Personality or Not?

[sgb]

I'm indifferent to the whole thing really.  I really think WM would be better off stopping development soon, as the game has more or less reached the goals of an unpaid project.  It wasn't meant to be some sort of grand RPG, it was meant to be a brothel sim with moddable content and a minor crime sub-theme.  Making all the new jobs functional and tweaking the difficulty a tad are really all that should be done.

All this other talk - dynamic gangs, massive overhauls of the skill system, girls taking on more combat roles, etc. - would honestly be best left for a new game.  A Whore Master 2, with an artist or 3 creating some original girls so you can sell it without getting in legal trouble (while leaving the moddability of course), seems like a more constructive use of developer time (and modivation!).  Then all these big ideas like arena combat and such would seem far more reasonable.

[necno]

I very much agree. All that really needs to be done is tweaking or finishing what is already there. The project grew way beyond what I originally intended and without the help of doc and the rest of the dev team it wouldn't be the game it is now. I have to give a special mention to dagoth who has done most of the fixes and updates for 1.30, not to mention keeping this forum in order .

[LordJerle]

I still say we should be able to do conjugal visits for girls in jail >.>

On a more serious note, Doc and I had a long convo about mods for various games, one of them being Oblivion.  The great thing about Oblivion is your character has no back story other than getting out of jail (unless you get the alternate start mod).  This allows you to think up your own, if you're into the roleplay aspect.  Your story is built as you play the game and perform various deeds.  Like saving Kvatch, for example.  After you save the city, you become known around Tamriel as the hero of Kvatch.  Or when you become arena champion.  People bring it up in conversations and it effects your standing, sometimes resulting in the ability to haggle with certain shops for a lower price than you would otherwise. 
What I'm trying to say is that you should have the ability to create your own back story then add to it as you play the game for a better feeling of immersion.  Like give several options, effecting (I'm assuming they'll be installed for the future combat system) stats, starting cash, your starting standing within the community, political power, and quality of starting brothels, then set it up so people can add options easily, via text file or modding app.
That's just my 2 cents as a gamer and former lead game administrator for a few games that catered to the player community overall, as I do feel WM is just as player driven as any MUD I've played or ran.

[crazy]

I see no point in the game stopping development all the devs working on the game right now want to work on it they each have good ideals for the game and people still want new things in the game.  Why stop and make Whore Master 2 when they can just extend on whats already there and make it Whore Master 2.  If anything i would like to see more devs working on the game cause there's so much to add and only a few working.

Back on topic i think having a defined personality is the way to go.  Doc has full plans to make the game script easy to mod so there's really no point in people say that he has to do it one way or the other let him do it how he wants and if you don't like it it will be a simple thing to change.  I personally look forward to seeing his ideal for the MC.

[necno]

I very much doubt it will ever stop development. But I don't think that the newer features should be of importance just yet. If we try to develop all the great ideas people have come up with then we will end up with something unmanageable for the development team. We only need to focus on the features we are currently implementing, once they are done then we can look at new things.

Whoremaster 2 isn't in development and may never be. Whoremaster 1 couldn't ever become a sequel as it has technical limitations that would be a nightmare to try to get around. A sequel requires a lot of work, in some ways more than the original. Not to mention the design I have for a possible sequel is almost an entirely different game and would probably be released under a different name should it be developed.

[ShiningRadiance]

Apparently, exodia two isn't going to vote here or take part in the political aspects of this.

Oh well.

*Votes*

[DocClox]

I very much agree. All that really needs to be done is tweaking or finishing what is already there. The project grew way beyond what I originally intended and without the help of doc and the rest of the dev team it wouldn't be the game it is now.

Well, it's still your project so far as I'm concerned. Mind, finishing what is already there is stil quite a bit. Jobs, scripting, be a shame not to do the wards after all the work that's gone into it...

I suppose The question raised is how do we know when the game is finished? You're quire right in that if we keep expanding on it, then eventually we're going to complicate it to the point where it becomes unmaintainable or uplayable.

That said, projects like FreeCiv and Wesnoth don't seem to have this problem. But then again, maybe their scope was rather better defined in the first place, both of them being clones of existing games.

I have to give a special mention to dagoth who has done most of the   fixes and updates for 1.30, not to mention keeping this forum in order .

+1 to that. Dagoth has been a star.

[mothballd]

I'm in favor of a defined personality, but I'd still like some control over the pc's personality if possible, maybe just being able to choose a good vs. evil type.

[dalmedya]

That poll's too black-and-white. I'm all for having a personality, so long as that personality is defined by our actions (of course, we need to get the alignment thing working better for that).
I'm not going to vote because I disagree with BOTH options. But I do want Doc to stay.

[DocClox]

I'm in favor of a defined personality, but I'd still like some control over the pc's personality if possible, maybe just being able to choose a good vs. evil type.

Well, the idea would be to managre morality through dialogue choices.

So we'd aim to keep the tone morally neutral (or at least ambiguous) until such a time as the player decided how he wanted to handle a situation. Then, since we now know how the player wants to play this scene, we can deal somewhat more directly with the moral elements.

You can probably see what I mean in the "Nutt House" event I outlined a while back.

That poll's too black-and-white. I'm all for having a personality, so long as that personality is defined by our actions (of course, we need to get the alignment thing working better for that).
I'm not going to vote because I disagree with BOTH options. But I do want Doc to stay.

Yeah, with hindsight, I probably could have included a middle ground option.

As for me going; necno's in favour of getting the project into maintenance mode, and at about 60/40 the poll looks like it's going to be too close for me to be comfortable laying down the law. So I'm thinking I'll hang around long enough to get the scripting working and tie up a few loose ends. Realistically, that still leaves me working on WM for a month or three yet.

After that, I'm going to get clonemaster going properly

[d31r3x]

I could also mention that I've offered to write dialogue and story elements (whether I'll be taken up on that offer, we'll see) and while what I'm asked to write may not be exactly what I'd prefer, if I do get the opportunity, I'll be trying to give the developers whatever they ask for.

That sounds reasonable to me.

Relieving Doc of extra work seems to be a good idea, as lately he's on everything: coding, storyboard, thinking about quests, adding LUA support, helping with bug fixes (even dealing with forum controversy)...
It would be great if Doc only had to think a little about it, draw some major lines of the great picture and then let some other fellow 'flesh the bones'. That would require this poor fellow writing several versions, then Doc would decide wich one suits better what he had in mind -maybe some corrections / feedback- and then just Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V.
If you think you can do a decent work as dialogue writer, go for it but always keep in mind that Doc was the one who drawed the big pic and has the whole thing in his head. I guess he's the masterplan, so if you want to help get the job done following his directions, make your suggestions whenever you feel like, and don't get pissed off if he (or anyone) doesn't like some of them. Maybe I would help with dialogues myself but, as you can see, my english sucks so I'd rather stick to pictures -I'm busy with Town Wards Mapping at the moment.

And finally, time to take sides... I'd go for personality; as said, better having one than none. On the other hand, I wouldn't go for a strong personality -that way we wouldn't kill psy-projection completely.

[Mehzerz]

Well, the idea would be to managre morality through dialogue choices.

So we'd aim to keep the tone morally neutral (or at least ambiguous) until such a time as the player decided how he wanted to handle a situation. Then, since we now know how the player wants to play this scene, we can deal somewhat more directly with the moral elements.

I like this idea a lot. Almost a middle ground of sorts... almost. Defined but also open enough to allow people to play their way.

Yeah, with hindsight, I probably could have included a middle ground option.

I disagree, from what I saw of the last poll and others, people would rather have everything over one thing. Besides, your thoughts on the personality thing seem to be a middle ground of sorts anyways. This forum largely doesn't care as long as WM continues to provide and expand as a game. As long as it's fun! It's more so the few loud ones that make things the most difficult.

As for me going; necno's in favour of getting the project into maintenance mode, and at about 60/40 the poll looks like it's going to be too close for me to be comfortable laying down the law. So I'm thinking I'll hang around long enough to get the scripting working and tie up a few loose ends. Realistically, that still leaves me working on WM for a month or three yet.

After that, I'm going to get clonemaster going properly

Although I'd hate to see you go back to clonemaster while this to-do list has expanded so much, I'm actually looking forward to that game as well. I have to say though, WM DID need a creative director and maybe it still does. You've taken the helm quite well, and if it were me I probably wouldn't have been as lenient as you have been. I don't know where the whole "corrupt dictator" thing came from, but that hardly seems to be the case to me. ( I hope I'm not spurring bad blood again. :/)
Anyways,
A 60/40 poll is far enough (in my opinion) to go one way over another. However, perhaps some things could be better left for a Whore Master 2 after all? I must admit WM currently has enough in it to be a pretty well done game. So no arguments as to squashing existing bugs and finishing up already coded content here. Largely once all that has been done the modders and community could expand it much further anyways.

[DocClox]

I still say we should be able to do conjugal visits for girls in jail >.>

You know, that probably wouldn't be so hard to write. Treat the jail as a brothel, albeit with a lot of options disabled. Bribe the turnkey a few gold and you could spend some quality time with your girls.

No good tactical reason for it, but I can see it appealing on other levels

[Lorde]

Random event for a guard captain to come over as a customer and enjoy himself to unlock this option?

[DocClox]

That works for me

+20% bonus for BDSM sex while the girl's in jail