeys is assigned true, and otherwise it's assigned false.
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chance_to_obey = GetRebelValue(girl, false);
/*
* let's normalise that:
* multiply by -1 to make high values more obedient;
* then add 50 to get a range of 0 to 100
*/
chance_to_obey *= -1;
chance_to_obey += 50;
I don't get it... To different from Python.
What does this do? Takes a rebel factor of 90 for example, multiplies that with -1 to get -90 and adds 50? How does that get us in range of 0 to 100?
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Rebelliousness has a range of -50 to 50 in my version. It will not go above or below.
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Rebelliousness has a range of -50 to 50 in my version. It will not go above or below.
Then I am clueless as well, there is nothing I can see in this code that can make a -38 girl disobey unless Fear/Love or especially Enjoyment can go below 0 (like in -90s)
chance_to_obey += girl->m_Enjoyment[action];
/*
* let's add in some mods for love, fear and hate
*/
if (girl->pclove() >= girl->pcfear())
chance_to_obey += girl->pclove() / 10;
else
chance_to_obey += girl->pcfear() / 10;
// Aika: She'll do it for love OR fear, not both.
chance_to_obey -= girl->pchate() / 5;
Edit: Actually it should be possible for a girl to disobey at -38 Rebel. If everything is against you and you get an unlucky roll.
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Eh, well hammering away at it doesn't seem to be helping, so I'm going to leave it alone for now. Back to the original discussion:
If I may add something...
Spirit in Vanilla has such effect on Rebelliousness possibly in the sense of "Break one's spirit" BUT I don't understand why Rebelliousness AND Obedience are both required? Under what circumstances does Rebellious girl Obey and Obedient girl Rebels...
Spirit and Obedience both go into the calculation to get the rebelliousness value. Spirit weighs slightly heavier than obedience, so disregarding traits and any other affecting stats a 100 spirit and 100 obedience girl will have about 17 rebelliousness.
Edit: Corrections. A free girl with those stats will have 32 rebelliousness. A slave girl with those values will have 2 rebelliousness. I'm making changes to this in 2.11, so a slave girl will have 9 rebelliousness and a free girl will have 25.
Confidence should be an asset in every job, especially those that directly deal with people (Barmaid, Singer etc.)
I think Spirit is the perfect stat to wrap Rebelliousness around as in most literature out there you constantly come across phrases like 'spirit of resistance', 'his/her spirit must be broken first' and so on.
I suppose spirit and defiance are somewhat linked in general. But then you get the turn of phrase where a girl without a lot of energy is 'dispirited', and energetic girls are 'spirited', and that energy can be a good thing depending on the job you're doing.
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I suppose spirit and defiance are somewhat linked in general. But then you get the turn of phrase where a girl without a lot of energy is 'dispirited', and energetic girls are 'spirited', and that energy can be a good thing depending on the job you're doing.
LoL 'spirited' can have a very different meaning :)
Actually what you are talking about is mood and enthusiasm but that is not 'spirit', that's 'spirits'. I can be wrong in this as I am not a native English speaker but you cannot use Spirit in that form in the same way you cannot write at the end of a letter: 'I hope this finds you in best of you health and spirit.' You must write 'spirits' at the end or get an F.
Same here:
'To be in good spirits!'
'To act in good spirit!'
If you want to use it in your interpretation you'll have to change it to Spirits in code.
I remain of the opinion that:
You can only use Spirit in sense of Soul/Ghost/Holy or kind of a Moral/Mental Strength/Conviction...
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You can only use Spirit in sense of Soul/Ghost/Holy or kind of a Moral/Mental Strength/Conviction...
Actually, according to http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/spirit?s=t (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/spirit?s=t) the word spirit as a noun has 25 different uses, 2 more as an adjective, 3 as a verb, and it also mentions 1 as an idiom!
In terms of the game, spirit seems to represent nerve / courage / chutzpah / spunk / independence / ...and stuff. It takes guts to get up in front of a beery leery bunch of strangers and sing them a pitch-perfect song, so it's counted as a positive attribute for singing in the bar, which makes sense, but it's also a bad attribute in terms of being able to actually control the girl - everyone knows that Divas can be a pain in the backside to actually work with, and the music industry in particular is renowned for them! So it nicely gives you a dilemma when you have a talented girl that spends half her time not working for you - do you try to break her spirit so you can actually get her to work when she's supposed to, or do you handle with kidgloves cos you're scared to risk impacting on the very thing that makes her talented?
So yeah spirit might not be the ideal word, but if you change it for one that's better then everyone that's ever made a GPAC is going to be kinda annoyed, and it's understandable enough I think - English has always been a bit flexible, with every word having a million different meanings, it's why we love our double entendres :P
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Well, whatever you call spirit, confidence, etc. The issue remains, that the design of the game naturally lowers spirit, and to a lesser extent confidence, yet offers no way to increase spirit or confidence other than items. Other stats like charisma, beauty, even constitution can be increased readily, if not slowly. So as a result, girls will tend to get worse at jobs that require spirit and confidence over time.
Now if you rework all the scripts, or fold in changes that others have made, neither of which is likely to be as simple as changing the jobs to slowly building up, it might work. After all, how many barmaids/waitresses, singers, etc. will work a year, and be significantly worse (less customers) than they started, yet get paid more?
One of the benefits of having girls grow better at serving customers over time is that as the number of girls necessary to meet demand in one area reduces, you can shift some up into the higher tiers.
Of course, it IS your baby, so you have the perogative to do what you want, I certainly have never been able to keep momentum going long enough on modding the game to be post worthy, so kudos to you on that acheivement.
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Actually, according to http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/spirit?s=t (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/spirit?s=t) the word spirit as a noun has 25 different uses, 2 more as an adjective, 3 as a verb, and it also mentions 1 as an idiom!
In terms of the game, spirit seems to represent nerve / courage / chutzpah / spunk / independence / ...and stuff. It takes guts to get up in front of a beery leery bunch of strangers and sing them a pitch-perfect song, so it's counted as a positive attribute for singing in the bar, which makes sense, but it's also a bad attribute in terms of being able to actually control the girl - everyone knows that Divas can be a pain in the backside to actually work with, and the music industry in particular is renowned for them! So it nicely gives you a dilemma when you have a talented girl that spends half her time not working for you - do you try to break her spirit so you can actually get her to work when she's supposed to, or do you handle with kidgloves cos you're scared to risk impacting on the very thing that makes her talented?
So yeah spirit might not be the ideal word, but if you change it for one that's better then everyone that's ever made a GPAC is going to be kinda annoyed, and it's understandable enough I think - English has always been a bit flexible, with every word having a million different meanings, it's why we love our double entendres :P
Good points, and I think I'll be keeping things the way they are then. Spirit measures the girl's energy and enthusiasm, and also the girl's willfulness and defiance. Obedience will continue to offset the girl's Rebelliousness from spirit, but highly spirited girls will still be a handful. They will also be better at certain jobs where their energy/enthusiasm is an asset, for example and especially the singer.
If there's any job that will be able to be used to lower spirit, I would say it's the Customer Service job. If there's anything that will suck the life and soul right out of you, it's that...
*cough* anyway... moving on.
I've seen some good suggestions in here, and I'll be adding some of them to my to-do list. But my next release will be under Whore Master MMX, together with Crazy, so keep an eye on that topic for my next update. Keep the suggestions coming, though. I like seeing what other people can come up with, and sometimes I see an idea and go 'Ok, this is going in RIGHT NOW.'
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*cough* anyway... moving on.
But, but... why?
Even if everyone who reads the dictionary in the link CeeBod provided chooses to ignore that the only reference directly points to Mood/Enthusiasm clearly states in bold with an s at the end:
13. spirits, feelings or mood with regard to exaltation or depression: low spirits; good spirits.
And practically every other meaning points to Soul/Ghost/Holy or Mental/Moral Strength or Conviction (Except distilled alcohol and several 'spirit of ____' meanings), there is a clear conflict if this is left unresolved. Here is why:
A girl is forced a slave or/and sent to dungeon: Mood (spirits) fall instantly (unless masochist trait) while the defiance will rise in protest to abuse (spirits in sense of Courage/Moral and etc.) at least until we manage to break her spirit by torture/deprivation. I can think of a bunch of different examples... but you get the picture, in many places in the game = spirits (mood, enthusiasm) and spirit (courage, firmness of intent, vigor) are self-excluding and we'll be suffering from cognitive dissonance if we use both at the same time.
Mood or Enthusiasm can be added to the game to fix this issue...
Actually, according to http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/spirit?s=t (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/spirit?s=t) the word spirit as a noun has 25 different uses, 2 more as an adjective, 3 as a verb, and it also mentions 1 as an idiom!
In terms of the game, spirit seems to represent nerve / courage / chutzpah / spunk / independence / ...and stuff. It takes guts to get up in front of a beery leery bunch of strangers and sing them a pitch-perfect song, so it's counted as a positive attribute for singing in the bar, which makes sense, but it's also a bad attribute in terms of being able to actually control the girl - everyone knows that Divas can be a pain in the backside to actually work with, and the music industry in particular is renowned for them! So it nicely gives you a dilemma when you have a talented girl that spends half her time not working for you - do you try to break her spirit so you can actually get her to work when she's supposed to, or do you handle with kidgloves cos you're scared to risk impacting on the very thing that makes her talented?
So yeah spirit might not be the ideal word, but if you change it for one that's better then everyone that's ever made a GPAC is going to be kinda annoyed, and it's understandable enough I think - English has always been a bit flexible, with every word having a million different meanings, it's why we love our double entendres :P
And if one reads the uses they would come to the conclusion same as yours... why after 'nerve / courage / chutzpah / spunk / independence' you're talking about singers? When spirit is used in that sense Benjamin Franklin, Joan de Arc, Charles de Gaulle spring into my mind... Maybe 300 Spartans. How do you get to Mariah Carey and Britney Spears so quickly. Spirit in that sense should mean more than courage barmaid needs to get out a song, defying Slavery, Ownership and Abuse is what Spirit seems to mean in WM (At least to me)...
Divas (in stereotypical sense) are not high spirited, they are hard to control because they are egoistic. Many in the same stereotypical view suffer from depression (low spirits)... Also the dilemma is easy to solve, is she bringing in 10x more than she could as a whore after you break her? The idea of the game is to run a business and gain territory control, unless that changes in the patch as well, pampering unruly girls should have a point (good rewards in sense of better playing costumers and/or better income from girl in question).
Sorry for being pain in the ass but I think we should figure out what spirit/spirits mean for the patch: Even if we say, English be damned and use energy/enthusiasm as well as willfulness/defiance conflict of effects in game will hardly be resolved...
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I think we are having a linguistic problem more than a functionality problem. First off, spirits and spirit are the same thing. I know this because a person in high spirits, is full of spirit not spirits. they reference the same thing, which is a positive emotion/aura/feeling. (Im choosing to believe the application of spirit in WM is not the religious soul version of spirit) We cannot get much more specific than that because the word is purposely ambiguous.
The english language is full of words that have general definitions especially when dealing with complex ideas like emotions. Love is a perfect example. I Love my wife, son and mother yet i love my wife in a very different way than i love my son whom i love differently than my mother. rather than create new words for each type of love we leave it as is and come up with specific aspects of "Love" and define those. "Spirit" is the same way. Spirit is defined as a positive emotion/aura/feeling that a person has. this can be found in soldiers in high spirits or in a singer who is full of spirit on stage. People who have this high euphoria tend to be more courageous and vigorous but they are not in themselves definitions of "spirit".
Take yourself out of the WM universe and into RL for a minute for this example. Picture 2 girls who were abducted and sold into slavery. 1 girl was rescued after 3 days while the other girl was rescued after 3 years. how will their "spirits" differ? Id imagine that the girl rescued after 3 days, while still traumatic, will still be able to live a normal life afterward. The girl living that way for 3 years might be irreversibly damaged. Her "spirit", her positive emotion/aura/feeling may never return.
This is what i thought spirit in the game meant and why it decreased over time. happiness is variable from day to day but a girls spirit is more long term. High spirit makes me think the girl has hope. Thus the tie into rebellion. People who are in high spirits tend to be more chipper rather than a shell of a person. this is the tie into the customer related jobs. ultimately i feel spirit decreasing as a slave is how it should be. maybe to counter it free girls could have spirit increase.
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I think we are having a linguistic problem more than a functionality problem. First off, spirits and spirit are the same thing. I know this because a person in high spirits, is full of spirit not spirits. they reference the same thing, which is a positive emotion/aura/feeling. (Im choosing to believe the application of spirit in WM is not the religious soul version of spirit) We cannot get much more specific than that because the word is purposely ambiguous.
Not religious, no, neither is anyone suggesting that it means alcohol in WM. Your example has a flaw. Try to describe a person of low spirit but in high spirits and you might figure it out... They do not reference the same thing, one references to courage, a quality, a will to never give up and stand by your principles and stand your ground while other is a mood and emotional state. So here I just got very specific, try to find a flow in that logic if you like...
The english language is full of words that have general definitions especially when dealing with complex ideas like emotions. Love is a perfect example. I Love my wife, son and mother yet i love my wife in a very different way than i love my son whom i love differently than my mother. rather than create new words for each type of love we leave it as is and come up with specific aspects of "Love" and define those. "Spirit" is the same way. Spirit is defined as a positive emotion/aura/feeling that a person has. this can be found in soldiers in high spirits or in a singer who is full of spirit on stage. People who have this high euphoria tend to be more courageous and vigorous but they are not in themselves definitions of "spirit".
True, actually, you cannot tell what PCLove stat means for sure in WM, much less am I willing to try and add different love stats to the game... Love in WM can mean love as in husband, lover or love as in father figure or love as in idol and master and a load of other kinds of love... and in some cases in WM different Love would also mean different reaction of girl to interaction... but we're not debating that.
Take yourself out of the WM universe and into RL for a minute for this example. Picture 2 girls who were abducted and sold into slavery. 1 girl was rescued after 3 days while the other girl was rescued after 3 years. how will their "spirits" differ? Id imagine that the girl rescued after 3 days, while still traumatic, will still be able to live a normal life afterward. The girl living that way for 3 years might be irreversibly damaged. Her "spirit", her positive emotion/aura/feeling may never return.
Interesting, when slavery was abolished, you actually think that slaves who'd been liberated after many years of captivity were incapable of of having positive emotions/aura/feelings? I am not even sure how to respond to that, other than differentiate one more time on the difference between spirit and spirits. Imagine girl's spirit was broken, she lost a will to fight/escape and submitted, you think that she can no longer be in high spirits? That is ridiculous, a guy she likes gave her a compliment, her child took a first step, she just woke up on the right side of the bed and she is sulking? I am not sure what does through your mind if you think slaves are only capable of being sad once they submitted...
The thing and I am repeating myself... is that strong spirit cannot be broken quickly while high spirits can change in about 2 seconds (girls tend to have moodswings). That has a very direct impact on the game and it's programming and that is what we're discussing. I am not saying that singing with spirit for example is not a valid saying, I am saying that it means singing with vigor and not signing in a good mood (althou those in this particular case go together more often than not).
This is what i thought spirit in the game meant and why it decreased over time. happiness is variable from day to day but a girls spirit is more long term. High spirit makes me think the girl has hope. Thus the tie into rebellion. People who are in high spirits tend to be more chipper rather than a shell of a person. this is the tie into the customer related jobs. ultimately i feel spirit decreasing as a slave is how it should be. maybe to counter it free girls could have spirit increase.
Spirit IS longterm, happiness can be both long and short term. Basically all of your girls are captive as they cannot leave freely (you're guarding their escape, slave or not) so I am not sure why you believe that a girl of a strong spirit would be chipper under this circumstances... also it is absolute BS that a girl with broken spirit is a shell of a person, you want real world, think North Korea, whole country is practically enslaved, you think people there never laugh or have never been in a good mood?
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*cough* anyway... moving on.
This was actually very wise :)
They will also be better at certain jobs where their energy/enthusiasm is an asset, for example and especially the singer.
If there's any job that will be able to be used to lower spirit, I would say it's the Customer Service job. If there's anything that will suck the life and soul right out of you, it's that...
Still a request:
Please consider making girls happiness decrease from CS job. Singer makes sense in more ways than one, maybe some other jobs as well.
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just a quick point, this game dosent only have slaves AND you can pay your workers.
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just a quick point, this game dosent only have slaves AND you can pay your workers.
Who said it only had slaves? Captivity and enslavement are somewhat different but girl CANNOT leave and NEVER even asks for permission to leave, they run away... that means they are being forced and being held captive. Do you have another view on the matter?
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to be honest if you managed to get a non slave unhappy enough to run away you deserve it
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to be honest if you managed to get a non slave unhappy enough to run away you deserve it
I am not sure what triggers runaway but I am fairly sure that happiness is not the only stat as I've had girls close to 100 happiness running away without any good reason. That might have been in older versions thou...
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must have been, the only girl i have ever had run away was in EX, i had no security and i tryed to brand a girl into a slave she got away ofc. apart from that i guess im just a good master 8)
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I am not sure what triggers runaway but I am fairly sure that happiness is not the only stat as I've had girls close to 100 happiness running away without any good reason. That might have been in older versions thou...
Just from looking it seem that the more days they are unhappy is the bigger the chance of them running away. Seem unhappiness is the only stat that plays into unless I'm missing something. That said do non slaves runaway also? I think they do which don't seem right shouldn't a non slave just quit?
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Just from looking it seem that the more days they are unhappy is the bigger the chance of them running away. Seem unhappiness is the only stat that plays into unless I'm missing something. That said do non slaves runaway also? I think they do which don't seem right shouldn't a non slave just quit?
Yeah, I remembered why they were running away. On vanilla items list I couldn't get cure for drug for a while or otherwise simply did not notice that one of the girls coming in drugged (gets harder when you have a few hundred)... it is entirely possible then.
And your point is more than valid, a non slave should have the ability to quit and be more demanding of particular jobs that they like than normal slaves. That would be one of those obvious improvement I like so much :D
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And your point is more than valid, a non slave should have the ability to quit and be more demanding of particular jobs that they like than normal slaves. That would be one of those obvious improvement I like so much :D
I agree non slaves should quit instead of running away and should be more demanding of jobs. I know for a fact that I'll be making it to where non slaves quit instead of running away. Making them more demanding is something for later on. Akia is handling most of the girl changes though so maybe he will add that while I work on new places and such.
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Again i think we are having a linguistic issue rather than a functionality issue.
@Xela "Try to describe a person of low spirit but in high spirits"
People who have high spirit tend to display happiness, courage, cheer, ect. These things are fleeting however as a person with high spirit can also be sad, cowardly, gloomy and ect. and it works in vice versa with low spirit. The thing is there IS a mechanic in the game that shows this. Happiness. Happiness is ever changing ea turn either with work, assault, or candy. It always changes and and can do so quickly. Now you can make the arguement that it is not what Happiness is or what it means, BUT the mechanic you describe repeatedly as "high spirits" i believe is the same mechanic as happiness in the game. so there is an ingame working of high/low happiness paired with high/low spirit.
"Love in WM... but we're not debating that."
Neither was I. my example was completely out of WM context. I wanted to show the arbitrary nature of the the word love and compare it to the word spirit.
to me the spirit mechanic reminds me of the Sex Skills mechanic. Heres what i mean...
Spirit Sex Skills
Courage Oral
Cheer Anal
Happiness Group
Spirit is all of those things listed under it as are Sex skills all of its own. the difference is the sex skills are actually divided up with seperate functions with in the game while spirit is not. It is kept whole and used when any of those qualities below are needed for game mechanics. Courage for rebelliousness? use spirit. Cheer for bar jobs? use spirit. Happiness is in the game but im not sure if its tied to spirit thou im sure it is. im not saying spirit needs to be divided up, just showing the current way it works. then again maybe it does.
Regarding all of the slavery stuff, you took what i said to the extreme. of course slaves were not all shells of themselves. people can and do recover but as a person who works in the medical field I can personally attest to the mental scarring that occurs after traumatic events and i stand by what i said. 3 days v 3 years the patient will have a vastly different recovery road. you said spirit is a long term stat so it takes a long time to break and a long time to repair. people after these events can still be happy and laugh but in WM terms that is Happiness, not spirit. Low spirit should make happiness hits larger if we going for realism. (not sure if that is how it works in game. just throwing that out there)
PS. after rereading my post my tone maybe a bit rough but i actually enjoy the debate. its late and im sure fatigue played into it
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People who have high spirit tend to display happiness, courage, cheer, ect.
For the love of god, you can keep making sh!t up in English as much as you please. BUT: Yours is a FALSE statement. People in High Spirits are happy and cheerful.
This is what you mean:
6 spirits [plural] : feelings of happiness or unhappiness
▪ Spirits were low [=people were unhappy] after our team lost again. ▪ We need to do something to lift your spirits. [=to make you feel better/happier] ▪ It's hard work, but try to keep your spirits up. [=keep a happy and positive attitude] ▪ We were all in high spirits [=happy, cheerful] after the game. ▪ She was in low spirits. [=she was unhappy] ▪ He's still in the hospital, but he's in good spirits. [=happy and positive] — see also high-spirited (http://www.learnersdictionary.com/search/high-spirited), low-spirited (http://www.learnersdictionary.com/search/low-spirited)
In order to mean that it has to be in PLURAL!
This is what I mean:
The English word spirit comes from the Latin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin) spiritus, meaning "breath (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breath)", but also "spirit, soul, courage, vigor",
4 a : a desire or determination to do something [count] â–ª His many disappointments never broke his spirit. [=never took away his desire to succeed] â–ª He has a strong fighting spirit. [noncount] â–ª She's a good athlete with a lot of skill and spirit.
and similar meanings I have written in previous posts.
Again i think we are having a linguistic issue rather than a functionality issue.
I have described how this is a functionality issue, quote that and counter with argument, not going to repeat myself again...
Now you can make the arguement that it is not what Happiness is or what it means, BUT the mechanic you describe repeatedly as "high spirits" i believe is the same mechanic as happiness in the game. so there is an ingame working of high/low happiness paired with high/low spirit.
Never described a mechanic 'high spirits', it is a lot like happiness in WM I suppose. Simply means that we don't need Spirit in a sense of 'spirits'.
"Love in WM... but we're not debating that."
Neither was I. my example was completely out of WM context. I wanted to show the arbitrary nature of the the word love and compare it to the word spirit.
And I countered your example by stating that love is similar in meaning while spirit and spirits are not or at least not as similar... Quote and try to see how your answer resonates with previous argument.
to me the spirit mechanic reminds me of the Sex Skills mechanic. Heres what i mean...
Spirit Sex Skills
Courage Oral
Cheer Anal
Happiness Group
Spirit is all of those things listed under it as are Sex skills all of its own. the difference is the sex skills are actually divided up with seperate functions with in the game while spirit is not. It is kept whole and used when any of those qualities below are needed for game mechanics. Courage for rebelliousness? use spirit. Cheer for bar jobs? use spirit. Happiness is in the game but im not sure if its tied to spirit thou im sure it is. im not saying spirit needs to be divided up, just showing the current way it works. then again maybe it does.
I do not understand what you're trying to say here, at least not constructively.
Take yourself out of the WM universe and into RL for a minute for this example. Picture 2 girls who were abducted and sold into slavery. 1 girl was rescued after 3 days while the other girl was rescued after 3 years. how will their "spirits" differ? Id imagine that the girl rescued after 3 days, while still traumatic, will still be able to live a normal life afterward. The girl living that way for 3 years might be irreversibly damaged. Her "spirit", her positive emotion/aura/feeling may never return.
This is what i thought spirit in the game meant and why it decreased over time. happiness is variable from day to day but a girls spirit is more long term. High spirit makes me think the girl has hope. Thus the tie into rebellion. People who are in high spirits tend to be more chipper rather than a shell of a person. this is the tie into the customer related jobs. ultimately i feel spirit decreasing as a slave is how it should be. maybe to counter it free girls could have spirit increase.
Regarding all of the slavery stuff, you took what i said to the extreme. of course slaves were not all shells of themselves. people can and do recover but as a person who works in the medical field I can personally attest to the mental scarring that occurs after traumatic events and i stand by what i said. 3 days v 3 years the patient will have a vastly different recovery road. you said spirit is a long term stat so it takes a long time to break and a long time to repair. people after these events can still be happy and laugh but in WM terms that is Happiness, not spirit. Low spirit should make happiness hits larger if we going for realism. (not sure if that is how it works in game. just throwing that out there)
Not sure what we are debating here either. You're the one who threw words like shell and irreversibly damaged. It's all relative, one can get really creative and inflect irreversible damage mentally even in 3 days. All of that is irrelevant for WM, we need to come to some kind of conclusion on what spirit stat should do in WM... Since you are comparing it's 'spirits' meaning to Happiness, why not simply use it in my context...
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what about renaming "Spirit" to something more understandable?
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options;
character, temperament, temper, persona, disposition, mind, will, will-power, attitude, bent, inclination, energy, ardor, desire, impetus, drive, urge, eagerness, zest, zeal, zealousness, fire, passion(s), enthusiasm, motivation, mettle, resolution
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options;
character, temperament, temper, persona, disposition, mind, will, will-power, attitude, bent, inclination, energy, ardor, desire, impetus, drive, urge, eagerness, zest, zeal, zealousness, fire, passion(s), enthusiasm, motivation, mettle, resolution
LoL, we'll spent rest of your days arguing what energy, will and character mean :D
I think we're fine, Spirit makes sense in WM, maybe some tweaking is required thou. I am arguing cause we're making a game as well and it's a good practice to figure out how players view WM and stats in WM.
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well to be honest i was SERIOUSLY confused about spirit, i dident know what it ment untill aika explained about it since than i realised it a common thing is games like this. but its commonly called other things; temperamnet , will-power, will, drive and enthusiasm seem to be most common.
that stat is one debate due to the LARGE amount of things that need to be taken into account for it, personaly Spirit should take a huge amount of info from the girls traits being enthisuastic, cheerfulla nd other things should increse it but having "BROKEN WILL" should lock it on 0, rather than have it as a normal stats i think it should be purely done by traits.
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Heh interesting debate, but getting a little bogged down in semantics now :P so how about a quick attempt to change the topic? -
I agree non slaves should quit instead of running away and should be more demanding of jobs.
I also agree that quitting rather than running away makes sense for the free girls, but there are a few things that bother me with the current way it plays out generally for free girls in WM - the backstory to a girl you meet in town deciding to come work for you is that she's destitute and therefore desperate, so you put her to work in your brothel. Even on vanilla WM, I'd usually have new girls spend time training, and covering the non-sex jobs when they first start, purely because their sex stats are usually crap, and yet the girls would quite often refuse to work. A broke, desperate girl rebelling at being asked to do some light cleaning work that I'm paying her for? erm wut? The being broke as motivation also doesn't really work later on, when a couple of months of waitressing seems to give the free girls enough money to buy more upgrades than I, the brothel owner can afford!
So, I'm not sure if this is practical, achievable or whatever, just proposing it in terms of a little added realism, but what about putting in some real financial pressures, and using that to drive free girls' rebelliousness? For example, add a daily living cost for every girl - say 5 gold per slave girl (paid by you the owner) and 20 gold for a free girl (paid by the girl herself). When she's poor (less gold than the price of a new pair of shoes maybe), then she has a big modifier to reducing rebelliousness - so she's likely to do even the jobs she hates, as she really needs the money. Past that level her rebelliousness is back to normal until she reaches another gold threshold (or unless she drops back to poor after buying those new shoes she wanted!) - where she's now got enough saved up from working for you that she maybe starts to think she doesn't need to work for you any longer. At that level she's much more likely to quit if you ask her to do something she doesn't want to - and PCLove and whatever stat is being used for job satisfaction become much more important. If that affects game balance too much by making all the free girls quit after a few months, then maybe change the starting gold for free girls - can it be negative? If so, then have free girls join you with debts to pay off - same deal, they're initially forced to do whatever you want them to by financial pressures, but you're going to have to take account of what they like/don't like doing, or sooner or later they will turn on you and tell you just where you can stick your job! (Or of course you can just go for the torture/enslave route or the love route to get them compliant enough)
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Heh interesting debate, but getting a little bogged down in semantics now :P so how about a quick attempt to change the topic? -I also agree that quitting rather than running away makes sense for the free girls, but there are a few things that bother me with the current way it plays out generally for free girls in WM - the backstory to a girl you meet in town deciding to come work for you is that she's destitute and therefore desperate, so you put her to work in your brothel. Even on vanilla WM, I'd usually have new girls spend time training, and covering the non-sex jobs when they first start, purely because their sex stats are usually crap, and yet the girls would quite often refuse to work. A broke, desperate girl rebelling at being asked to do some light cleaning work that I'm paying her for? erm wut? The being broke as motivation also doesn't really work later on, when a couple of months of waitressing seems to give the free girls enough money to buy more upgrades than I, the brothel owner can afford!
So, I'm not sure if this is practical, achievable or whatever, just proposing it in terms of a little added realism, but what about putting in some real financial pressures, and using that to drive free girls' rebelliousness? For example, add a daily living cost for every girl - say 5 gold per slave girl (paid by you the owner) and 20 gold for a free girl (paid by the girl herself). When she's poor (less gold than the price of a new pair of shoes maybe), then she has a big modifier to reducing rebelliousness - so she's likely to do even the jobs she hates, as she really needs the money. Past that level her rebelliousness is back to normal until she reaches another gold threshold (or unless she drops back to poor after buying those new shoes she wanted!) - where she's now got enough saved up from working for you that she maybe starts to think she doesn't need to work for you any longer. At that level she's much more likely to quit if you ask her to do something she doesn't want to - and PCLove and whatever stat is being used for job satisfaction become much more important. If that affects game balance too much by making all the free girls quit after a few months, then maybe change the starting gold for free girls - can it be negative? If so, then have free girls join you with debts to pay off - same deal, they're initially forced to do whatever you want them to by financial pressures, but you're going to have to take account of what they like/don't like doing, or sooner or later they will turn on you and tell you just where you can stick your job! (Or of course you can just go for the torture/enslave route or the love route to get them compliant enough)
You also kidnap girls, also get them from catacombs, easier to edit girlmeet script if you ask me. And girls rarely cost you more than they bring in, especially in vanilla.
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On refusing to do a job:
I find it strange that a girl with Happiness 100 and Obedience 100 should ever rebel when asked to do a non-sex job, even if her spirit and confidence are 100.
I also find it strange that girls start at Happiness 100 when they're slaves, captured, kidnapped, given by dad or destitute.
I think Happiness should start at 50, so it has room to be improved which would reduce rebelliousness instead of just scolding.
Rebelliousness could be something like:
Base rebelliousness = Spirit +Confidence -Obedience -Happiness
These could be weighted (e.g. Obedience x 1.5) to tweak the result.
There could be adjustments for:
job desirability (e.g. whore= +10 rebel) - this can also be affected by whethe a girl likes/dislikes a job
traits (e.g. nympho in sex job is -10 rebel, shy entertainer is +5 rebel)
high PCLove or PCFear
other stuff like a 'destitution' modifier.
Even without reducing spirit or confidence, making the girl happier or matching her job with her traits will make her more likely to obey.
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On refusing to do a job:
I find it strange that a girl with Happiness 100 and Obedience 100 should ever rebel when asked to do a non-sex job, even if her spirit and confidence are 100.
I also find it strange that girls start at Happiness 100 when they're slaves, captured, kidnapped, given by dad or destitute.
I think Happiness should start at 50, so it has room to be improved which would reduce rebelliousness instead of just scolding.
Rebelliousness could be something like:
Base rebelliousness = Spirit +Confidence -Obedience -Happiness
These could be weighted (e.g. Obedience x 1.5) to tweak the result.
There could be adjustments for:
job desirability (e.g. whore= +10 rebel) - this can also be affected by whethe a girl likes/dislikes a job
traits (e.g. nympho in sex job is -10 rebel, shy entertainer is +5 rebel)
high PCLove or PCFear
other stuff like a 'destitution' modifier.
Even without reducing spirit or confidence, making the girl happier or matching her job with her traits will make her more likely to obey.
Wow... a really good post. This is something to consider.
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thats a good point, never thought of it untill now. seems weird that you can make her have sex with stragers on a luck roll but she wont mop the floor on an unlucky one...
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Another topic... Drugs. They should effect health, not happiness. That is something that is poorly designed.
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If addict girl doesn't have enough money to buy them, she definitely will be unhappy.
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Are there any girl packs that work with the latest version? Failing that are there any ways to modify existing packs to work. Forgive my ignorance please.
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Are there any girl packs that work with the latest version? Failing that are there any ways to modify existing packs to work. Forgive my ignorance please.
crazy made two arena girls for his version. As far as I know, no packs are made for new patches yet...
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I'm part way through editing the girlsx files from all the WM EX packs I downloaded - removing all the additional traits that thefuture added (lv1 exhibitionist, average boobs, basic magic, etc), and replacing Bestiality with OralSex - it doesn't take that long (or wouldn't if I hadn't downloaded practically every single WM EX GPAC anyway!) and I think they should work ok - are those tweaks enough to get a WM EX GPAC working with this patch or is there something else I should edit?
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I'm part way through editing the girlsx files from all the WM EX packs I downloaded - removing all the additional traits that thefuture added (lv1 exhibitionist, average boobs, basic magic, etc), and replacing Bestiality with OralSex - it doesn't take that long (or wouldn't if I hadn't downloaded practically every single WM EX GPAC anyway!) and I think they should work ok - are those tweaks enough to get a WM EX GPAC working with this patch or is there something else I should edit?
I would wait a bit until patches are more or less finished. Some traits can be added, stats change, you'll have to edit the whole thing again...
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as far as i can tell juts open the girlsx file and change bestiality to oral. should work i guess...
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DA FUCK???? i just asked one of my girls to have sex with another girl GUESS WHAT?!?!? SHE GOT FUCKN PREGNANT!!!
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DA FUCK? ??? i just asked one of my girls to have sex with another girl GUESS WHAT?!?!? SHE GOT FUCKN PREGNANT!!!
Roflmao, she'll have a penguin for a child... Most of those new 'interactions' are copied from 'Have sex with her', so it actually makes sense, wait until coders make new options for scripting.
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Is editing the files myself as simple as opening the .girlsx files in notepad and removing unused trait lines completely? If so I think you should know that I have endless patience.
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yes its should be that easy
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Is editing the files myself as simple as opening the .girlsx files in notepad and removing unused trait lines completely? If so I think you should know that I have endless patience.
It is but clear with Aika first, no point in doing it unless he gives a green light or you might have to do it over and over again.
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hmm ok after playing around for 1 and a half houres i seem to have found 0 ways to increse spirit...
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I'm part way through editing the girlsx files from all the WM EX packs I downloaded - removing all the additional traits that thefuture added (lv1 exhibitionist, average boobs, basic magic, etc), and replacing Bestiality with OralSex - it doesn't take that long (or wouldn't if I hadn't downloaded practically every single WM EX GPAC anyway!) and I think they should work ok - are those tweaks enough to get a WM EX GPAC working with this patch or is there something else I should edit?
Not really... you also need to modify the girls' stats to balance them with the other girls. Random girls should have their minimums and maximums set to have an average of 20 in their stats, and their maximums should average 40, except beauty which should average 60 and have a maximum of 80. Their skill minimums and maximums should give them an average of 10 in their skills, with an average maximum of 30. This is all before positive and negative traits are considered.
Make sure you remove any trait not listed in the coretraits.traits file for my version. They will cause errors in the game. Also, spelling and capitalization counts. Make sure you use the same case and spelling as what is in the coretraits file.
Once a girlsx or rgirlsx file has been edited to be 'valid' for my version, it can be loaded in the girls editor that comes with my version. It can be found in Docs&Tools\Character & Item Editor, named WMEdit (Thank GonDra for making the girls editor compatible with this). It also might just be easier to delete the existing girls and random girls files, and create them from scratch in the girls editor.
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aika any chance you could explain how to increse spirit and confidence? i cant find anything :/
EDIT:got bored and checked items:
there are 11 negative items 6 positive, if you equip all positive items you get:
5 Kung-foo shoes - boots
10 mistress boots - boots ! BEST
5 oiren dress - dress
5 slave rags - dress
5 Tiger leotard -dress
25 wings of lilith - dress ! BEST
resulting in a measly bonus of 35 spirit.
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aika any chance you could explain how to increse spirit and confidence? i cant find anything :/
EDIT:got bored and checked items:
there are 11 negative items 6 positive, if you equip all positive items you get:
5 Kung-foo shoes - boots
10 mistress boots - boots ! BEST
5 oiren dress - dress
5 slave rags - dress
5 Tiger leotard -dress
25 wings of lilith - dress ! BEST
resulting in a measly bonus of 35 spirit.
I have been following the game for a while, and as it stands, the items are the only way to increase spirit or confidence, while even normal actions (interactions, the occasional job, etc.) will whittle away at them over time. That is the problem I was talking about in previous posts with regards to using those stats as job performance metrics.
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In the base game, you would either torture the girl, or interact with her. Some of the talk options increased/decreased spirit. I forget which action corresponds to which effect. If you are curious, pull up the interact script in the script editor to figure it out.
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In the base game, you would either torture the girl, or interact with her. Some of the talk options increased/decreased spirit. I forget which action corresponds to which effect. If you are curious, pull up the interact script in the script editor to figure it out.
awsome thanks! it seems the only thing that increses spirit is having a threesome...WHY????
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woo! after weeks of having threesoms with my matron spirit FINALY went to 1
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Once stuff gets figured out, I may start scripting again. Some folks have taken my base scripts and exploded with them...but I think they might be getting a bit unwieldy at this point. One of the key, basic things I wanted to do was add a 'reward' option, aside from scold. Where you could praise or compliment, to boost love and spirit/confidence.
I also like the idea of another stat called 'Loyalty' that could figure into rebellion, separate from obedience. A girl could be disobedient, but loyal enough to still help. Though that's encompassed somewhat by PCLove.
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Once stuff gets figured out, I may start scripting again. Some folks have taken my base scripts and exploded with them...but I think they might be getting a bit unwieldy at this point. One of the key, basic things I wanted to do was add a 'reward' option, aside from scold. Where you could praise or compliment, to boost love and spirit/confidence.
I also like the idea of another stat called 'Loyalty' that could figure into rebellion, separate from obedience. A girl could be disobedient, but loyal enough to still help. Though that's encompassed somewhat by PCLove.
yes i was asing about this a few pages back, there is no realy good way or "praising" your slave...
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awsome thanks! it seems the only thing that increses spirit is having a threesome...WHY? ???
What? Having a threesome increases spirit? I need to go in and fix that... :P
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What? Having a threesome increases spirit? I need to go in and fix that... :P
oooook, i just found one of my girls with 0 confidence 0 obedience and 0 spirit AND -40 rebeliousness
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and my matron now has 0 confidence 48 obedience and 100 spirit with -50 rebeliousness
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Ok, before anyone gets on me for my last comment... EVERYTHING that increases or decreases a girl's stats or skills, happiness, mood, or etc. is under review, including scripts, weekly updates, traits, items, and especially the jobs. There will be a major update in Whoremaster MMX, with all the changes I make applied all at once. I don't want to half-ass this release, when it's all ready to go it will all be released at the same time.
For those of you that make girl packs, don't worry about new traits being added... for now. The review I'm doing is only evaluating existing traits. I will not be removing any existing traits, they will just be rebalanced. So feel free to start releasing those girl packs.
and my matron now has 0 confidence 48 obedience and 100 spirit with -50 rebeliousness
Mind fucked or broken will?
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oic broken will was hidden in there awsome.
for anyone who is using threesome to increse spirit DONT BOTHER due to EVERY FUCKING THING IN THE FUCKING GAME reducing it as soon as you look away from your slave spirit drops at HUGE rates, i just finished getting my matron to 100 and 2 weeks later its at 50...
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oh aika did you look at the pics i found a few pages back?
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ahahahahahahha! i just had a girl i tortured escape I HAVE 20358 fucking security fucking ninja slave????
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Thanks for outlining the stats for the random girls Aika, that helped a lot. Got any pointers for the Named characters?
Also the girl Yukari Takeba doesn't work in the editor unless you change all the ' that appear in the file to " except the one in her description used in the word doesn't. Having typed that sentence i now realise how difficult it is to try and quote something clearly without using quotation marks in the explanation ...
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Also the girl Yukari Takeba doesn't work in the editor unless you change all the ' that appear in the file to " except the one in her description used in the word doesn't. Having typed that sentence i now realise how difficult it is to try and quote something clearly without using quotation marks in the explanation ...
The most recent patch fixes her file. Yes, you're right, the ' in doesn't in her description screws things up.
oh aika did you look at the pics i found a few pages back?
Haven't had a chance to really look at them, I'm not at my home computer.
oic broken will was hidden in there awsome.
for anyone who is using threesome to increse spirit DONT BOTHER due to EVERY FUCKING THING IN THE FUCKING GAME reducing it as soon as you look away from your slave spirit drops at HUGE rates, i just finished getting my matron to 100 and 2 weeks later its at 50...
Sounds like the spirit increases from a threesome only increases the temporary stat. Increasing temporary stats has those temp stats ebb away weekly, back down to the girl's original value for the stat. I'll take a look at things when I get back to my home computer.
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A balance problem I see on jobs is a distortion caused by customers using multiple services while the girls handle very few customers.
So if a bar area gets 30 customers, a possible result might be:
25 use the bar
15 use the waitresses
15 use the singer
If each girl handles 1-4 customers, you'd need something like 6 barmaids, 4 waitresses and 4 singers to leave few 'unhandled customers' for customer service to take care of. A 'real' bar with 30 customers might have 1 or 2 barmaids, 2 waitresses and one singer and do quite well on handling the crowd.
What I'd suggest is that jobs have a 'capacity' and 'interesting outcomes'. Capacity is the number of customers a job handles regardless of the girl's stats/skills/traits. Interesting outcomes include the current calculations for number of customers handled and pay and also could include trait based positive or negative results.
So, maybe a bartender has a capacity of 15 and two barmaids can 'handle' the 25 customers with some excess capacity.
Barmaid 1 has skill/stats that might yield interesting outcomes of 2 happy customers (currently coded result that yields pay and improves customer happiness) and 1 unhappy customer (maybe her yandere trait kicked in)
Barmaid 2 has better skill/stats that might yield an outcome of 3 happy customers and no unhappy customers.
The other 14 customers are handled, but without any 'interesting outcomes' and have no effect on any brothel stats like customer happiness.
If there was too little capacity by having only one bartender, the 'unhandled' customers might have a percentage be unhappy and be bumped to customer service. Customer service gets 100% of unhappy outcomes and a percentage of unhandled customers. Any of these customers not handled successfuly by a customer service girl have an impact on customer happiness and maybe cause a higher percentage of security problems.
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I've noticed that the random girls that I made for this mod aren't following the "random girls pick a profile pic and stick with it rule". Is there some trick that I need to apply to my girls packs to address this? Or is the cause still somewhat mysterious?
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I've noticed that the random girls that I made for this mod aren't following the "random girls pick a profile pic and stick with it rule". Is there some trick that I need to apply to my girls packs to address this? Or is the cause still somewhat mysterious?
You gotta open them in notepad or something like that and do this
NewRandom="Yes" <--------- that right there just add that above if its human or catacombs
Human="Yes"
Catacomb="No">
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You gotta open them in notepad or something like that and do this
NewRandom="Yes" <--------- that right there just add that above if its human or catacombs
Human="Yes"
Catacomb="No">
This.
Also, there is a bug plaguing both Crazy's and my mods. If a random girl is pregnant and has more than 1 pregnant picture, she will quickly cycle through all her pregnant pictures on the turn summary report. I've hammered at this bug in my mod, but it refuses to be fixed. The only fix for now is to only have one pregnant picture in girl packs.
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Cools. I'll make the appropriate updates to my random girls the next time I release a girlsx file.
Also, there is a bug plaguing both Crazy's and my mods. If a random girl is pregnant and has more than 1 pregnant picture, she will quickly cycle through all her pregnant pictures on the turn summary report. I've hammered at this bug in my mod, but it refuses to be fixed. The only fix for now is to only have one pregnant picture in girl packs.
Ugh, that sounds nasty. Out of curiosity, does this extend to ALL preg pics or just profile pics? Either way I'll probably remove the offending preg pics from the default girl picture pack entirely and offer them as a seperate download with a disclaimer until this issue is fixed.
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I honestly don't know if the bug affects pregnant sex category pictures. I only know for sure it affects pregnant profile pictures on the turn summary report only (it works fine on the Girl Details and Girl Management page, for some odd reason). I've been working on other things, so if anyone can verify this and report on it it would be great.
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EDIT: i removed a few of the job files from the solution and it compiles now. Still curious what compiler you use though
Sorry if this has been asked before, spent half hour looking for the answer. How do I compile your source code, I tried using the included MSvisual studio solution files and I get errors talking about the picture categories you removed. Are you using another compiler? I was hoping to make a few small changes to suit my tastes while I wait for the balance fixes of MMX
1>------ Build started: Project: Whore Master, Configuration: Release Win32 ------
1>Build started 6/15/2012 12:45:48 PM.
1>InitializeBuildStatus:
1> Touching "Release\Whore Master.unsuccessfulbuild".
1>ClCompile:
1> WorkBar.cpp
1>WorkBar.cpp(110): error C2065: 'SKILL_BEASTIALITY' : undeclared identifier
1>WorkBar.cpp(111): error C2065: 'IMGTYPE_BEAST' : undeclared identifier
1> WorkBeastCapture.cpp
1>WorkBeastCapture.cpp(43): error C2039: 'WorkBeastCapture' : is not a member of 'cJobManager'
1> c:\users\chris weathers\downloads\wm\whoremasteraikasource\cJobManager.h(54) : see declaration of 'cJobManager'
1>WorkBeastCapture.cpp(46): error C3861: 'Preprocessing': identifier not found
1>WorkBeastCapture.cpp(102): error C2065: 'SKILL_BEASTIALITY' : undeclared identifier
1> WorkBeastCare.cpp
1>WorkBeastCare.cpp(43): error C2039: 'WorkBeastCare' : is not a member of 'cJobManager'
1> c:\users\chris weathers\downloads\wm\whoremasteraikasource\cJobManager.h(54) : see declaration of 'cJobManager'
1>WorkBeastCare.cpp(46): error C2065: 'ACTION_WORKCARING' : undeclared identifier
1>WorkBeastCare.cpp(46): error C3861: 'Preprocessing': identifier not found
1>WorkBeastCare.cpp(52): error C2065: 'ACTION_WORKCARING' : undeclared identifier
1>WorkBeastCare.cpp(59): error C2065: 'ACTION_WORKCARING' : undeclared identifier
1>WorkBeastCare.cpp(87): error C2065: 'SKILL_BEASTIALITY' : undeclared identifier
1>
1>Build FAILED.
1>
1>Time Elapsed 00:00:02.75
========== Build: 0 succeeded, 1 failed, 0 up-to-date, 0 skipped ==========
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I use Visual Studio 2010 express. It looks like some of the SLN and vcxproj files aren't updating with the changes to the files included in the build. As far as I can tell, you need to remove the WorkBar, cWorkCleaning, WorkFluffer, WorkBeastCapture, WorkBeastCarer, and WorkHall files, and add WorkCleaning (or just rename cWorkCleaning to WorkCleaning in the included files list, but I've never had much luck getting VS to do that) in order to get the code to compile right. I don't know why my file works, but then when anyone else loads the file (even myself when I transfer files to my laptop) it loses the changes in the included file list.
Edit: And it looks like you figured it out while I was researching the issue and writing the reply. Good job.
The source code in the first post doesn't actually have any of the changes I've made in any of the patches. I'll see about uploading some updated source.
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Thanks, I noticed some of the fixes were gone as I was doing a little rebalanceing of the jobs. I have the starting available jobs (haven't gotten to the strippers, sleaxzy, etc. yet) cause the girls to slowly get better at them (didn't make beauty increase though, left that for items) uses random dice rolls to slow down the skill and stat growth a little. So a girl working as a barmaid may suck at first, but after a few months will start to be pretty good at it.
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I've been working on a quite major change in the equipcombat and unequipcombat functions in preparation for planned changes to the job functions. The return values of these functions will be changed from Void to Boolean. Changing the return type to Boolean will allow me to give bonuses or penalties for the girls in certain jobs if they're wearing armor and weapons (Such as security girl without a weapon and armor get penalties, or just give a bonus if they are wearing weapon and armor... Waitresses, barmaids, and singers wearing armor having a chance to scare away customers, etc.)
The equipcombat function will check to make sure the girl is wearing a weapon or armor. If she is not wearing at least an armor and one weapon, the function returns false. The function returns true if the girl is wearing at least an armor and weapon, and attempts to equip the girl with her best (as determined by cost) armor and weapon if the configuration file allows automatic combat equipping.
The unequipcombat function will check to make sure the girl is NOT wearing any weapon or armor. If she is wearing any weapon or armor, the function returns false. If the configuration file allows automatic combat equipping, it will attempt to remove any weapon or armor the girl is wearing, and if it is allowed to do so it will return true. Girls with some certain, more aggressive traits may refuse to remove their weapons and armor.
At this point, I've done nothing short of a full rewrite of the two functions. Here's the code, for anyone that's interested.
cgirls.h around line 840:
bool EquipCombat(sGirl* girl); // girl makes sure best armor and weapons are equipped, ready for combat
bool UnequipCombat(sGirl* girl); // girl unequips armor and weapons, ready for brothel work or other non-aggressive jobs
cgirls.cpp starting around line 4100:
bool cGirls::EquipCombat(sGirl* girl)
{ // girl makes sure best armor and weapons are equipped, ready for combat.
// If this function finishes without the girl having at least an armor and one weapon, it returns false.
// First let's find out what's already equipped.
bool combatequips = false;
bool wearingArmor = false;
bool wearingWeap1 = false;
bool wearingWeap2 = false;
int Armor, Weap1, Weap2, oldArmor, oldWeap1, oldWeap2;
Armor = Weap1 = Weap2 = oldArmor = oldWeap1 = oldWeap2 = -1;
for(int i=0; i<40; i++)
{
if(girl->m_Inventory[i] != 0) // Is there something here?
{
sInventoryItem* curItem = girl->m_Inventory[i];
if((curItem->m_Type == INVWEAPON) || (curItem->m_Type == INVARMOR)) // Is it a weapon or armor?
combatequips = true; // She does have an armor or weapon in her inventory.
if((curItem->m_Type == INVWEAPON) && (girl->m_EquipedItems[i] != 0))
{ // I found a weapon that's already equipped.
if(wearingWeap1) // She's equipped with 2 weapons, and I already found the other.
{ // This is her second weapon.
wearingWeap2 = true;
Weap2 = oldWeap2 = i;
}
else
{ // This is her first weapon.
wearingWeap1 = true;
Weap1 = oldWeap1 = i;
}
}
if((curItem->m_Type == INVARMOR) && (girl->m_EquipedItems[i] != 0))
{ // I found the armor she has equipped.
wearingArmor = true;
Armor = oldArmor = i;
}
}
}
// If she doesn't have any armor or weapons in her inventory at all, nothing to do here.
if(!combatequips)
return false; // She's obviously not wearing an armor and one weapon.
cConfig cfg; // We'll store the config file values for later.
// The next bit assumes the cost of Weap1 is higher than the cost of Weap2. So...
if(wearingWeap1 && wearingWeap2)
{
if(girl->m_Inventory[Weap2]->m_Cost > girl->m_Inventory[Weap1]->m_Cost)
{
int temp;
temp = Weap1;
Weap1 = Weap2;
Weap2 = temp;
oldWeap1 = Weap1;
oldWeap2 = Weap2;
}
}
// Look at each item.
for(int i=0; i<40; i++)
{
if((girl->m_Inventory[i] != 0) && (girl->m_EquipedItems[i] = 0)) // Is it an item that's not equipped?
{
if(girl->m_Inventory[i]->m_Type == INVWEAPON) // Is it a weapon?
{
if(Weap1 != -1) // Does she already have one weapon?
{ //She already has one weapon.
if(girl->m_Inventory[i]->m_Cost > girl->m_Inventory[Weap1]->m_Cost) // Is this weapon better?
{ //This weapon is better. Switch the weapon already here to her second weapon, and use this weapon here.
Weap2 = Weap1;
Weap1 = i;
}
else
{ //The weapon she has here already is better. Look at her second weapon
if(Weap2 != -1) // Does she even have a second weapon?
{ //She already has a second weapon.
if(girl->m_Inventory[i]->m_Cost > girl->m_Inventory[Weap2]->m_Cost) // Is this weapon better?
Weap2 = i; // Yes. Use it.
}
else // She doesn't have a second weapon.
Weap2 = i; // Use this one.
}
}
else // She doesn't have any weapon.
Weap1 = i; // Use this one.
// If we made it here without changing weapons, both weapons she's wearing already are better.
}
if(girl->m_Inventory[i]->m_Type == INVARMOR) // Is it armor?
{
if(Armor != -1) // Is she already wearing any armor?
{ // She is wearing armor.
if(girl->m_Inventory[i]->m_Cost > girl->m_Inventory[Armor]->m_Cost) // Is this better?
Armor = i; // Yes. Use it.
}
else // She is not wearing armor.
Armor = i; // Use this.
// If we made it here without changing armor, the armor she's wearing is better.
}
}
}
// If she's not already wearing an armor and one weapon, and the configuration file doesn't allow autoequipping,
// then we need to end the function here. She isn't wearing an armor and at least one weapon, so returns false.
if(!wearingArmor && !wearingWeap1 && !cfg.items.auto_combat_equip())
return false;
// if she's retarded, she might refuse or forget
int refusal = 0;
int refused = false;
if(girl->has_trait("Retarded"))
refusal += 30;
if(g_Dice.percent(refusal))
refused = true;
// If we're changing her armor
if(Armor != oldArmor)
{
if(cfg.items.auto_combat_equip()) // Are we allowed to do this?
{
if (!refused) // Did the girl refuse?
{
if(wearingArmor) // If she's not wearing armor, there's nothing to unequip.
g_InvManager.Unequip(girl, oldArmor);
g_InvManager.Equip(girl, Armor, false); // Put on her best armor.
wearingArmor = true;
}
}
}
// If we're changing her first weapon
if(Weap1 != oldWeap1)
{
if(cfg.items.auto_combat_equip()) // Are we allowed to do this?
{
if(!refused) // Did the girl refuse?
{
if(wearingWeap1) // If she's not using a first weapon, there's nothing to unequip.
g_InvManager.Unequip(girl, oldWeap1);
g_InvManager.Equip(girl, Weap1, false); // Put on her best weapon.
wearingWeap1 = true;
}
}
}
// If we're changing her second weapon
if(Weap2 != oldWeap2)
{
if(cfg.items.auto_combat_equip()) // Are we allowed to do this?
{
if(!refused) // Did the girl refuse?
{
if(wearingWeap2) // If she's not using a second weapon, there's nothing to unequip.
g_InvManager.Unequip(girl, oldWeap2);
g_InvManager.Equip(girl, Weap2, false); // Put on her second best weapon.
wearingWeap2 = true;
}
}
}
/* We need to check again to see if she's wearing a weapon and armor. I'm not sure if she
* can actually make it here without having an armor and one weapon equipped, so this may
* just be a sanity check.
*/
if(!wearingArmor || !wearingWeap1)
return false;
return true; // If we made it here, she's at least wearing an armor and one weapon.
}
bool cGirls::UnequipCombat(sGirl* girl)
{ // girl unequips armor and weapons, ready for brothel work or other non-aggressive jobs
// First find out if she's wearing any in the first place
bool combatequips = false;
bool hasweaponorarmor = false;
for(int i=0; i<40; i++)
{
if(girl->m_Inventory != 0)
{ // I found an item. What is it?
sInventoryItem* curItem = girl->m_Inventory[i];
if ((curItem->m_Type == INVWEAPON) || (curItem->m_Type == INVARMOR)) // Is it weapon or armor?
{
hasweaponorarmor = true;
if(girl->m_EquipedItems != 0) // Is it equipped?
combatequips = true;
}
}
}
// If she doesn't have any armor or weapons, she's obviously not wearing any. Nothing to do here.
if(!hasweaponorarmor)
return true;
cConfig cfg; // Look at the configuration file, store values for later.
// if she's a really rough or crazy bitch, she might just keep combat gear equipped
int refusal = 0;
if(combatequips) // Is the crazy bitch even wearing anything?
{
if(girl->has_trait("Aggressive"))
refusal += 30;
if(girl->has_trait("Yandere"))
refusal += 30;
if(girl->has_trait("Twisted"))
refusal += 30;
if(girl->has_trait("Retarded"))
refusal += 30;
if(g_Dice.percent(refusal))
return false;
}
for(int i=0; i<40; i++)
{
if((girl->m_Inventory != 0) && (girl->m_EquipedItems[i] != 0))
{ // I found an equipped item.
sInventoryItem* curItem = girl->m_Inventory[i];
if(curItem->m_Type == INVWEAPON || curItem->m_Type == INVARMOR) // Is it armor or weapon?
{ // Yes, it's an equipped armor or weapon.
if(cfg.items.auto_combat_equip()) // Am I allowed to change this?
g_InvManager.Unequip(girl, i); // Yes, take it off.
else
return false; // I can't take it off. She'll be wearing armor or weapon after this function ends.
}
}
}
return true;
}
Edit: A few tweaks to the code, I think I've got it watertight now.
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New changes coming down the line:
-If a girl enjoys her job, she may gain or lose traits.
-A girl may do a better or worse job if she's equipped with weapons, depending on the nature of the job (Barmaids, for example, may scare away customers).
-Yandere's may now attack customers while doing any job, not just whore jobs.
-Tsunderes and Aggressive girls may now attack customers as well, as their trait descriptions have always suggested.
-A girl getting raped will, among other (VERY) negative effects, have her enjoyment of the job she was doing when she was raped drastically reduced. (Note: This already happened in whore jobs. Now it can happen in any job. Security just became much more important)
-If a girl isn't doing a good job, the turn summary report will hint at that.
One idea I've been kicking around is changing the pay calculations so slave girls don't get paid. Period. Even on jobs which are paid by the player. They're your slave, they do what you tell them to, and if you tell them to guard the building, they do it. Slave girls already give up everything they get from customers on normal jobs, but on jobs that are paid by the player the girl is paid out of the player's pocket. With this change, slave girls will be totally dependent on you.
To balance this out, certain jobs which are normally paid by the player (Security, Advertising, Customer Service, etc.) will be performed (much) better if you have a free girl do them. They're getting paid to do it, after all, and some of these jobs pay pretty well comparatively.
It's already necessary to have free girls in order to employ Matrons and Torturers, but this will make it necessary to think about whether you want to employ a free girl to do a job, or assign 2 or 3 slaves to do as good a job.
What do you think? Good idea? Bad idea? Suggestions?
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Great idea I always found it absurd to pay my slaves. And in order to balance things it seems only fair that they do a worse job than a free girl.
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New changes coming down the line:
-If a girl enjoys her job, she may gain or lose traits.
Good idea, as long as traits she might loose or gain make sense.
-A girl may do a better or worse job if she's equipped with weapons, depending on the nature of the job (Barmaids, for example, may scare away customers).
I have an idea here, I took a look at your code and noticed that you check against both weapons. Second weapon is a shiv, knife or dagger. Those can be concealed and can be an asset in capable hands when dealing with some seriously pissed of and unruly costumer, also should not hurt girl's confidence and security. More checks can be written here as for example giving a Tsunadere girl a knife for a barmaid would lead to some unpleasant circumstances.
-Yandere's may now attack customers while doing any job, not just whore jobs.
-Tsunderes and Aggressive girls may now attack customers as well, as their trait descriptions have always suggested.
Good idea, maybe adding a some diversity would not hurt, Tsunadere would only attack is costumer is rude and Aggressive will only attack when costumer is being aggressive.
-A girl getting raped will, among other (VERY) negative effects, have her enjoyment of the job she was doing when she was raped drastically reduced. (Note: This already happened in whore jobs. Now it can happen in any job. Security just became much more important)
(VERY) negative effects bother me here, it's Crossgate, judging from what we know of the town, rape is likely not uncommon. People get used to their environment, no matter how harsh it might be. There should be a demoralizing effect, but not a strong one in my opinion.
I do not understand specifics either, what do you want to achieve by decreasing her enjoyment of the job? Whore as in original I sort of get, if girl was raped, she might need a week of and detest "Whoring" for a while, but lets say you have a bar with a singer, stripper, barmaid and waitress in the bar (maybe even in plural), what sense can it possibly make that a waitress that was raped would loose enjoyment of waittressing but could come back to the same bar to work as a barmaid or stripper without hesitation or penalties?
Another issue I never understood is raping in itself, when you have security and they come to girls rescue they hear her screaming or calling for help, but so would a matron, so would other girls who might want to help and even some ablebodied costumers who wouldn't mind looking good in front of a bunch of pretty girls and kick the shit out of rapist... not mentioning you gang/gangs that cannot support themselves (unless you get really lucky) without money from your establishments that other girls or matron would call in. One thing I though was utterly retarded concept of WM EX is gangs not guarding brothels, there is very little one could say to justify your gangs not protecting your main source of income. AND another thing, how do you rape a barmaid/waitress in crowded bar? Where your gangmembers should sit amongst you costumers and loads of other people around.
-If a girl isn't doing a good job, the turn summary report will hint at that.
Good idea.
One idea I've been kicking around is changing the pay calculations so slave girls don't get paid. Period. Even on jobs which are paid by the player. They're your slave, they do what you tell them to, and if you tell them to guard the building, they do it. Slave girls already give up everything they get from customers on normal jobs, but on jobs that are paid by the player the girl is paid out of the player's pocket. With this change, slave girls will be totally dependent on you.
To balance this out, certain jobs which are normally paid by the player (Security, Advertising, Customer Service, etc.) will be performed (much) better if you have a free girl do them. They're getting paid to do it, after all, and some of these jobs pay pretty well comparatively.
It's already necessary to have free girls in order to employ Matrons and Torturers, but this will make it necessary to think about whether you want to employ a free girl to do a job, or assign 2 or 3 slaves to do as good a job.
Bad idea, slaves should do those jobs as well as free girls, the whole point of having slaves is not paying money for labor and I see no reason what so ever why free girl would preform jobs better than a dedicated, well trained slave. This undermines the whole idea of slavery, you want balance? But slavery is unbalancing AND it is a big thing, it is very objectionable morally BUT it has ALWAYS been EXTREMELY profitable (as you imagine a free labor should be). The degree of your offset undermines the whole idea and point of slavery, there can be some small penalty but not what you suggest...
What do you think? Good idea? Bad idea? Suggestions?
Above as you asked :)
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I'd like to second just about everything Xela said. With one note on not playing slaves.
Not paying your slaves does make sense. However if slaves become unpaid I'd like some way to automatically give them a small purse of spending money.
The reason for this is that once my brothel gets large enough I generally set girls on the more mundane jobs (cleaning, waitressing, etc) to work one shift and have the other off. One of reasons I do this is because when girls have free time they go shopping. I find it fun to periodically thumb through my ignored girls and see what they've been spending their gold on. This also saves me the trouble of manually equipping them. I even edit the config.xml file and set the SlaveHousePerc to 80, so that they accumulate money a little bit faster.
I realize you can give girls gold manually, but brothels can hold a max of 200 girls, or is 250? That's a lot of girls to give their allowance to...
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I'd like to second just about everything Xela said. With one note on not playing slaves.
Not paying your slaves does make sense. However if slaves become unpaid I'd like some way to automatically give them a small purse of spending money.
The reason for this is that once my brothel gets large enough I generally set girls on the more mundane jobs (cleaning, waitressing, etc) to work one shift and have the other off. One of reasons I do this is because when girls have free time they go shopping. I find it fun to periodically thumb through my ignored girls and see what they've been spending their gold on. This also saves me the trouble of manually equipping them. I even edit the config.xml file and set the SlaveHousePerc to 80, so that they accumulate money a little bit faster.
I realize you can give girls gold manually, but brothels can hold a max of 200 girls, or is 250? That's a lot of girls to give their allowance to...
Oh, I though that not paying slaves for any job is selfevident from my post so I forgot to put that in, it is definitely a brilliant and obvious improvement. Suggested offset of that improvement is the idea I didn't like :)
You can 'pay' your slaves by changing the slider if you so wish... I do that sometimes for slaves who preform well for whatever reasons just for the heck of it.
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I realize you can give girls gold manually, but brothels can hold a max of 200 girls, or is 250? That's a lot of girls to give their allowance to...
255 is the max. And yeah there are a few things to make that easier there is code for an auto give items already in the game and you can already turn it on in the config file. So then you can just go buy all kinds of items and it will give them out for you.
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You can 'pay' your slaves by changing the slider if you so wish... I do that sometimes for slaves who preform well for whatever reasons just for the heck of it.
Setting the SlaveHousePerc in the config file is exactly this. Except it sets default position of slider for all Slave girls simultaneously, which is great for avoiding micromanagement.
And yeah there are a few things to make that easier there is code for an auto give items already in the game and you can already turn it on in the config file. So then you can just go buy all kinds of items and it will give them out for you.
Just like how I don't really trust a matron to correctly take my girls on/off shifts, I'm not sure I'd trust the logic to auto distribute items. I might be saving that Elixer of Youth for a favored loli girl who just turned 20, so she can keep her trait. Can I trust the auto distribute feature to stay away from valuable or difficult to replace items? With the shop the girls a pulling from a pool of items that are not mine so there is no risk of a rare item being used unless I choose to use it.
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Setting the SlaveHousePerc in the config file is exactly this. Except it sets default position of slider for all Slave girls simultaneously, which is great for avoiding micromanagement.
I said favorites, all at once is an overkill.
Just like how I don't really trust a matron to correctly take my girls on/off shifts, I'm not sure I'd trust the logic to auto distribute items. I might be saving that Elixer of Youth for a favored loli girl who just turned 20, so she can keep her trait. Can I trust the auto distribute feature to stay away from valuable or difficult to replace items? With the shop the girls a pulling from a pool of items that are not mine so there is no risk of a rare item being used unless I choose to use it.
Some micro is a good thing, same actions over and over again should be avoided, item distribution is doable manually.
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However, when I get a large number of girls, I don't want to distribute items to all of them manually. The current game allows me give slave girls a small amount of gold with which they will equip themselves, albeit slowly. This allows me to mirco the things I care about, and let what I view as the more tedious tasks tend to themselves. This option is what I'd like to see preserved, and what becomes more difficult if I cannot pay my slave girls in one form or another.
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To balance this out, certain jobs which are normally paid by the player (Security, Advertising, Customer Service, etc.) will be performed (much) better if you have a free girl do them. They're getting paid to do it, after all, and some of these jobs pay pretty well comparatively.
On the other hand, slaves can be punished if they don't work hard enough, and they (probably) will be beyond the law if they run away, while free girls can leave you anytime and find another job.
I agree that slavery must be somehow balanced out, though.
You can 'pay' your slaves by changing the slider if you so wish... I do that sometimes for slaves who preform well for whatever reasons just for the heck of it.
But you can't control amount of payment for the jobs mentioned by Aika. This slider needs some improvement.
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On the other hand, slaves can be punished if they don't work hard enough, and they (probably) will be beyond the law if they run away, while free girls can leave you anytime and find another job.
Actually the way game is played now free girls can't leave you for sh!tz... they should however have such an option and different functions handling their work/preferences.
I agree that slavery must be somehow balanced out, though.
Balancing out slavery is abolishing slavery, it is supposed to be easier and a lot more profitable by default, I cannot understand your logic in this... If you want to balance it our somehow, add an upkeep fee for a slave, since they are your property it is logical that you have to take care of them and their needs while free girls can take care of themselves, making slaves 2 or 3 times worse workers than free girls is in my opinion absurd.
But you can't control amount of payment for the jobs mentioned by Aika. This slider needs some improvement.
You control what percentage she gets, over a long run even 5% per week will stack up to a very decent amount, it is something to consider but not something that should be on the very top of TODO list...
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they should however have such an option and different functions handling their work/preferences.
Indeed. This is part of balancing out, I guess.
Balancing out slavery is abolishing slavery, it is supposed to be easier and a lot more profitable by default
I never said it isn't supposed to be more profitable. It's just too easy. For example, we can make a slave from any girl without any consequences at all. Anarchy, huh?
You control what percentage she gets, over a long run even 5% per week will stack up to a very decent amount
Unless she works as cleaner, guard, etc. There're a lot of such jobs, actually.
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Hmm...if I might make a suggestion regarding the slave balance thing?
Something that would make sense to me and also act as a bit of a downside to slavery would be if (either by a new trait called 'Slave' or just included elsewhere), slaves had a cap on their spirit and could never go higher than say...50 or 60 (just pulling numbers out of thin air). It might affect jobs where high spirit is helpful, but wouldn't necessarily hurt others and not crippling since I believe most jobs rely on multiple stats. It can be hard to flourish and be perky when you're owned property.
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I never said it isn't supposed to be more profitable. It's just too easy. For example, we can make a slave from any girl without any consequences at all. Anarchy, huh?
Yeah.. there should be a great penalty for enslavement, no arguments there...
Unless she works as cleaner, guard, etc. There're a lot of such jobs, actually.
Actually Aika said something about balancing out jobs, at least I hope he did, but you're right. There are several ways to fix this problem, all depends on the coder.
Just a thought... how wise is it to have slaves work as guards? Arming slaves willingly just sounds kind of absurd and dangerous in itself. Only slaves that had been enslaved and trained from birth or that undergone some magical brainwashing can be armed... I am getting in to deep here, it is to difficult to code and explain to all players :(
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Hmm...if I might make a suggestion regarding the slave balance thing?
Something that would make sense to me and also act as a bit of a downside to slavery would be if (either by a new trait called 'Slave' or just included elsewhere), slaves had a cap on their spirit and could never go higher than say...50 or 60 (just pulling numbers out of thin air). It might affect jobs where high spirit is helpful, but wouldn't necessarily hurt others and not crippling since I believe most jobs rely on multiple stats. It can be hard to flourish and be perky when you're owned property.
Yeap, that is one of the ways you could offset slavery, it all depends on how Aika codes jobs, if spirit is important, it would be a way, just 50 - 60 might be to harsh, as I said before, Slaves should not be significantly weaker at preforming their tasks than free girls.
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Ok, this discussion has taken a turn toward arguing over whether slave girls should be balanced at all. Let's get this discussion back on track. Basically what I've seen here is people like my idea that you don't pay slaves for doing a job, but don't like anything that would balance out the MASSIVE advantage you get for employing slaves over free girls. The problem here is that at a certain point, there's no reason to employ free girls at all.
Balancing out slavery is abolishing slavery, it is supposed to be easier and a lot more profitable by default, I cannot understand your logic in this...
If slave girls can do jobs the player pays for, for free, just as well as a free girl can, there's no reason to have a free girl do the job. The goal here is game balance. I need options here for the game's balance, so that enslaving every girl in your brothel isn't the best idea. I need reasons to keep girls free, other than just the fact that Matron and Torturer cannot be a slave.
Free girls have higher rebelliousness, don't do any better of a job than a slave, and you have to pay them. I can't think of any reason, with the way things are in the game, why I'd want a free girl to do a job instead of a slave I can get to do the job for free. This needs work, and if I have to do something that doesn't make complete sense in order to give the player reasons to want to have free girls in their brothel, that's what I'm going to have to do.
If you want to balance it our somehow, add an upkeep fee for a slave, since they are your property it is logical that you have to take care of them and their needs while free girls can take care of themselves...
Hmm... interesting idea, and one that would be relatively easy to code in... Let's examine this idea a bit. If we add an upkeep for slaves, it would encourage players to use free girls, especially early on when it would be difficult for them to make any kind of profit from slave girls working bar jobs. Let's say we set slave upkeep to 25 gold per accomodation level. That seems reasonable for a week of room and board. A barmaid slave would need to take care of (on average) 2 customers to earn her keep, any more is profit. If you have her working a job like cleaning, security, advertising, etc. that doesn't earn money for the brothel, you're still paying her 25 gold per accomodation level upkeep. In the case of free girls working the same jobs, you're paying her directly for the job and letting her take care of her own accomodations. But these jobs pay anywhere from 50-75 gold, so it's still more profitable to set a slave to do the job, and free girls still don't offer any advantages at these jobs. Also, later on when free girls are making enough that their cut of 40% is more than just 25 gold, it's still more profitable to have a slave do the job, and free girls still don't offer any advantages.
Good idea, needs work.
making slaves 2 or 3 times worse workers than free girls is in my opinion absurd.
Nice to know you think my ideas are absurd. ::)
I have an idea here, I took a look at your code and noticed that you check against both weapons. Second weapon is a shiv, knife or dagger. Those can be concealed and can be an asset in capable hands when dealing with some seriously pissed of and unruly costumer, also should not hurt girl's confidence and security.
For this, there is the small weapon type, which the new function does not check for. A girl can have one weapon that's small enough to be concealed.
You control what percentage she gets, over a long run even 5% per week will stack up to a very decent amount, it is something to consider but not something that should be on the very top of TODO list...
Actually, as I trip over things that need to be fixed/changed/made different while I'm working on the coding for the job functions, they do land on the very top of the TODO list. And that's really something that should be my decision, not yours. :/
we can make a slave from any girl without any consequences at all.
THIS!!! This is what I'm trying to fix. I need consequences for making a girl a slave, to balance out the benefits of free labor against some drawback.
Just like how I don't really trust a matron to correctly take my girls on/off shifts...
You don't trust the matron? Why? Is there a problem with it? I spent some time a while back tracing this out to find the crash when the torturer is taken off shift, and (hopefully) fixed that. Are there other problems? I need to know so I can fix it.
The matron takes a girl off shift, and the game stores in that particular girl's variables what job she was doing before the matron put her on resting. When the girl is rested enough, the matron puts her back on the job stored in the girl's variables, and clears the variable. The variable is saved, so saving/loading doesn't cause any breaks in the code, and the matron code is triggered by the girl having low health or high tiredness to have the matron take her off shift, and again by high health and low tiredness to have the matron put her back on the job. As far as I can tell from looking at the code, there's no reason not to trust the matron to do her job. I can review it again, but I need something to go off of to try to track down your problem with it other than "I just don't trust it".
Hmm...if I might make a suggestion regarding the slave balance thing?
Something that would make sense to me and also act as a bit of a downside to slavery would be if (either by a new trait called 'Slave' or just included elsewhere), slaves had a cap on their spirit and could never go higher than say...50 or 60 (just pulling numbers out of thin air). It might affect jobs where high spirit is helpful, but wouldn't necessarily hurt others and not crippling since I believe most jobs rely on multiple stats. It can be hard to flourish and be perky when you're owned property.
Now this is an idea, but it would be a bit difficult to implement. The whole part about putting a conditional cap on a girl's stat would be a bitch to code in. It would also make the difference between free girls and slave girls rebelliousness even more ridiculous than it already is.
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Maybe use PCHate as a variable to help promote usage of free girls over slaves by having all current girls (slaves and free) not like slavery. This could be in addition to any 'nice/not nice' adjustment.
Buy a slave at the market: all current girls get +1PCHate
Enslave a catacomb capture before releasing from dungeon: all current girls get +2PCHate
Enslave a given daughter/meet girl: all current girls get +3PCHate
Free a slave: all current girls get -2PCHate
This does give a bias towards 'nice' masters, although if a master keeps PCFear high it may keep the haters in line.
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I need reasons to keep girls free, other than just the fact that Matron and Torturer cannot be a slave.
xela made a good point about not arming slaves so maybe switch Security to free only.
Hmm... interesting idea, and one that would be relatively easy to code in... Let's examine this idea a bit. If we add an upkeep for slaves, it would encourage players to use free girls, especially early on when it would be difficult for them to make any kind of profit from slave girls working bar jobs. Let's say we set slave upkeep to 25 gold per accomodation level. That seems reasonable for a week of room and board. A barmaid slave would need to take care of (on average) 2 customers to earn her keep, any more is profit. If you have her working a job like cleaning, security, advertising, etc. that doesn't earn money for the brothel, you're still paying her 25 gold per accomodation level upkeep. In the case of free girls working the same jobs, you're paying her directly for the job and letting her take care of her own accomodations. But these jobs pay anywhere from 50-75 gold, so it's still more profitable to set a slave to do the job, and free girls still don't offer any advantages at these jobs. Also, later on when free girls are making enough that their cut of 40% is more than just 25 gold, it's still more profitable to have a slave do the job, and free girls still don't offer any advantages.
Good idea, needs work.
Always thought accomodation's should mean more not just to slave or not but with custmomers also. Why wouldn't they be happier if they went to a nice room instead of a shit hole room.
THIS!!! This is what I'm trying to fix. I need consequences for making a girl a slave, to balance out the benefits of free labor against some drawback.
Always thought if you enslaved a girl yourself your dispsion should take a much larger hit. I mean don't you think that girl you just enslaved that your now making whore herself to anyone would be telling everyone that you enslaved her? My thoughts were something along the lines of my making the politcs play a bigger part there. Make it to where you had to spend more money to keep the police off you. Maybe even make it to where you have to send girls to the mayor to have sex with so he doesn't have them bust you... On my wall of crazy ideals was to make you throw parties at your house for the police and mayor with girls doing varoius things to keep them from busting you for enslaving and such.
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You don't trust the matron? Why? Is there a problem with it? I spent some time a while back tracing this out to find the crash when the torturer is taken off shift, and (hopefully) fixed that. Are there other problems? I need to know so I can fix it.
I should start by saying that I am a very lazy brothel owner, especially when it comes to the mundane jobs. After the beginning phase is over and I'm make positive income, when I set a girl to clean/bartend/etc she's likely not going to receive more attention from me unless she starts consistently turning up in the turn summary reports.
Now the reason I don't trust a Matron's judgement when taking girls on/off duty is not because I think she's broken, I want to be clear on that. It is because girls accumulate fatigue at different rates.
For example, if I need 5 girls on a job to meet my customer's demands and I have 7 girls set aside for that job, my experience is that a Matron will take girls on/off duty without considering customer demands. If 4 of the 7 girls are tired those 4 girls get time off. Then the remaining 3 girls cannot meet my customer's demands, which causes my brothel to suffer. Conversely, if all 7 girls are only moderately tired, they will all be placed on duty despite the excess of labor.
To be fair I haven't used a matron extensively in the new patch yet. I also see the possibly that the now working customer service job will probably provide a solution to my complaint. I'll give matrons another shot once I actually put in the time to play up an appropriately sized brothel.
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Nice to know you think my ideas are absurd. ::)
Definitely not in plural :)
For this, there is the small weapon type, which the new function does not check for. A girl can have one weapon that's small enough to be concealed.
Adding that to a long list of things I did not know.
Actually, as I trip over things that need to be fixed/changed/made different while I'm working on the coding for the job functions, they do land on the very top of the TODO list. And that's really something that should be my decision, not yours. :/
LoL, I got carried away, in our Alkion 'WM2' project I went away for 5 or 6 weeks and when I came back project turned into an RPG with a Sim elements instead of a Sim with RPG element. If I actually participated in arguments during that time, I am fairly sure it could have been prevented so I am sort of emotionally invested into new patches for original WM so there is something to play until Alkion is finished (workload for RPG is 2 or 3 times greater then Sim).
In any case, apologies if I overstepped.
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balancing slave/free girls will be hard... my idea is daily loss of happiness for slaves:
every day -2 happiness, maybe extra for loss for bad jobs like whore?
also maybe free girls should gain incresed xp? so they level up faster and gain traits faster.
next i need to ask about the "house percent" bar, as far as i can tell (i never tested/cared about it before) it allows you to changes the amount the girl keeps after doing jobs. i think this should be implemented better:
1. only allowing the free girls to have it?
2. for it to be "stronger" and have more of a positive and negative effect ( for example, new un-trained girls will not accept silly numbers. but as they "get to know you" you can change the amount more freely)?
and the last thing is accomodation:
1. stronger effect for higher levels?
2. lock at mid range for slaves?
this is me just emptying my brain before i go to bed :D
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Slave vs. Free definitely needs advantages/disadvantages based on type. I like the idea of having fees for room & board. Depending on how intricate you want the code to be, here is how it could break down.
Expenses depend on Accommodation level, perfectly fine. Some of the levels are less than average, because, well, who says you have to provide 'Good' room & board for your slaves, you just need them to be able to work. As for free girls, let them pay for that themselves, out of their pocket money. Figure, most will go spend for average accommodations, but their choices can be altered by traits and personal income.
Now each Brothel has a limit to worker capacity, but theoretically, there should also be a lodging capacity(smaller). Slaves obviously require the lodging to survive. Free Girls get their rooms else where in town. But the player could always 'Rent' out extra rooms to the 'Free Girls'. This introduces a new revenue stream for the player, and prevents someone from only employing Slaves. You won't have enough rooms to have full staffing if you don't hire 'Free Girls'. Let the player set room accommodation levels and make Player owned rooms less than the City average (will need a report showing average rates for 'Room & Board'). A Player could house a 'Free Girl' in one of his extra rooms, because his rates are less than the city, he can afford to cut her 'Salary' with out reducing her disposable income. The 'Free Girl' may still be fairly content with the arrangement.
Now, 'Free Girls' SHOULD be more effective at their jobs. They have 'Class Mobility'. The harder they work (More effective), the more $$ they make. They can buy more items, and afford better accommodations. So a 'Free Girl' will want to work high paying jobs, and will strive to serve more customers, as best as she can. Assuming she is comfortable in the job (whoring). A slave, has no 'Class Mobility'. They cannot buy better lodging, food, or items. They have no incentive to do more than the bear minimum. The only times they might do a better job, is if they think their life would be in danger otherwise, or if they are in 'Love' with the player. Love and Fear are motivators for Slaves. Love will make a slave be slightly more effective. Fear, while making them obedient, may cause them to perform poorly if they begin to have a bad day. The Fear grows and consumes their thoughts, they panic and make mistakes.
Examples:
Advertising: A 'Free Girl' will be more effective at advertising. If she isn't, you will give the job to someone else.
Bartending: A slave may serve the same as a 'Free Girl', but she won't 'Up Sell' beverages.
Singer: A 'Free Girl' will put in more emotion, may be a bit more flirty, to try and increase tips. May even perform encores.
Waitress: A Slave won't 'Up Sell'. If someone makes a pass at her, she may make a mistake and fear drives her into more mistakes. A 'Free Girl' may flirt back and will 'Up Sell'.
Cleaning: If the 'Free Girl' does not try, the job will go to someone else. A Slave will only want to to do the minimum to not get punished.
Whoring: A 'Free Girl' may be turned off by the job and rebel. But if she is comfortable with it, she may put in more effort and 'Up Sell' services to try and gain bigger tips.
The way I see it, 'Free Girls' will serve more customers and the average revenue per customer will be higher than service by a Slave. On non-customer jobs (ex: Cleaning), a Slave will be less effective. The ultimate result should be that 'Free Girls' will allow you to serve more customers, a wider array of services. On an individual basis, a Slave will cost less in upkeep than a 'Free Girl'. It should be possible to coerce a Slave into working ANY job through a high enough PCFear, or PCLove stat. A 'Free Girl' will refuse at a certain point if she does not like the job, ultimately quitting if pushed to far.
So the question is, what are the limitations for 'Free Girls'? What jobs will they not do, and at what 'Salary' can you convince them. Slaves should be more efficient when comparing 'New Hires'. But over time, 'Free Girls' should have greater gains in experience/skills and ultimately perform better when time is invested.
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Slave vs. Free definitely needs advantages/disadvantages based on type. I like the idea of having fees for room & board. Depending on how intricate you want the code to be, here is how it could break down.
Expenses depend on Accommodation level, perfectly fine. Some of the levels are less than average, because, well, who says you have to provide 'Good' room & board for your slaves, you just need them to be able to work. As for free girls, let them pay for that themselves, out of their pocket money. Figure, most will go spend for average accommodations, but their choices can be altered by traits and personal income.
Now each Brothel has a limit to worker capacity, but theoretically, there should also be a lodging capacity(smaller). Slaves obviously require the lodging to survive. Free Girls get their rooms else where in town. But the player could always 'Rent' out extra rooms to the 'Free Girls'. This introduces a new revenue stream for the player, and prevents someone from only employing Slaves. You won't have enough rooms to have full staffing if you don't hire 'Free Girls'. Let the player set room accommodation levels and make Player owned rooms less than the City average (will need a report showing average rates for 'Room & Board'). A Player could house a 'Free Girl' in one of his extra rooms, because his rates are less than the city, he can afford to cut her 'Salary' with out reducing her disposable income. The 'Free Girl' may still be fairly content with the arrangement.
Now, 'Free Girls' SHOULD be more effective at their jobs. They have 'Class Mobility'. The harder they work (More effective), the more $$ they make. They can buy more items, and afford better accommodations. So a 'Free Girl' will want to work high paying jobs, and will strive to serve more customers, as best as she can. Assuming she is comfortable in the job (whoring). A slave, has no 'Class Mobility'. They cannot buy better lodging, food, or items. They have no incentive to do more than the bear minimum. The only times they might do a better job, is if they think their life would be in danger otherwise, or if they are in 'Love' with the player. Love and Fear are motivators for Slaves. Love will make a slave be slightly more effective. Fear, while making them obedient, may cause them to perform poorly if they begin to have a bad day. The Fear grows and consumes their thoughts, they panic and make mistakes.
Examples:
Advertising: A 'Free Girl' will be more effective at advertising. If she isn't, you will give the job to someone else.
Bartending: A slave may serve the same as a 'Free Girl', but she won't 'Up Sell' beverages.
Singer: A 'Free Girl' will put in more emotion, may be a bit more flirty, to try and increase tips. May even perform encores.
Waitress: A Slave won't 'Up Sell'. If someone makes a pass at her, she may make a mistake and fear drives her into more mistakes. A 'Free Girl' may flirt back and will 'Up Sell'.
Cleaning: If the 'Free Girl' does not try, the job will go to someone else. A Slave will only want to to do the minimum to not get punished.
Whoring: A 'Free Girl' may be turned off by the job and rebel. But if she is comfortable with it, she may put in more effort and 'Up Sell' services to try and gain bigger tips.
The way I see it, 'Free Girls' will serve more customers and the average revenue per customer will be higher than service by a Slave. On non-customer jobs (ex: Cleaning), a Slave will be less effective. The ultimate result should be that 'Free Girls' will allow you to serve more customers, a wider array of services. On an individual basis, a Slave will cost less in upkeep than a 'Free Girl'. It should be possible to coerce a Slave into working ANY job through a high enough PCFear, or PCLove stat. A 'Free Girl' will refuse at a certain point if she does not like the job, ultimately quitting if pushed to far.
So the question is, what are the limitations for 'Free Girls'? What jobs will they not do, and at what 'Salary' can you convince them. Slaves should be more efficient when comparing 'New Hires'. But over time, 'Free Girls' should have greater gains in experience/skills and ultimately perform better when time is invested.
Class mobility is not directly applicable as for example there is no 'education' stat in WM. Try reading Aesop or other ancient greeks, some slaves were philosophers and scholars and some highborn were uneducated morons. Also you can make any girl a slave overnight so what? She suddenly falls into another social class and does significantly worse than before? It's not that simple, best way to offset slavery seems to be upkeep and maybe a very harsh psychological damage due to enslavement.
Also if by 'Class Mobility' you suggest different social circles/education/opportunities and so on, it makes even less sense as we have already discussed a similar topic. There is no way of knowing a background of a slave since in most societies that allowed slavery free citizens of your own city/state cannot just be randomly enslaved, in WM there is no problem with that.
So your approach is not even close to being as bulletproof as you imagined.
In any case, if you want to try and explain the idea of social mobility to every WM player and how it effects WM mechanics in place of explaining upkeep you have to pay for a slave, be my guest :D
Free girls is a different topic... There are other variables but the main issue that has to be fixed is allowing them to quit if they do not wish to work for you. They already would more often than not say no to the jobs they dislike until you manage to shower them with cash lowering their demands.
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On a topic somewhat different than the balance between slave/free girls, I've a few small notes on traits:
- Incroporial is misspelled. The correct spelling is Incorporeal.
- The following traits do not change skills/stats. If they have no secondary effect then I think they do nothing.
- Psychic
- Fake Orgasim Expert
- Tsundere
- Twisted
- Futanari
- Different Colored Eyes
- Strange Eyes
- Cat Girl
- Your Daughter
- Incest
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So your approach is not even close to being as bulletproof as you imagined.
Xela, do try to be a little bit more open minded. We're brainstorming ideas, not trying to score points for being right. You don't need to attack anyone that has a different opinion than you or a different understanding of a topic/definition/whatever. He didn't even try to imply that his approach was bulletproof, he just proposed his ideas for how it could be handled. Can we please try to work together here? I REALLY don't want to have to play the "I'm the one developing this so what I say goes" card.
On further inspection of the code, slaves and free girls both cost you upkeep based on their accomodation level already. Higher accomodation level makes the girl like you more and hate you less. As far as I can tell, this is one of only two ways to reduce slave girl hate, with the other way being giving the girl a house share of 30% or less. The accomodation level calculations also look like they're broken, a possible case of too many programmers working on the same part of the code making things work funny. I'll take a look at that part of the code later and make sure it works right. Right now it looks like slave girls cost 25 gold per accomodation level, while free girls only cost 20? Yeah, this is getting reworked. It's probably also the reason Love is so easy to increase on slaves, it looks like slaves get both the slave and the free girl bonuses for higher accomodation levels.
So making free girls pay you for their upkeep goes on the TODO list. They're already counted against the number of rooms in the brothel, and you pay upkeep for having them. They work for you, they live in your brothel, it's only fair they pay you for their food and rent.
I like the idea of having free girls choose their own accomodation level. If they're willing to pay the extra, they can have a better room. We can easily disable the player's ability to modify a free girl's accomodation level. The logic for determining what accomodation level the girl will choose will be a bit more difficult.
It would be easy to implement a 'freegirl' bonus in the jobs. The free girl works harder to take care of more customers and get more pay, because she wants to earn enough for better accomodations. Slaves have no such motivation. This makes sense to me.
So with what we're looking at, slaves and free girls will have the following advantages/disadvantages:
Slaves:
Obedient ++
You pay upkeep -
You pay for all equipment -
Free:
Bonus to job performance +
Pays own upkeep +
Will buy own equipment on free time +
Rebellious --
This seem about right?
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On a topic somewhat different than the balance between slave/free girls, I've a few small notes on traits:
- Incroporial is misspelled. The correct spelling is Incorporeal.
- The following traits do not change skills/stats. If they have no secondary effect then I think they do nothing.
- Psychic
- Fake Orgasim Expert
- Tsundere
- Twisted
- Futanari
- Different Colored Eyes
- Strange Eyes
- Cat Girl
- Your Daughter
- Incest
Cat Girl is the only one there that is really useless, I think. Maybe Futanari too. All of the others have secondary effects buried in the code somewhere, and certain jobs have penalties or bonuses for having certain traits. Tsundere may attack customers (with my code changes), Fake Orgasm Expert DOES offset Slow Orgasms and gives an additional small boost (did I forget to list the bonuses in the file?), Your Daughter comes up on the child when you knock up one of your girls, Incest comes up on the child when you knock up your daughter, and certain negative traits (malformed, slow learner, retarded, etc) have a higher chance of showing up when you knock up a girl with both the Your Daughter and Incest traits.
I haven't bothered to go through the code to correct spellings. Don't expect me to go grammar/spelling nazi anytime soon either, unless it's something I trip over while I'm working on that part of the code.
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Cat Girl is the only one there that is really useless, I think. Maybe Futanari too. All of the others have secondary effects buried in the code somewhere, and certain jobs have penalties or bonuses for having certain traits. Tsundere may attack customers (with my code changes), Fake Orgasm Expert DOES offset Slow Orgasms and gives an additional small boost (did I forget to list the bonuses in the file?), Your Daughter comes up on the child when you knock up one of your girls, Incest comes up on the child when you knock up your daughter, and certain negative traits (malformed, slow learner, retarded, etc) have a higher chance of showing up when you knock up a girl with both the Your Daughter and Incest traits.
I don't have a problem with traits not modifying a girl's core stats. I just wanted to make you and crazy aware of this. I'd also like to add MILF to the list of traits that doesn't modify a girl's skills/stats.
I also double checked Fake Orgasm Expert, it does not add anything to a girl's stats or skills when present by itself, which is fine. However when it is paired with Slow Orgasms, it further penalizes all of a girl's sex skills by -2. That seems like a bug to me.
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I haven't bothered to go through the code to correct spellings. Don't expect me to go grammar/spelling nazi anytime soon either, unless it's something I trip over while I'm working on that part of the code.
I wouldn't even bother fixing spelling cause it will just break existing girls... If people really start to make alot of girl packs again then maybe but otherwise I wouldn't that way people don't have to fix the already made packs.
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I do like the point about slaves and weapons. Slaves not being allowed to serve as security would be a good and logical move, in my opinion.
Kind of an odd implementation that I was talking about earlier...
When a girl does a job that uses spirit in its calculation, add an 'if' statement to check if they are a slave. If they are a slave, then use their spirit, up to a max of the value of PCLove. Like :
int val = spirit;
if (val > PCLove)
{
val = PCLove;
}
Pseudo-code, obviously, I forget the exact function call to access stat values, but should get my idea across. Not perfect, but it's a way of adding a hurdle for a slave without crippling their performance. Slaves _could_ be as good as a free girl at a job, but only if the PC has treated them well. A slave who feels cherished would be more motivated to perform.
As well, not sure if it was in this thread earlier and I missed it, but how hard would it be to add something like a 'Job Agency'? A place to hire Free Girls similar in format to the Slave Market.
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I also double checked Fake Orgasm Expert, it does not add anything to a girl's stats or skills when present by itself, which is fine. However when it is paired with Slow Orgasms, it further penalizes all of a girl's sex skills by -2. That seems like a bug to me.
Ok, there's a bug in there somewhere. Fake Orgasm Expert should be negating Slow Orgasms and adding an additional +2 to all the sex skills. I'll have to dig in the code to find that little gremlin. It might just be a typecase error. Slow Orgasms by itself subtracts 2 from the sex skills.
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Regarding accommodation, may you can link it to the level of the brothel. For example, if a brothel is level one then it will only allow for accommodation up to level 3 (a random number i picked). You would have to upgrade your brothel to level 2 in order to allow for a higher accommodation.
Why the bother with upgrading the brothel?! Well it gives a money sink which is always good and can add further depth to the game.
Also, depending on how hard to code would be, you could make that the higher the level of the hotel:
- the lower the number of rooms ( they are larger thus take more space).
- the more expensive the upkeep (harder to clean etc)
Just my two cents.
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On further inspection of the code, slaves and free girls both cost you upkeep based on their accomodation level already. Higher accomodation level makes the girl like you more and hate you less. As far as I can tell, this is one of only two ways to reduce slave girl hate, with the other way being giving the girl a house share of 30% or less. The accomodation level calculations also look like they're broken, a possible case of too many programmers working on the same part of the code making things work funny. I'll take a look at that part of the code later and make sure it works right. Right now it looks like slave girls cost 25 gold per accomodation level, while free girls only cost 20? Yeah, this is getting reworked. It's probably also the reason Love is so easy to increase on slaves, it looks like slaves get both the slave and the free girl bonuses for higher accomodation levels.
So increasing a girl's accommodation level does do something. I never saw any obvious affect from changing it, so I assumed that it was a broken or half implemented feature. Then again I never tested it in detail either.
This also likely explains the fact that I have sometimes seen girls auto-magically fall in love with the player when they've been effectively ignored. What I've seen basically amounts to:
1. Acquire a girl and put her in some random job.
2. Continue to play for awhile, say 10 weeks.
3. Examine the girl and note that her feelings toward the player have improved. Given enough time she's head over heels in love.
On that note, perhaps pclove increases should be capped at a certain level without the player's personal interaction. There might be a few exceptions (stalker girl who follows you everywhere and writes creeply detailed fantasies in her diary every night) but the majority of girls aren't going to think that the player is her true love without a little personal attention.
So making free girls pay you for their upkeep goes on the TODO list. They're already counted against the number of rooms in the brothel, and you pay upkeep for having them. They work for you, they live in your brothel, it's only fair they pay you for their food and rent.
I like the idea of having free girls choose their own accomodation level. If they're willing to pay the extra, they can have a better room. We can easily disable the player's ability to modify a free girl's accomodation level. The logic for determining what accomodation level the girl will choose will be a bit more difficult.
I think both of these ideas are great. Please do implement them.
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Xela, do try to be a little bit more open minded. We're brainstorming ideas, not trying to score points for being right. You don't need to attack anyone that has a different opinion than you or a different understanding of a topic/definition/whatever. He didn't even try to imply that his approach was bulletproof, he just proposed his ideas for how it could be handled. Can we please try to work together here? I REALLY don't want to have to play the "I'm the one developing this so what I say goes" card.
Was 05:05 in the morning after a day and a night figuring out stuff in Python, PyGame, Photoshop that I did not understand.
So making free girls pay you for their upkeep goes on the TODO list. They're already counted against the number of rooms in the brothel, and you pay upkeep for having them. They work for you, they live in your brothel, it's only fair they pay you for their food and rent.
I like the idea of having free girls choose their own accomodation level. If they're willing to pay the extra, they can have a better room. We can easily disable the player's ability to modify a free girl's accomodation level. The logic for determining what accomodation level the girl will choose will be a bit more difficult.
How did we get here? Free girls already pay you a cut of their earnings... this suggestion just complicates the game.
Also, since it is your brothel, you should set the rules and pay for things like rooms and nice furniture, what I meant earlier by upkeep are sleeping quarters and meals for slaves. If you are willing, this is something that you can make game more interesting with, if player is willing to pay more cash for slave upkeep, slaves are happier, there is a lower chance to rebel and maybe even a better work enthusiasm.
Free girls on the other hand would prefer to live in the city and in their own apartment, I do not understand what 'accommodations' are supposed to mean for a free maid, free guard or a free stripper/whore. Many of free girls might have a family, own home, hobbies and stuff like that...
So in short my original proposal was to have free girls pay for their own PERSONAL needs without players interference. While at the same time you cover slave girl's personal/lively needs.
PS: BTW, I am not trying to be right all the time, I am trying to root out ideas that are clear, make sense and are easy to explain to players so you could make a game that is fun, makes sense, easy to play and one that is not counterintuitive.
Edit: 'Easy to play' is not the right choice of words. I mean a game that is does not require instructions to explain a manual on how to play the game and why game mechanics work as they do.
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I mean don't you think that girl you just enslaved that your now making whore herself to anyone would be telling everyone that you enslaved her?
Exactly. I personally think that enslavement, even "voluntary", should at least cost you money to bribe guards, and perhaps lower your reputation among clients, especially if new slave has marks of torturing (I mean scars traits, broken will and so on).
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Exactly. I personally think that enslavement, even "voluntary", should at least cost you money to bribe guards, and perhaps lower your reputation among clients, especially if new slave has marks of torturing (I mean scars traits, broken will and so on).
2 things;
1. i don't think slaves are aloud to talk (if they do bad things happen/they aren't trusted)
2. due to the use of rep at the moment reducing it because you made a slave makes no sense ... on the other hand it should lower disposition(think it already dose this) and put a minor boost on "suspicion" maybe?
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i don't think slaves are aloud to talk (if they do bad things happen/they aren't trusted)
Perhaps, but they may have relatives or friends, so it doesn't really matter.
due to the use of rep at the moment reducing it because you made a slave makes no sense ... on the other hand it should lower disposition(think it already dose this) and put a minor boost on "suspicion" maybe?
WM already has disposition and suspicion penalties for enslavement. However both of them have minimal influence on game process, so obviously something should be changed.
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WM already has disposition and suspicion penalties for enslavement. However both of them have minimal influence on game process, so obviously something should be changed.
Yeah, loads can be improved... there should be some form a psychological trauma to the girl and maybe some consequences as random attack from relatives/friends as well. Maybe some sort of a learning curve for a slave, I mean, until you can set her at work. Something easy, no point in entering Slave Maker territory here.
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@Aika,
Thanks for the defense, but I wasn't all that bothered by the original response. To be honest, I did feel that my post was lacking something, some of the ideas in my head were a little...disconnected.
@Xela,
To be clear, I was trying to ponder the motivations that would be behind the actions of a 'Free Girl' and a Slave. I was thinking back to early American History, and for the most part, Class Mobility is a driving goal for many Freemen. In the world of Crossgate (WM) that may not be a realizable goal, as you pointed out. Even still, there should be motivations and what those are and what effects they will cause could be useful to know.
If you are a Slave(in WM), what motivates you each day? How hard do you work, and why? Ask the same questions if you are a Free individual. What are your motivations? The differences in the answers to both types of persons(Slave & 'Free Girl') may provide insight in how to balance them in-game. These kinds of advantages/disadvantages could be added to the game.
Switching topics, when I was contemplating accommodations (upkeep), I imagined that each brothel had a set of rooms(upstairs?) that could be used for lodging. But while a Brothel may employ up to 20 girls, maybe only 10 rooms were available. As the PC, you could provide for 10 girls at a time, and the other 10 would have to lodge elsewhere. This means at a minimum, 10 would have to be 'Free Girls'. You could as well have only 5 Slaves, and 'Rent' out the remaining 5 rooms to 'Free Girls' you are employing. In this case, I am just picking random numbers, no thought as to balancing yet, but this mechanic--while maybe difficult to code--also limits Player choices. Something that may not be desirable.
Switching to "Slaves as Security", my initial reaction is, who cares if a Player wants to arm a Slave? If the PC wants to risk arming a Slave who will later rebel and escape with a few other slaves, so be it. Just because it isn't a wise decision, doesn't mean it should be coded as impossible to make. I could imagine a rare situation where a slave becomes so infatuated with the PC where she would willing serve his every command, and she could be trusted with weapons. I am thinking of a Shampoo(Ranma 1/2) personality type, who would literally do anything if she thought it would please her master. Would it be completely unreasonable to trust her with weapons and the task of protecting your Brothel?
However, if it is easily possible to train Slaves to have that undying-devotion to their Master, how would that affect their balances with 'Free Girls'. A Slave motivated by pure love to that degree, would be nearly as effective at performing jobs as a 'Free Girl'. Even better at some as she wouldn't refuse her Master's commands. Though I supsect that even a 'Free Girl' could be trained to the same degree and she might be willing to take a steep pay-cut, if she thought it would benefit her Love. I suppose the conclusion that could be made from this, is that their needs to be a balance to the PCLove stat that girls will have. There would need to be downward pressures on the stat to prevent a Player from easily making all girls in his employ madly in love with him that they would heed his every beckon and demand nothing in return.
Just some further thoughts. As Aika said, I am only throwing this out as brainstorming ideas.
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@Xela,
To be clear, I was trying to ponder the motivations that would be behind the actions of a 'Free Girl' and a Slave. I was thinking back to early American History, and for the most part, Class Mobility is a driving goal for many Freemen. In the world of Crossgate (WM) that may not be a realizable goal, as you pointed out. Even still, there should be motivations and what those are and what effects they will cause could be useful to know.
When I read your posts I think about brainstorming towards writing a book or a visual novel. In my mind brainstorming towards a good Sim mechanics needs to be at lower, simpler level. On the other hand if this is helpful to Aika, I am not to judge.
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Ok, before we can start any kind of discussion over whether love/hate changes need to be rebalanced, we need to know exactly what causes changes in love or hate. So I've gone through the code, to get a full list.
Love+:
Free a slave (10)
Increase accomodations (slave) (No gain at level 0 accomodation, else double freegirl gain)
Increase accomodations (free) (1 point per turn for lvl 1 accomodation and 1 point for every 3 levels above, IF happiness = 100 AND (accomodation level is higher than the girl's level if girl's level is less than 6))
Happiness is 100 (2)
House slider <= 30 (varies)
Love-:
House slider > 60 (varies, free girls only)
Enslave (-10)
Rape interactions (-2)
Scold interactions (varies depending on spirit, -1 to -4)
Torture a girl (varies, -2 or -5)
Slave in the dungeon for a turn (-1 if feeding, -2 if starving)
Free girl in the dungeon for a turn (-4 if feeding, -5 if starving)
Her love of the PC made the difference in her decision to obey (-1)
Take away her money (slave -5, free -30)
Hurt (-1)
Badly hurt (-1 additional)
Tired (-1)
Extremely tired (-1 additional)
Health deteriorated from being tired (-1)
Unhappy free girl (-2)
Security girl was defeated (-20)
Girl was raped by customers (-20)
Hate+
House slider > 60 (varies, free girls only)
Enslave (5)
Rape interactions (3)
Take away her money (slave 5, free 30)
Any girl dies (1)
Low happiness (varies depending on how low it is)
Girl in dungeon (1 / starving free girl 4)
Hurt (1)
Badly hurt (1 additional)
Very tired (1)
Tortured (1 or 3)
Security girl was defeated (20)
Girl was kidnapped (50)
Girl was raped by customers (20)
Decrease accomodations to equal or less than girl's level, IF girl's level is less than 6 AND happiness = 0 (varies)
Hate-
House slider <= 30
Increase accomodations (slave) (No loss at level 0 accomodation, else double freegirl loss)
Increase accomodations (free) (-1 point per turn for lvl 1 accomodation and -1 point for every 3 levels above, IF happiness = 100 AND (accomodation level is higher than the girl's level if girl's level is less than 6))
Ok, I think I got all of it in there. I may have missed one or two special cases.
From what I can tell here, as long as you're treating the girl right and her happiness is 100, her love will rise quickly, especially if you have her at an accomodation level higher than her level. (doesn't necessarily have any effect on her hate). Given that all girls need 255 experience to increase in level, and all jobs give around 5 experience (ignoring quick/slow learner), it takes 51 turns to level. A level 0 girl will, if treated well (happiness stays at 100) max out her love in 50 turns. If also a free girl's accomodation level is 2, she will max out in 33 turns, and a slave girl also at accomodation level 1 will max out in 25 turns. In all cases, you will max her love before she even gains her first level.
So, this needs to be changed, and I'll be looking at this as my next project after I have the jobs code finished.
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Can you also make a list of where in the game love/hate are being checked against?
It might make some sense to completely remove accommodations from the equation for love stat, girl seems to fall in love simply if you are offering her a nice room but that (I assume) also increases costumers satisfaction and gives your brothel better rep? If not that is also something that should be considered as an addon.
Love is hard to advise on, most of those things should increase gratitude and happiness instead of love but we do not have gratitude in WM, maybe PCLove is something best left along for interactions and items (gifts)?
Hate is something simpler I think, more ways to decrease hate are needed, like maybe accommodations, good treatment of girls in general (clean brothel, happy girls, good security and so on). Tortured seems off, should be a greater penalty unless there are traits suggesting that she likes pain. Any girl dies should give a decent increase to PCFear and PCHate for all girls in the brothel as well. Not sure I understand the defeated security girl penalty, especially it being so high.
I'll try to get some sleep tonight so I'll leave it at this...
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Any girl dies should give a decent increase to PCFear and PCHate for all girls in the brothel as well.
I'll have to look now but I thought it already did. I see akia didn't list it so maybe not but I thought I seen that in the code somewhere...
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any idea why when i load the save it shows:
warning the exe is not detected as offical, it was detected as modded. Attempting to load anyways?
able to do something about this msg?
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I always wonder why WM uses two variables, love and hate, instead of one (let's say, from -100 to 100). They are pretty much two sides of one coin.
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I guess you can love, but still hate?
love and hate is a very complicated thing.
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We talk about WM here. Does game actually use both of them at the same time? I'm not sure.
In most cases, if girl has maximum love she has minimum hate, and vise versa.
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I always wonder why WM uses two variables, love and hate, instead of one (let's say, from -100 to 100). They are pretty much two sides of one coin.
Something to consider... I had similar idea but to turn hate into 'disposition towards the player as you suggest' and keep love separate just for players interest.
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just booted up the game after downloading some girl packs. for some reason 0 unique girls and all the random girls are showing up on my save.
BUT if i create a new save unique girls start showing up! any ideas? is it normal??
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That's something I'd considered as well, Xela. I'd intended to replace the PCHate with 'Loyalty'. Loyalty would serve as the main stat for helping a girl obey, and decrease when 'hate' would increase. PCLove was going to be mostly for interactions and story/scripts. Also had plans to, instead of listing PCLove, have an image on the portrait that indicated. A heart that changed colors as Love increased, but if you moused over it, it would show the number. Never did finish my GUI though.
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Hey Aika, I was wondering if you were ever going to get around to uploading the updated source code. Not that big a deal I guess, but I was hoping to play the current patch with a few changes to suit my gameplay preferences.
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i was wondering for ease of use can you make the game search through folders inside the girls folders for images? a little confusing... EG:
instead of it searching for:
Kitsune Miko\BDSM1.jpg
how about:
Kitsune Miko\BDSM\1.jpg
this im purely for ease of sorting the images and only an idea....
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i was wondering for ease of use can you make the game search through folders inside the girls folders for images? a little confusing... EG:
instead of it searching for:
Kitsune Miko\BDSM1.jpg
how about:
Kitsune Miko\BDSM\1.jpg
this im purely for ease of sorting the images and only an idea....
I am not sure that is more convenient... Will simply be a mess of pic folders...
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I am not sure that is more convenient... Will simply be a mess of pic folders...
HAHA, how'd you get that? ??? its to FIX the mess!!!!
sorting the 30 images into 10 folders.... separated by what type they are
you must have read it wrong :D
EDIT: Ok to explain it more;
instead of having 30 image in the girls folder (5 profile images 3 anal 4 sex 2 oral 6 bdsm ETC...)
you could make it easyer to handle/sort by adding folders EG;
inside of the girls folder have folder's spliting the difirent images. 1 folder for anal, 1 folder for bdsm, 1 folder for combat, ETC. and inside the folders are the images.
i cant think of any other way to explain it....
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HAHA, how'd you get that? ??? its to FIX the mess!!!!
sorting the 30 images into 10 folders.... separated by what type they are
you must have read it wrong :D
EDIT: Ok to explain it more;
instead of having 30 image in the girls folder (5 profile images 3 anal 4 sex 2 oral 6 bdsm ETC...)
you could make it easyer to handle/sort by adding folders EG;
inside of the girls folder have folder's spliting the difirent images. 1 folder for anal, 1 folder for bdsm, 1 folder for combat, ETC. and inside the folders are the images.
i cant think of any other way to explain it....
I understood you the first time. Pics can be sorted by your OS based on their name, I am not sure that what you suggest will help making packs process any easier. If you are having trouble building or editing girlpacks, you likely do not know all tricks and possibilities of Windows (I assume you're are not using Linux/MacOS).
I have some tricks explained in my thread, otherwise can you tell me what exactly you find inconvenient about system we have now? Maybe I can offer some advice on how to work around those problems.
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its purely an idea for ease of use, when the number of pics gets above...20? it gets a little hectic in the folder yes you can sort by name, but windows sometimes sorts the numbers wrong.
also its easyer to SEE the pics while you are in there, if you set view to diffirent things can help but once again after you get to around 40 pics even in "list" it can get a little confusing when the image name overlaps into the next column.
sorting the images into folders just makes this easier,faster and less confusing.
EDIT: also what types of images can the game use? png? jpg? jpeg?
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Easiest way to make it have the numbers in the correct order is to shift/ctrl-click everything in a category then batch rename them so they're all numbered in the exact same scheme that windows prefers and recognizes. What confuses it is the different numbering schemes. ( "BDSM (1).jpg through "BDSM (#).jpg" will go before "BDSM#.jpg" iirc)
With multiple folders, tweaking things and moving between categories becomes much more of a chore.
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Easiest way to make it have the numbers in the correct order is to shift/ctrl-click everything in a category then batch rename them so they're all numbered in the exact same scheme that windows prefers and recognizes. What confuses it is the different numbering schemes. ( "BDSM (1).jpg through "BDSM (#).jpg" will go before "BDSM#.jpg" iirc)
With multiple folders, tweaking things and moving between categories becomes much more of a chore.
how so?
i cant see any reason why it makes things harder by having the images split into there designated folders it just clears the view for easyer modifying.
i just finished modifying 2 girls adding 15 images to 1 and 24 to the other. with the first girl i added the 15 images the normal way moving renaming and sorting.this took ~15 minutes. i had 6 errors in the process all renamed wrong. call me an idiot all you want.
i than edited the second girl (the 24 images) by making folders for each image type (Anal, BDSM etc) dragged and dropped batch renamed BAM! done in less than 5 minutes, 0 errors, perfect! also dragged and dropped the images back into the normal folder. if that's not easyer/faster/clearer/smarter than what is?
please do explain HOW THE HELL dose it make it harder? its supost to make it easyer, AND IT DOSE!
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It's an extra step in the sorting process that's not really needed. I've made and edited many girl packs and never really had an issue with sorting them in the existing system. One issue with the system you're recommending is that when editing/browsing/tinkering or what have you, you're having to go up and down one directory level every time that you want to access a particular category, as opposed to just being able to look.
As far as these errors you mention when working with the existing system, could you perhaps explain these in greater detail?
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It's an extra step in the sorting process that's not really needed. I've made and edited many girl packs and never really had an issue with sorting them in the existing system. One issue with the system you're recommending is that when editing/browsing/tinkering or what have you, you're having to go up and down one directory level every time that you want to access a particular category, as opposed to just being able to look.
As far as these errors you mention when working with the existing system, could you perhaps explain these in greater detail?
it may be 1 extra step but you only have to do it once, once its sorted into the folders its as easy as macros... drop the images into there respected folders, go inside press [ctrl] + [A] batch rename them than go back and into the next folder. it may seems easy enough now with 10-20 pictures but when you hit numbers like 40-50 like i have it harder to go through. i can't explain it enough for you how much easyer and neater it is to do this way.
its like saying we should just remove all of the folders and have all the pictures in the main folder just named like this "girlbdsm1.jpg". COULD YOU IMAGING HOW HARD THAT WOULD BE? sifting through hundreds of pictures?
just drop it i give up, no point in making thing easyer is there? ill just stick to making the folders manualy every time,because its 3x faster than the normal way.
and the "error" was me renaming things wrong EG adding extra numbers or spaces where they are not needed witch is easy to do with that many pictures.
Lastly, could someone PLEASE tell me what type of pictures the game can load? Im getting fed up of having to edit the pictures into .jpg format
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Yeah, at least making girls packs definitely will be slightly easier. Still, we can live without it, so it's up to Aika.
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Yeah, at least making girls packs definitely will be slightly easier. Still, we can live without it, so it's up to Aika.
FINALLY someone who's not blind :D
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Boo... just because someone disagrees with you does not make them 'blind'. There's no need to take a condescending tone about this. I have a different method that works quickly for me and have had issues in the past where going too far with sub-directories slows the process down. In particular, when I make a pack I set it to a medium-large thumbnail size, scroll down and ctrl+click the images for a particular category. When I have them all, I right click on one of them and select 'rename' and type in the category. 'Anal', 'BDSM', etc. Windows will automatically append a number in parenthesis to each file after the category name, which leaves little room for the kind of error you're describing.
As someone who often takes packs others have made and edits them, removing pictures and changing picture sizes, this would be a huge inconvenience for me personally. I would have to open each folder, select all of the images, then 'resize pictures', as opposed to doing it once to the entire gallery.
Again. Different...not 'blind'.
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BOOO... too you too i was JOKING. you do it your way ill do it mine as i said iv given up, if you like sifting through things rather than them already being seperated YOUR PROBLEM. ;)
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ok after asking twice i gave up and tested myself. the game only loads .jpg and .jpeg, it dose not load .png
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ok after asking twice i gave up and tested myself. the game only loads .jpg and .jpeg, it dose not load .png
Aika will fix .png, It is fairly easy to do. But stick with .jpg, it is safer :)
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Aika will fix .png, It is fairly easy to do. But stick with .jpg, it is safer :)
Yeah stick with .jpg but on the 1st page akia says he has .png support in the newest patch. On the change to sorting system only change I have planed is the one anon did that allowed you to sort girls by show or game. Akia may go further with it idk.
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I'm not dead yet, just had a huge English 102 paper consume my free time for a bit. I'll have the weekend to code a bit, I'll go through and answer questions I haven't been able to get to then (I'm not ignoring anyone, I swear!).
Quick answers to recent questions:
I know what went wrong with loading .pngs, I just haven't uploaded the fix yet. Expect the patch this weekend, and updated source. Remember that you can only have one picture named Profile1, Profile2, BDSM5, or whatever, even if the two pictures are not of the same type. I'm not sure if it would favor the jpeg, the png, or just crash the game if you had more than one picture with the same numeric but different extension. Just... don't do it.
No, I'm not going through the coding headache of figuring out how to make the game load from different folders for each image type. Maybe crazy will for MMX, but I won't be touching that anytime soon.
On the Type# vs. Type(#) picture naming convention, please use Type#. It won't break preg picture categories. The game has a very specific way of handling preg(variant)# pictures, and will not load any preg pictures at all that have the Type(#) format. Or Type (#). Or any variation of the format that isn't Type#. The way the game sorts preg pictures will exclude any picture that doesn't fit the expected format exactly. Seriously, make things easier on both of us and just use Type# please.
If I missed your question, please don't take it personally. I'm just very busy right now.
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I have a question. Is there a list somewhere that would give me a general idea of what stat(s) makes a girl good or bad at a particular job? The skills are pretty straightforward, except for service skills. The stats however are a little more opaque, especially when thinking about the non-sex related jobs.
I ask because it occurred to me that some stats could be more valuable than others. For example, Charisma seems like it could apply to a ton of jobs, whereas the usefulness of Mana seems much more limited.
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I have a question. Is there a list somewhere that would give me a general idea of what stat(s) makes a girl good or bad at a particular job? The skills are pretty straightforward, except for service skills. The stats however are a little more opaque, especially when thinking about the non-sex related jobs.
I ask because it occurred to me that some stats could be more valuable than others. For example, Charisma seems like it could apply to a ton of jobs, whereas the usefulness of Mana seems much more limited.
easiest way is to look at the source coe for each job, tells you which stats determine # of customers served and which stats affect pay
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easiest way is to look at the source coe for each job, tells you which stats determine # of customers served and which stats affect pay
Just don't forget to add that most of the code is very well commented. Not everyone can read C++ but there is a lot explained in plain English in comments.
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have been reading through some of the files to find the requirements for jobs...nothing yet BUT i found something that interests me....
" // Mana
// Set threshold at 20 as that is what is required to charm a customer to sleep with a girl"
its found in "cbrothel.cpp", somewhere near the matron section around the middle of the file. altho i dont understand it fully, could someone explain?
my next issue is temporary stats mainly libideo. for some reason equipment gives temporery stats that can be ignored to the point where a stat can be replaced just by un-equiping and re-equiping the piece of equipment. kinda dumb. i think i brought this up before.
still looking for the job infos ill post if i find em!
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" // Mana
// Set threshold at 20 as that is what is required to charm a customer to sleep with a girl"
its found in "cbrothel.cpp", somewhere near the matron section around the middle of the file. altho i dont understand it fully, could someone explain?
This doesn't do much, a simple check if a girl should use mana restoring item if she has one. There could be another check somewhere where a girl can charm costumer, I am not familiar enough with the code to know for sure where and if it actually works.
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easiest way is to look at the source coe for each job, tells you which stats determine # of customers served and which stats affect pay
True, and given enough time I will answer my own question. But I figured I'd ask on the off chance that someone else already had the knew.
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all i have found in the source code is the "results" of jobs (the benefits for working are kinda pathetic from what i can see, you never gain more than 2 stats mostly being libido) ill keep looking tho...
EDIT: after taking a fresh look i found it right away.
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i must be missing something. most jobs don't use any skills! yes, i think i am looking at the wrong thing all i can find is what is needed for more customers. jobs like matron/torturer don't have any "normal" benefits, but other jobs display what is needed to increase customers or results (like cleaning or security).
from the look of this code:
// Complication
if(g_Dice%100 <= 10)completing the matron task is pure luck, no stats included in the calculation. so is that a base 10% success chance?
And the same goes for torturer:
// Complications
if(g_Dice%100 <= 10)im missing something right? after a second glance these must be more somewhere elce. these look like the chance of the girl liking the job, if so, i still don't like it.
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from the look of this code:
// Complication
if(g_Dice%100 <= 10)completing the matron task is pure luck, no stats included in the calculation. so is that a base 10% success chance?
And the same goes for torturer:
// Complications
if(g_Dice%100 <= 10)im missing something right? after a second glance these must be more somewhere elce. these look like the chance of the girl liking the job, if so, i still don't like it.
Matron job isn't handled there it's handled somewhere else. But what your looking at is old jobs the new jobs akia is coding are way more involved. Skills are mostly used for sex or combat jobs as only one skill isn't for them and that is service.
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Matron job isn't handled there it's handled somewhere else. But what your looking at is old jobs the new jobs akia is coding are way more involved. Skills are mostly used for sex or combat jobs as only one skill isn't for them and that is service.
ha ha, now i am even more confused. so is it true that there only a base 10% chance a girl will do the matron job "well"? and no stats help in the chance of her liking the job?
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ha ha, now i am even more confused. so is it true that there only a base 10% chance a girl will do the matron job "well"? and no stats help in the chance of her liking the job?
No there is a 10% chance something will go wrong. As I said most of the matron job is handle in cJobManager.cpp not in what your looking at.
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oh ok thanks, little less confused now :D
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So, correct me if I'm wrong, but as I've been trying to get a better understanding of the game I came across the following code in WorkBarSinger.cpp:
int customers = 0;
if (g_Girls.GetStat(girl, STAT_CONFIDENCE) > 0)
customers += (g_Girls.GetStat(girl, STAT_CONFIDENCE)/25);
if (g_Girls.GetStat(girl, STAT_INTELLIGENCE) > 0)
customers += (g_Girls.GetStat(girl, STAT_SPIRIT)/25);
customers++;
Shouldn't the fifth line read "customers += (g_Girls.GetStat(girl, STAT_INTELLIGENCE)/25);" instead?
It looks to me like the second if statement will check if a girl's intelligence greater than 0, and then measure how many customers she can handle based off her spirit. Is this correct, or am I not understanding something about how this should work?
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So, correct me if I'm wrong, but as I've been trying to get a better understanding of the game I came across the following code in WorkBarSinger.cpp:
int customers = 0;
if (g_Girls.GetStat(girl, STAT_CONFIDENCE) > 0)
customers += (g_Girls.GetStat(girl, STAT_CONFIDENCE)/25);
if (g_Girls.GetStat(girl, STAT_INTELLIGENCE) > 0)
customers += (g_Girls.GetStat(girl, STAT_SPIRIT)/25);
customers++;
Shouldn't the fifth line read "customers += (g_Girls.GetStat(girl, STAT_INTELLIGENCE)/25);" instead?
It looks to me like the second if statement will check if a girl's intelligence greater than 0, and then measure how many customers she can handle based off her spirit. Is this correct, or am I not understanding something about how this should work?
I don't think this will have an actual impact. Aika wanted to make Spirit as a leading stat for singers and so he did. I've never seen a girl in WM with intelligence at 0 so the code will work as intended. It's should not cause any bugs or problems under normal circumstances but since you've caught it...
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@xela
I agree that it's not a game breaking issue. Also spirit makes sense as a leading stat for singers.
That aside I've noticed a few other things:
Loading a game sets the brothel happiness value to about 50. An easy way to test this is to create a new game (brothel happiness =0) and then save and load. The brothel reputation will update to medium, and if you open the save file and look at the brothel happiness stat it will be 48.
This means that to make any progress on increasing brothel fame (increasing brothel fame requires brothel happiness to be > 75) you must do so by playing without loading. A good way to discourage save scamming I suppose.
Another issue is that having a girl work the customer service job appears to prevent brothel happiness from increasing, or allow only very small changes. To test this I created a brothel with 11 (edited to be very overpowered) girls, and set the following for both shifts:
3 barmaids
2 singers
2 waitresses
1 matron
1 security
1 cleaning
The starting brothel happiness was 53, and it was virtually guaranteed that all customers on both shifts would be served. If the 11th girl had free time for both shifts, then after about 11 turns brothel happiness would be >75 (reputation = high). If the 11th girl was assigned to customer service, then the brothel happiness would still be 53 after 11 turns.
I didn't do exhaustive testing of this. So I don't know if this has to do with a customer service girl getting no unhappy customers, or if this will also prevent brothel happiness from decreasing.
Both of these tests were performed in v2.10 of Akia's mod.
Has anyone else seen either of these issues?
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:o you'd make an awesome betatester. Catching these types of bugs is not an easy task. I doubt anyone pays this close attention to a patch in the middle of development cycle so job well done!
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Thanks. :)
I'll probably have more to say about balancing the game, the girls and changes in general once I've completed my review of the game mechanics and have a useful grasp on how they work. It's a slow process, so I doubt I'll be done anytime soon, but I'll share my documentation with anyone who's interested once I've finished.
That said, I wasn't actually testing WM when I found these issues. I was trying to understand why I couldn't get any customers past the bar stage. Unlocking the more...interesting...jobs is an important part of WM, so I think both of these issues are pretty severe, but that's just my opinion.
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Thanks. :)
I'll probably have more to say about balancing the game, the girls and changes in general once I've completed my review of the game mechanics and have a useful grasp on how they work. It's a slow process, so I doubt I'll be done anytime soon, but I'll share my documentation with anyone who's interested once I've finished.
That said, I wasn't actually testing WM when I found these issues. I was trying to understand why I couldn't get any customers past the bar stage. Unlocking the more...interesting...jobs is an important part of WM, so I think both of these issues are pretty severe, but that's just my opinion.
??? I though that was WM:EX issue? I haven't tried Aika's patch yet... do you have to send girls to work in bar before unlocking other jobs? I played one of the earlier Aika's versions, that was not the case.
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??? I though that was WM:EX issue? I haven't tried Aika's patch yet... do you have to send girls to work in bar before unlocking other jobs? I played one of the earlier Aika's versions, that was not the case.
Yes that is correct. I'm playing with 2.10 of akia's mod, not WM EX. The way unlocking jobs works as I understand it is as follows:
1. You must increase your brothel happiness by serving most of the customers you attract. You can get a poor view of this stat by watching your brothel reputation. Low means last turns happiness was less than 25, Medium means happiness was 26 - 74, and High means it was 75 - 100. This variable resists change somewhat, so it shouldn't fluctuate wildly from turn to turn. Customer service should reduce the penalty for unserviced customers, but I don't think it is doing that correctly.
2. After brothel happiness is >75, brothel fame will begin to increase. If I understand these mechanics correctly, then fame will increase by 1 per turn, unless brothel happiness is 100, which will get you 2 per turn.
3. You must then maintain brothel happiness until you reach the landmark fame values. Which are 20 (gambling hall available), 60 (sleazy bar available) and 90 (brothel available). You can get a poor view of how much fame your brothel has by watching the number of additional customers it attracts, which increases by 1 for every 4 fame.
The general rule of thumb is that if brothel reputation is high, you are gaining fame. So by keeping reputation high for long enough, and you can go from Barmaster to Whoremaster.
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do you have to send girls to work in bar before unlocking other jobs? I played one of the earlier Aika's versions, that was not the case.
yes, what you have to do is increase the reputation of your "brothel" by having the bar used. tham add more girls for the new "attractions" that your customers demand. when you do well in the bar you "unlock the sleezy bar BUT its not an upgrade! you still need to keep the bar going to continue. after that you unlock the brothel, i have NEVER managed to do this i end up fucking up somewhere and everything falling into itself because my "reputation" SUDDENLY drops to 0.
i look at it like pyramid, brothel at the top, sleezy in the middle and bar at the bottom. when 1 thing goes wrong below everything above suffers.
hah! i completly forgot about the casino!
aikas reason for this is
You're not publically running a brothel. You don't want the authorities to really know what you're doing in the back rooms. When the authorities get suspicious that something shady is going on in that bar of yours, they raid the place. So you want to keep the place as low-key as possible. The bar acts as a front, and as a screen. The Average Joes that come in to get drunk never know there's more than a bar, that there's a casino, sleazy bar, and brothel in the back, but those people that know to ask the right kind of questions will start to figure it out, and as your reputation increases you'll start to attract those kind of people. Advertising isn't so much telling everyone that you have a brothel, but rather greasing the right palms to get the word around to the right people.
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Well, it's a matter of choice...
I reject all games made in that manner but noone can make a game everyone will like so it's a good thing that there are other options out there.
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After careful playing I've confirmed that it is possible to get past the bar stage in v2.10. To do this you need to play without loading (saving is okay, if you want to open the save file and check the brothel stats) and never use the customer service job. Then it's simply a matter of assigning your girls in a way that guarantees that most of your customers will get what they came for. Without the customer service job, keeping your girls properly staffed in the right job on the right shifts requires that you play close attention to the end of turn reports.
As a side note, with things the way they are, the advertising job is actually actively bad for you. Unless I've misunderstood the math, perfectly serving 10 customers will update your brothel happiness/fame by the same amount as perfectly serving 100 customers. Furthermore, advertising attracts more customers without increasing your numbers of girls, which in turn increases the average number of customers that each girl must serve in order to maintain high brothel happiness.
I do admit that more customers means more income, so advertising isn't all bad. But selling off excess items/monster girls from the catacombs makes such a huge amount of gold that any other income is irrelevant.
Fortunately brothel fame isn't normalized when loading a game. So, depending upon how strict you are about cheating, you can edit the brothel fame in the save file to 100, which will unlock all jobs. I haven't tested if brothel fame will decrease if you do an abysmal job at meeting your customers demands, so you may need to make sure your brothel doesn't faceplant to keep your new found fame...
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well its been a whole month since the last update...
nice testing number76, i always thought it was my failure at managing 50+ girls that fucked up my plays. but now i know its saving and loading that dose it, i now have a fully working brothel withe over 50 working girls day and night (over 100 girls now...the management has gotten out of hand there is no way to handle the equipment of all these girls)
i have recently been playing around with the "house" slider and relying on girls to buy there own equipment. so far i noticed girls like to sell equipment they dont use(i dont know if they sell or if they just vanish) BUT i dont know how to check if they are getting anything for them without opening the save file... my next issue is limited sock in the shops.
if there is one thing broken about this game it is the items, there are waaaayyyy too many items that are pointless, i went through and deleted over 30 items due to me thinking they are pointless. i have recently gone through again and removed over 15 more because i think they are useless. the main reason for this is because most items are "balanced" by only giving low stats, but than there's items that are just STUPIDLY BROKEN, like the one that makes all sex stats max, and the one that breaks will instantly and is in the shop almost every week.
i am going to go more "indepth" by forcing girls to buy there own items by giving them more gold too see what happens..
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I guess it's time to give an update on what happened to me and where I've been.
As some of you may know, I'm a college student. This summer, I was taking summer classes and working to make ends meet. This did not leave me any time to work on any of my projects, this being one of them.
Once I started to come back to this project and work on it again, my main computer, which I had tens of hours of work on that I hadn't uploaded to my svn yet, had a hard drive failure, and all that work is unrecoverable. My backup computer was only updated to my svn's version, which hadn't been updated. So I set this on the back burner for a while even after summer classes ended and I was able to scale back my job from full time to part time when fall classes started.
So right now I'm looking through threads, reading about the bugs in my version, and trying to set up my main computer's programming environments again after replacing the hard drive.
Crazy, if you're still working on the combined mod, I apologize for disappearing. I just suddenly didn't have any time. :/
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So, correct me if I'm wrong, but as I've been trying to get a better understanding of the game I came across the following code in WorkBarSinger.cpp:
int customers = 0;
if (g_Girls.GetStat(girl, STAT_CONFIDENCE) > 0)
customers += (g_Girls.GetStat(girl, STAT_CONFIDENCE)/25);
if (g_Girls.GetStat(girl, STAT_INTELLIGENCE) > 0)
customers += (g_Girls.GetStat(girl, STAT_SPIRIT)/25);
customers++;
Shouldn't the fifth line read "customers += (g_Girls.GetStat(girl, STAT_INTELLIGENCE)/25);" instead?
It looks to me like the second if statement will check if a girl's intelligence greater than 0, and then measure how many customers she can handle based off her spirit. Is this correct, or am I not understanding something about how this should work?
I think I fixed that disparity, you're looking at outdated source.
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@xela
I agree that it's not a game breaking issue. Also spirit makes sense as a leading stat for singers.
That aside I've noticed a few other things:
Loading a game sets the brothel happiness value to about 50. An easy way to test this is to create a new game (brothel happiness =0) and then save and load. The brothel reputation will update to medium, and if you open the save file and look at the brothel happiness stat it will be 48.
This means that to make any progress on increasing brothel fame (increasing brothel fame requires brothel happiness to be > 75) you must do so by playing without loading. A good way to discourage save scamming I suppose.
Another issue is that having a girl work the customer service job appears to prevent brothel happiness from increasing, or allow only very small changes. To test this I created a brothel with 11 (edited to be very overpowered) girls, and set the following for both shifts:
3 barmaids
2 singers
2 waitresses
1 matron
1 security
1 cleaning
The starting brothel happiness was 53, and it was virtually guaranteed that all customers on both shifts would be served. If the 11th girl had free time for both shifts, then after about 11 turns brothel happiness would be >75 (reputation = high). If the 11th girl was assigned to customer service, then the brothel happiness would still be 53 after 11 turns.
I didn't do exhaustive testing of this. So I don't know if this has to do with a customer service girl getting no unhappy customers, or if this will also prevent brothel happiness from decreasing.
Both of these tests were performed in v2.10 of Akia's mod.
Has anyone else seen either of these issues?
I can't figure out what's going wrong here. The customer service job doesn't do /anything/ to the brothel happiness stats if it doesn't handle any customers. Customers that aren't handled by anyone count as a 0 when the brothel's average happiness is calculated, customer service takes those customers that would have been a 0 and applies a bonus based on the girl's skills, and right now is bugged so that it's possible to get the average well over 100.
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glad to see you back aika. i kinda stopped playing as soon as you stopped updating. im ready to start "testing" when you are :D
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Is there still a chance for this to continue?
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A quick question. Were the game and patch files on Mediafire taken down by the creator or the domain moderators?