Pink Petal Games
Game Discussion => General Discussion & Download => Topic started by: LordJerle on September 19, 2010, 01:08:00 AM
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Counterfeiting_Trade_Agreement
Write in with a resounding "VOTE NO!" to your local representative. It's a bunch of crap. This proposal would also pretty well put extreme limitations on freeware and open source software distribution, as I understand it.
Many free and open source software sites would be impacted, including the SVN currently hosting WM, as well as sourceforge in general.
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As one of the people who is disgusted with the amount of piracy in the world...
no
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As one of the people who is disgusted with the amount of piracy in the world...
no
As one of the people who firmly believes in net neutrality and free and open source software, as well as my basic civil liberties and right to privacy, I'm disgusted by the people who think that the internet should become filled with gestapo bursting in digital doorways for no other reason than somebody downloaded a song because they wanted to see if an album was worth buying.
I'm pasting over the speech I made on the wave, because I think it's rather good and provides key discussion points.
As it reads now, WM is screwed, as it opens images that may or may not be copyrighted. Free alternative software, such as VLC and Open Office would be screwed as well. It also opens the door for the digital gestapo's bursting in doorways because you downloaded a song to see if a new album was any good, or because you downloaded an episode you missed of a show you watch because you worked late, or any number of other reasons. If this is given ground to walk on, the net as we know it, is utterly finished. Many LEGAL software companies use torrents to distribute patches and the like to decrease server load, which would be nixed under that bill due to it also being a method for illegal distribution. I urge everybody to write in to their federal government and say "NO! WE WANT OUR RIGHTS, WE WANT OUR PRIVACY! FIND ANOTHER WAY! THIS IS WRONG!"
Rather passionate, but I believe my privacy should not be compromised just because there's enough greedy people in the world that have the power to take it. I believe free software is just as good as software bought in the store, and I believe, most of all, that we need to fight this.
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As one of the people who firmly believes in net neutrality and free and open source software, as well as my basic civil liberties and right to privacy, I'm disgusted by the people who think that the internet should become filled with gestapo bursting in digital doorways for no other reason than somebody downloaded a song because they wanted to see if an album was worth buying.
I'm pasting over the speech I made on the wave, because I think it's rather good and provides key discussion points.
As it reads now, WM is screwed, as it opens images that may or may not be copyrighted. Free alternative software, such as VLC and Open Office would be screwed as well. It also opens the door for the digital gestapo's bursting in doorways because you downloaded a song to see if a new album was any good, or because you downloaded an episode you missed of a show you watch because you worked late, or any number of other reasons. If this is given ground to walk on, the net as we know it, is utterly finished. Many LEGAL software companies use torrents to distribute patches and the like to decrease server load, which would be nixed under that bill due to it also being a method for illegal distribution. I urge everybody to write in to their federal government and say "NO! WE WANT OUR RIGHTS, WE WANT OUR PRIVACY! FIND ANOTHER WAY! THIS IS WRONG!"
Rather passionate, but I believe my privacy should not be compromised just because there's enough greedy people in the world that have the power to take it. I believe free software is just as good as software bought in the store, and I believe, most of all, that we need to fight this.
Silly... you have 'no reasonable expectation of privacy' in your own home when you're on your phone. Why would you think you have any expectation of privacy on your computer?
Beyond that, why would you think that representatives represent you? They represent their wallets and always act in their interests.
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Silly... you have 'no reasonable expectation of privacy' in your own home when you're on your phone. Why would you think you have any expectation of privacy on your computer?
Beyond that, why would you think that representatives represent you? They represent their wallets and always act in their interests.
I don't talk on my phone that much for that very reason. Only thing I use my phone for is the occasional text message and job interview/seeking related calls.
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I'm so sorry that I believe people never did have the right to acquire and redistribute stolen goods.
The internet has largely been an anarchic state since its inception, and now that's changing to mirror the basic expectations of most societies. You steal, you go to jail. You assist in the redistribution of stolen goods, you go to jail.
That's pretty much all she wrote.
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I'm so sorry that I believe people never did have the right to acquire and redistribute stolen goods.
The internet has largely been an anarchic state since its inception, and now that's changing to mirror the basic expectations of most societies. You steal, you go to jail. You assist in the redistribution of stolen goods, you go to jail.
That's pretty much all she wrote.
AAAAAND blocked for annoying me with self righteous bullshit and fat cat ignorance and entirely missing the point of the topic.
ANY FREE SOFTWARE THAT'S USED TO OPEN A COPYRIGHTED ITEM THAT YOU LEGALLY OWN WILL NO LONGER BE ABLE TO OPEN SAID PRODUCT.
For example, you will no longer be able to play your DVD's on VLC Media Player. You will no longer be able to open Word documents in Open Office. You will no longer be able to put girl pictures in WM due to them potentially being copyrighted.
If you did not read that sentence in any of the previous posts, you did not read anything I wrote and you're just trolling.
So.
Blocked.
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Mature.
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ANY FREE SOFTWARE THAT'S USED TO OPEN A COPYRIGHTED ITEM THAT YOU LEGALLY OWN WILL NO LONGER BE ABLE TO OPEN SAID PRODUCT.
That's absolutely ludicrous. What're they going to magic your programs corrupt? That's like saying the government's going to pass a law banning the sale of jelly beans and so all the Jelly Bellys you've got stored in your house will suddenly disappear in a puff of logic.
For example, you will no longer be able to play your DVD's on VLC Media Player.
The problem with this is that the people who own the copyrights on DVD's *want* you to be able to watch them. Free programs that let you watch things you've legitimately obtained won't upset them.
You will no longer be able to open Word documents in Open Office.
There is a point to be made regarding programs with their own proprietary file type, but even that is easily worked around if the free program merely uses its own file type.
You will no longer be able to put girl pictures in WM due to them potentially being copyrighted.
This is true, aside from the fact that it's already a gray area as to whether use of the pictures is allowed *now*. Varying shades of gray, depending on whether you're taking into consideration simply whether the pictures themselves have copyrights, whether the artist gives consent, and if the copyrights of the companies on the characters themselves come into play.
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I'm so sorry that I believe people never did have the right to acquire and redistribute stolen goods.
I'm fairly certain that there are already laws making theft (and copyright infringement too, for that matter) illegal. If that's all that ACTA is about then it can safely be scrapped right now.
You steal, you go to jail. You assist in the redistribution of stolen goods, you go to jail.
You infringe copyright you go to jail. Just out of curiosity, do you actually play WhoreMaster, Starry?
Do you have a copy on your computer? Because I'm fairly sure most if not all of those naughty images are copyright SomeoneElse and you downloaded them without permission.
No doubt you'll do the honourable thing and turn yourself in as soon as the treaty is enacted in to law. Be sure and ask for a south facing jail cell.
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I'm fairly certain that there are already laws making theft (and copyright infringement too, for that matter) illegal. If that's all that ACTA is about then it can safely be scrapped right now.
I know it's not the point you were making, but the ACTA is a proposal to dictate *international* law, which is at best hazy and at worst non-existent when it comes to copyright law.
I feel a bit bad for Starry, because although I think the ACTA is a laughably horrible proposal, I agree that piracy (and the mindset [of a great deal] of the people who indulge in it) is out of control. I'm certainly no paragon when it comes to downloading; I've used torrents to get many a TV show, movie, or game, but I never felt *entitled* about it... as though downloading anything I wanted was a right that the government was somehow trying to wrest from me with unfair legislation. I do my fair share of rationalizing, saying that I'm testing things, and if they're good enough I'll buy them, or that it's something I would never have *paid for* anyway; and quite often that's true, but it still doesn't give me the *right*.
That said, the ACTA reaches well beyond the scope of managing unauthorized use of copyrighted material and could potentially do a great deal of harm to the future development of freeware products
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You infringe copyright you go to jail. Just out of curiosity, do you actually play WhoreMaster, Starry?
Do you have a copy on your computer? Because I'm fairly sure most if not all of those naughty images are copyright SomeoneElse and you downloaded them without permission.
No doubt you'll do the honourable thing and turn yourself in as soon as the treaty is enacted in to law. Be sure and ask for a south facing jail cell.
More often than I like, although I do not currently have a copy.
If I turned myself in they'd laugh at me and tell me to go home. The people knowingly distributing illegal content are a different matter.
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If I turned myself in they'd laugh at me and tell me to go home. The people knowingly distributing illegal content are a different matter.
So while (apparently) copyright violation is the same thing as theft, and stealing is bad, you don't have a problem with your stealing because you're unlikely to be prosecuted, so that makes it ok?
That sounds awfully like a double standard to me.
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No.
I have a problem with it. That's why I don't have WM.
It's an addictive enough game I'd love to keep it, but I can't.
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This looks like an attempt to harmonize copyright law. While I don't think that's a bad thing the secrecy is a concern for abuse. Also invariably this will create an attempt for the US to push it's lifetime+70 copyright laws on everyone else. My concern is that it will be an attempt for public domain to never grow again.
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Before I call it a day I will mention the ridiculousness of suggesting that people who've done one wrong thing should turn themselves in. That would be everyone on Earth.
But that's enough from me on the topic. Take care of yourselves.
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Before I call it a day I will mention the ridiculousness of suggesting that people who've done one wrong thing should turn themselves in. That would be everyone on Earth.
Just those preaching from the moral high ground. I mean right is right and wrong is wrong, right? If you're honest (unlike us thieves) then it doesn't seem unrasonable to expect you to comply with the law.
This looks like an attempt to harmonize copyright law.
It's a bit more than that. There's enhanced DMCR provisions; requiring sites to proactively police their content for copyright violations (which would kill YouTube and Flickr and the like); applying all this to trademarks as well; requiring ISPs to cut you off on the simple accusation of infringement (no evidence required)
It really is a very nasty piece of work if the leaked material is anything at all to go by.
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No.
I have a problem with it. That's why I don't have WM.
It's an addictive enough game I'd love to keep it, but I can't.
wait, let me get this straight
you have a problem with the images used being copyrighted, so you do not even have a copy of the game on your pc, because that would be stealing
and you are still here?
also, the entire concept of piracy is too vague to be subject to any serious laws, imo
if I take a music cd from my friend, and rip it on my pc, do I go to jail?
the cd belongs to him, and he gave it to me, and I just copied the contents for my own personal use
what about if I give what I ripped to another friend? am I distributing copyrighted material?
how about if I copy some pages from my book, and give it to a friend? he didn't pay for it
are my kids breaking the law by tracing over a copyrighted drawing or a picture?
what about karaoke? public performance is banned by copyright law
now, draw the parallel between my friend giving me his dvd to watch, and someone buying the dvd and sharing it with over the net
what about streaming? streaming a movie is against the law, yet it is the same as watching it with people
you had to buy the movie, and you do not profit from it
not to mention that 80% of people crying about piracy buy used/rent, "stealing" from whatever industry as much as pirates
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The only way they can really enforce that is either to completely blow all American privacy out the wazoo - or make it completely international. I may not agree with what they do, but the pirate bay has some very strong arguments in their defense - and those are the kind of people these laws are meant to stop.
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The only way they can really enforce that is either to completely blow all American privacy out the wazoo - or make it completely international.
I expect they'll compromise, and blow international privacy out the wazoo.
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There will always be one country (or more) that refuse - and the only way to enforce it on them is war (that I know of) even if all the countries in the world managed to agree (and what are the odds of that) the real pirates will find some safe harbor (middle of the ocean maybe)
not trying to be pessimistic, but I am a huge believer in both human ingenuity and human stupidity. :D
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if I take a music cd from my friend, and rip it on my pc, do I go to jail?
That's a bit of a extreme reaction, but to answer the underlying question: Yes, that is illegal, as is your sharing it with more people down the line. Your friend playing the music for you or even allowing you to borrow the CD is fine, but the line is crossed when you make an unlicensed copy for your own use.
what about karaoke? public performance is banned by copyright law
Karaoke versions of songs are licensed from the original artists with the understanding that they will be used in a public forum, all fair and legal.
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That's a bit of a extreme reaction, but to answer the underlying question: Yes, that is illegal, as is your sharing it with more people down the line. Your friend playing the music for you or even allowing you to borrow the CD is fine, but the line is crossed when you make an unlicensed copy for your own use.
see, I understand the logic behind that, but where is the legal foundation for such laws?
it's my property, I bought, I am not making a profit from it, and I do not directly affect the rights owners, or their income
see the book example, it's basically the same thing
Karaoke versions of songs are licensed from the original artists with the understanding that they will be used in a public forum, all fair and legal.
my bad
though, now that I think about it, how would acta work? does the copyright owner/holder have to press charges for infringement, or do you automatically answer to the law?
There will always be one country (or more) that refuse - and the only way to enforce it on them is war (that I know of) even if all the countries in the world managed to agree (and what are the odds of that) the real pirates will find some safe harbor (middle of the ocean maybe)
there are lots of ways to pressure countries into submission
and I think the middle of the ocean is subject to international law, just saying
(http://pinkpetal.org/data:image/gif,GIF89a%12%00%12%00%B3%00%00%FF%FF%FF%F7%F7%EF%CC%CC%CC%BD%BE%BD%99%99%99ZYZRUR%00%00%00%FE%01%02%00%00%00%00%00%00%00%00%00%00%00%00%00%00%00%00%00%00%00%00%00%21%F9%04%04%14%00%FF%00%2C%00%00%00%00%12%00%12%00%00%04X0%C8I%2B%1D8%EB%3D%E4%00%60%28%8A%85%17%0AG*%8C%40%19%7C%00J%08%C4%B1%92%26z%C76%FE%02%07%C2%89v%F0%7Dz%C3b%C8u%14%82V5%23o%A7%13%19L%BCY-%25%7D%A6l%DF%D0%F5%C7%02%85%5B%D82%90%CBT%87%D8i7%88Y%A8%DB%EFx%8B%DE%12%01%00%3B)
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Middle of the ocean is - but just ask the coast guard how easy it is to enforce out there.
Those who believe strongly that if they Can get it for free, they Should get it for free, will do what they can to live that way - regardless of what the law or ethics or even common courtesy says.
to maul a popular phrase - Pirates gonna pirate (the real pirates I mean)
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see, I understand the logic behind that, but where is the legal foundation for such laws?
it's my property, I bought, I am not making a profit from it, and I do not directly affect the rights owners, or their income
see the book example, it's basically the same thing
Copyright law. If your friend copies a CD they're making an unauthorised copy. You play it in public, you own performance royalties, and so on.
Personally, I think we're well beyond the point now where copyright has any meaningful benefit to society as a whole, and the sooner the whole shebang is abolished the better. In the meantime though, that's how it works.
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Yeah, but can you imagine the anarchy if we simply abolished it?
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Yeah but they're attempting to go overboard with enforcement. Way overboard. I mean, you won't be able to open up copyrighted content with freeware anymore. That includes freeware operating systems like Linux, which means certain doom for companies that host little things like dedicated gaming servers.
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Yeah, but can you imagine the anarchy if we simply abolished it?
You say "anarchy" I tend to think of rioting in the streets, widespread civil disorder, looting and burning, that sort of thing.
So, on that basis, the answer has to be "no".
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By anarchy I was actually picturing a sudden massive increase in the jobless, and all the very upset people that that would cause, not to mention all the fighting over IP if the current enforcement were to suddenly disappear. - and yeah, like a lot of gun control plans, they are WAY going overboard.
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By anarchy I was actually picturing a sudden massive increase in the jobless
Well, that needn't be sudden or massive, so far as I can see. You can say "we'll abolish copyright starting Jan 1, 2012" for instance, and give people and business a chance to prepare for the change.
A few corporations are going to have their profit margins substantially reduced, it is true, but that's preferable to letting turn the internet into a corporate walled garden in an attempt to preserve their market position.
and all the very upset people that that would cause,
That would be the RIAA, MPAA, and so on. Not that they're ever happy in the first place.
not to mention all the fighting over IP if the current enforcement were to suddenly disappear.
If there's no IP, what's to fight over? Everything becomes public domain. There's going to be something of a scramble to see who can produce various records and books the most cheaply, but that should be good for the economy on the whole.
and yeah, like a lot of gun control plans, they are WAY going overboard.
No argument there. Don't get me wrong, I'd be in favour of copyright reform. I just don't believe it'll ever happen. Any "reform" is going to end up bought and paid for by the IP cartels.
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ok, this is scary. I mean this could block free versions of anti spy/malware. or making your own CDs for personal use. or downloading a song because while you have it, the tracks weren't cut right (actually this is true). not to mention hard to find songs or music videos. heck, there has been research done, and the people who pirate the most music have been found to be those who buy the most music. heck there have been videos I've streamed because I couldn't rent them, so I could watch them, until I could buy them.( TV will always beet internet for quality).
to bad the government is corrupt and doesn't give a damn about what the people think or I would complain.
edit: this reminds me of a book I read recently (free online via the writer.) little brother it's only like 136 pages or so.
http://craphound.com/littlebrother/
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Came across this just now. It might be of interest to a few folks:
http://www.stopacta.info/
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Now that IS interesting...(reading it and more)
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And since we're on the subject ....
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100915/10324411026/mpaa-wants-to-know-if-acta-can-be-used-to-block-wikileaks.shtml
Same pattern here as the DMCA. Legislation that's proposed to deal with a specific case, and already vested interests are looking for ways to abuse it beyond the supposed intent.
I'm starting to think that this isn't intended to enforce copyright, so much to enable censorship.
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>.>
*Looks through current wireless network specs to see if it's still easy to connect to other peoples home networks with a wireless laptop*
*Weighs the moral ramifications of getting his neighbors in trouble by using their networks for bittorrent.*
<.<
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And since we're on the subject ....
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100915/10324411026/mpaa-wants-to-know-if-acta-can-be-used-to-block-wikileaks.shtml (http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100915/10324411026/mpaa-wants-to-know-if-acta-can-be-used-to-block-wikileaks.shtml)
Same pattern here as the DMCA. Legislation that's proposed to deal with a specific case, and already vested interests are looking for ways to abuse it beyond the supposed intent.
I'm starting to think that this isn't intended to enforce copyright, so much to enable censorship.
You know, people around here seem to think China's taking over the US with cheap products and services, seems to me that they may have put a few ideas in people's heads about censorship too.