Goodbye piracy, goodbye privacy

[Starry]

Before I call it a day I will mention the ridiculousness of suggesting that people who've done one wrong thing should turn themselves in.  That would be everyone on Earth.
 
But that's enough from me on the topic.  Take care of yourselves.

[DocClox]

Before I call it a day I will mention the ridiculousness of suggesting that people who've done one wrong thing should turn themselves in.  That would be everyone on Earth.

Just those preaching from the moral high ground.  I mean right is right and wrong is wrong, right? If you're honest (unlike us thieves) then it doesn't seem unrasonable to expect you to comply with the law.

This looks like an attempt to harmonize copyright law. 

It's a bit more than that. There's enhanced DMCR provisions; requiring sites to proactively police their content for copyright violations (which would kill YouTube and Flickr and the like); applying all this to trademarks as well; requiring ISPs to cut you off on the simple accusation of infringement (no evidence required)

It really is a very nasty piece of work if the leaked material is anything at all to go by.

[fixet]

No.
I have a problem with it.  That's why I don't have WM.
It's an addictive enough game I'd love to keep it, but I can't.

wait, let me get this straight

you have a problem with the images used being copyrighted, so you do not even have a copy of the game on your pc, because that would be stealing
and you are still here?


also, the entire concept of piracy is too vague to be subject to any serious laws, imo
if I take a music cd from my friend, and rip it on my pc, do I go to jail?
the cd belongs to him, and he gave it to me, and I just copied the contents for my own personal use
what about if I give what I ripped to another friend? am I distributing copyrighted material?

how about if I copy some pages from my book, and give it to a friend? he didn't pay for it
are my kids breaking the law by tracing over a copyrighted drawing or a picture?

what about karaoke? public performance is banned by copyright law


now, draw the parallel between my friend giving me his dvd to watch, and someone buying the dvd and sharing it with over the net
what about streaming? streaming a movie is against the law, yet it is the same as watching it with people
you had to buy the movie, and you do not profit from it

not to mention that 80% of people crying about piracy buy used/rent, "stealing" from whatever industry as much as pirates

[Abtakha]

The only way they can really enforce that is either to completely blow all American privacy out the wazoo - or make it completely international.  I may not agree with what they do, but the pirate bay has some very strong arguments in their defense - and those are the kind of people these laws are meant to stop.

[DocClox]

The only way they can really enforce that is either to completely blow all American privacy out the wazoo - or make it completely international. 

 
I expect they'll compromise, and blow international privacy out the wazoo.

[Abtakha]

There will always be one country (or more) that refuse - and the only way to enforce it on them is war (that I know of) even if all the countries in the world managed to agree (and what are the odds of that) the real pirates will find some safe harbor (middle of the ocean maybe)
not trying to be pessimistic, but I am a huge believer in both human ingenuity and human stupidity.

[TF]

if I take a music cd from my friend, and rip it on my pc, do I go to jail?

That's a bit of a extreme reaction, but to answer the underlying question: Yes, that is illegal, as is your sharing it with more people down the line. Your friend playing the music for you or even allowing you to borrow the CD is fine, but the line is crossed when you make an unlicensed copy for your own use.

what about karaoke? public performance is banned by copyright law

Karaoke versions of songs are licensed from the original artists with the understanding that they will be used in a public forum, all fair and legal.

[fixet]

That's a bit of a extreme reaction, but to answer the underlying question: Yes, that is illegal, as is your sharing it with more people down the line. Your friend playing the music for you or even allowing you to borrow the CD is fine, but the line is crossed when you make an unlicensed copy for your own use.

see, I understand the logic behind that, but where is the legal foundation for such laws?
it's my property, I bought, I am not making a profit from it, and I do not directly affect the rights owners, or their income
see the book example, it's basically the same thing

Karaoke versions of songs are licensed from the original artists with the understanding that they will be used in a public forum, all fair and legal.

my bad
though, now that I think about it, how would acta work? does the copyright owner/holder have to press charges for infringement, or do you automatically answer to the law?

There will always be one country (or more) that refuse - and the only way to enforce it on them is war (that I know of) even if all the countries in the world managed to agree (and what are the odds of that) the real pirates will find some safe harbor (middle of the ocean maybe)

there are lots of ways to pressure countries into submission

and I think the middle of the ocean is subject to international law, just saying

[Abtakha]

Middle of the ocean is - but just ask the coast guard how easy it is to enforce out there.
Those who believe strongly that if they Can get it for free, they Should get it for free, will do what they can to live that way - regardless of what the law or ethics or even common courtesy says.
to maul a popular phrase - Pirates gonna pirate (the real pirates I mean)

[DocClox]

see, I understand the logic behind that, but where is the legal foundation for such laws?
it's my property, I bought, I am not making a profit from it, and I do not directly affect the rights owners, or their income
see the book example, it's basically the same thing

Copyright law. If your friend copies a CD they're making an unauthorised copy. You play it in public, you own performance royalties, and so on.

Personally, I think we're well beyond the point now where copyright has any meaningful benefit to society as a whole, and the sooner the whole shebang is abolished the better. In the meantime though, that's how it works.

[Abtakha]

Yeah, but can you imagine the anarchy if we simply abolished it?

[LordJerle]

Yeah but they're attempting to go overboard with enforcement.  Way overboard.  I mean, you won't be able to open up copyrighted content with freeware anymore.  That includes freeware operating systems like Linux, which means certain doom for companies that host little things like dedicated gaming servers.

[DocClox]

Yeah, but can you imagine the anarchy if we simply abolished it?

You say "anarchy" I tend to think of rioting in the streets, widespread civil disorder, looting and burning, that sort of thing.

So, on that basis, the answer has to be "no".

[Abtakha]

By anarchy I was actually picturing a sudden massive increase in the jobless, and all the very upset people that that would cause, not to mention all the fighting over IP if the current enforcement were to suddenly disappear. - and yeah, like a lot of gun control plans, they are WAY going overboard.

[DocClox]

By anarchy I was actually picturing a sudden massive increase in the jobless

 
Well, that needn't be sudden or massive, so far as I can see. You can say "we'll abolish copyright starting Jan 1, 2012" for instance, and give people and business a chance to prepare for the change.

A few corporations are going to have their profit margins substantially reduced, it is true, but that's preferable to letting turn the internet into a corporate walled garden in an attempt to preserve their market position.

  and all the very upset people that that would cause,

   
That would be the RIAA, MPAA, and so on. Not that they're ever happy in the first place.

    not to mention all the fighting over IP if the current enforcement were to suddenly disappear.

     
If there's no IP, what's to fight over? Everything becomes public domain. There's going to be something of a scramble to see who can produce various records and books the most cheaply, but that should be good for the economy on the whole.

and yeah, like a lot of gun control plans, they are WAY going overboard.

No argument there. Don't get me wrong, I'd be in favour of copyright reform. I just don't believe it'll ever happen. Any "reform" is going to end up bought and paid for by the IP cartels.