turn report redesign

[mika]

Current turn report is a chore to go through - reason is the same as with assigning girl jobs to schedules - too deep nesting.

For comparison, here is the current hierachy, as it appears in the interface:

Code: [Select]

GANG-CATEGORY
    GANGNAME
        GANGEVENT

GIRLS-CATEGORY
    GIRL1NAME
        GIRL1SHIFT1BEGIN
        GIRL1SHIFT1EVENT1
        GIRL1SHIFT1EVENT2
        ...
        GIRL1SHIFT1EVENT-THAT-ACTUALLY-BELONGS-IN-THE-SUMMARY
        GIRL1SHIFT1SUMMARY
        GIRL1SHIFT2BEGIN
        ...
    GIRL2NAME
        GIRL2SHIFT1BEGIN
        ...

BROTHELS
    BROTHEL1NAME
        BROTHEL1EVENT1
        ...
    BROTHEL2NAME
        BROTHEL2EVENT1
        ...

DUNGEON-CATEGORY
    GIRL3NAME
        GIRL3-SUMMARY
        ...

HOUSE-CATEGORY
    GIRL4NAME
        GIRL4-SUMMARY
        ...

Umm.... oookay. Bottom line - this isn't fixable. Just the amount of levels (three) is already too much. The layout doesn't work either - with those three lists being stacked vertically, all across the window, it maximizes vertical mouse movement, which is the most annoying kind.

So, full abortion. Instead, i propose a flatter 2-level layout as follows:

Code: [Select]

+--------------+---------+
|  Level1+2    | summary |
|  combined    | at the  |
|              | top     |
|              |         |
|              | level3  |
|              | events  |
|              |         |
+--------------+---------+

The reason to do it like this is, so that the left pane is all one has to navigate, if one merely wants to read through the summaries (this is because the summary would always be the top item in the right pane, and hence automatically selected initially). The only reason to navigate the right pane is, for all the flavour text of individual events (which technically do not matter for business... its there for immersion/roleplay only).

The exception is warnings and alerts, which would display in the right pane. However, the relevant item in the left list would be colored accordingly (as it is now in recent builds), so that the player can at a glance see, which items demand inspection of the event-details.

Here's what the hierachy of an example turn summary would be like:

Code: [Select]

GANG: GANG1NAME
    GANG1-EVENT1
    GANG1-EVENT2
    ...

GANG: GANG2NAME
    GANG2-EVENT1
    GANG2-EVENT2
    ...

BUSINESS1NAME: REPORT
    BUSINESS1-EVENT1
    BUSINESS1-EVENT2
    ...

BUSINESS1NAME: GIRL1NAME
    GIRL1-SUMMARY-FOR-BOTH-SHIFTS
    GIRL1-SHIFT1-START
    GIRL1-SHIFT1-EVENT1
    GIRL1-SHIFT1-EVENT2
    ...
    GIRL1-SHIFT2-START
    GIRL1-SHIFT2-EVENT1
    GIRL1-SHIFT2-EVENT2

BUSINESS1NAME: GIRL2NAME
    GIRL2-SUMMARY-FOR-BOTH-SHIFTS
    GIRL2-SHIFT1-START
    ...

BUSINESS2NAME: REPORT
    BUSINESS2-EVENT1
    BUSINESS2-EVENT2
    ...

BUSINESS2NAME: GIRL3NAME
    GIRL3-SUMMARY-FOR-BOTH-SHIFTS
    GIRL3-SHIFT1-START
    ...

DUNGEON: GIRL4NAME
    GIRL4-SUMMARY
    ...

HOUSE: REPORT
    HOUSE-EVENT1
    HOUSE-EVENT2
    ...

HOUSE: GIRL5NAME
    GIRL5-SUMMARY-FOR-BOTH-SHIFTS
    GIRL5-SHIFT1-START
    ...

Some explanations about the above:

1. Does it make the list too long? I don't think so - keep in mind that now we have two lists, HORIZONTALLY next to each other, so we have plenty of vertical space per list. Also keep in mind that only the 1st level would appear in the left list, which isn't as much as it looks like in the above hierachy breakdown. The true bloat - the individual events - is shown on the right pane, and it is the same amount of entries as level3 was before - in fact less, thanks to simplified summaries.

2. The summary is always the very first level 2 item, and in case of girls it covers BOTH shifts. This means that one can quickly check through all the summaries, by just navigating the left pane, without having to scroll and click through events.

3. There could be buttons on top of the two panes, to filter the left list: "All", "Gangs", "Business", "Dungeon", "House". This is not the same as the current 3-level system, because it is optional and "All" would be the default. Currently, one is forced to basically inspect one filter at a time. With my approach, the turn report starts with everything visible, and one can then filter if one wishes to.

EDIT: Removed some nonsense about dungeon changes - this was obsolete info from an earlier draft.

[dmotrl]

Current turn report is a chore to go through - reason is the same as with assigning girl jobs to schedules - too deep nesting.

For comparison, here is the current hierachy, as it appears in the interface:

Code: [Select]

GANG-CATEGORY
    GANGNAME
        GANGEVENT

GIRLS-CATEGORY
    GIRL1NAME
        GIRL1SHIFT1BEGIN
        GIRL1SHIFT1EVENT1
        GIRL1SHIFT1EVENT2
        ...
        GIRL1SHIFT1EVENT-THAT-ACTUALLY-BELONGS-IN-THE-SUMMARY
        GIRL1SHIFT1SUMMARY
        GIRL1SHIFT2BEGIN
        ...
    GIRL2NAME
        GIRL2SHIFT1BEGIN
        ...

BROTHELS
    BROTHEL1NAME
        BROTHEL1EVENT1
        ...
    BROTHEL2NAME
        BROTHEL2EVENT1
        ...

DUNGEON-CATEGORY
    GIRL3NAME
        GIRL3-SUMMARY
        ...

HOUSE-CATEGORY
    GIRL4NAME
        GIRL4-SUMMARY
        ...

Umm.... oookay. Bottom line - this isn't fixable. Just the amount of levels (three) is already too much. The layout doesn't work either - with those three lists being stacked vertically, all across the window, it maximizes vertical mouse movement, which is the most annoying kind.

... Huh?  Could you explain what the problem is?  I mean, I know I use the arrow keys instead of using the scrolling feature on my mouse (because I'm smart lazy like that), but what's the issue with the 'levels'?  Because I'm really not sure what you're referring to with that, and your diagrams don't make it clear to me.

[mika]

... Huh?  Could you explain what the problem is?  I mean, I know I use the arrow keys instead of using the scrolling feature on my mouse (because I'm smart lazy like that), but what's the issue with the 'levels'?  Because I'm really not sure what you're referring to with that, and your diagrams don't make it clear to me.

It really should be overly obvious, so let me put it this way: It is three lists stacked on top of each other, each one lacks vertical space and hence requires scrolling... and the first list has just 5 or so entries - an extra listbox for.... FIVE ENTRIES, and EVEN THOSE NEED SCROLLING. What the hell? If that doesn't ring a bell, then i doubt any further explanation will find understanding ears. As i said, it really should be obvious how much of an unneccessarily complex mess the current layout is.

As for what the issue with levels in general is: Every additional level introduces overhead - a lot of overhead. Nesting has a high usability cost, but this high cost (per level) can become a lesser evil, if any other solution would be worse. In other words, nesting is expensive, so it only should be used as much as is neccessary. This really should be obvious... each level requires extra interaction to be managed... navigating an existing list instead requires no extra effort, unless the list simply becomes too long.

Compare it to a real-life equivalent of using folders to categorize things... you should be using enough folders, to ensure each one does not accumulate too many papers, but using a dozen folders, each with just 10 documents, is nuts and introduces pointless buerocracy, since just switching between the folders becomes more effort, than just browsing through a single one.

EDIT: By the way - 3 levels isn't good for keyboard navigation either. With two levels, you can map them directly to the arrow keys, but anything beyond two levels requires extra keys or modifiers, that are less intuitive than... well, it doesnt get more intuitive, than plain arrow keys.

[aevojoey]

3 levels isn't good for keyboard navigation either. With two levels, you can map them directly to the arrow keys, but anything beyond two levels requires extra keys or modifiers, that are less intuitive than... well, it doesnt get more intuitive, than plain arrow keys.

Hotkeys currently in the game
Q/E changes Catagory
A/D changes Girl
W/S changes Event

As I am working on the 16:9 interface I will see how I can arrange the lists and if I can make them better.

[dmotrl]

It really should be overly obvious, so let me put it this way: It is three lists stacked on top of each other, each one lacks vertical space and hence requires scrolling... and the first list has just 5 or so entries - an extra listbox for.... FIVE ENTRIES, and EVEN THOSE NEED SCROLLING. What the hell? If that doesn't ring a bell, then i doubt any further explanation will find understanding ears. As i said, it really should be obvious how much of an unneccessarily complex mess the current layout is.

So your issue is that there are three boxes you need to look at?

[SOMEGUY789]

I think he's referring to the fact that for example if a character leveled up I'd have to click Girls>Character>Level up event. Rather than it showing just the important events and having the less important ones somewhere else. For example if nothing eventful happened I wouldn't see the events screen at all.

[dmotrl]

I think he's referring to the fact that for example if a character leveled up I'd have to click Girls>Character>Level up event. Rather than it showing just the important events and having the less important ones somewhere else. For example if nothing eventful happened I wouldn't see the events screen at all.

So ... he's arguing for axing the Turn Summary screen at the beginning of each turn?  I mean, that's why I asked what he meant by 'Levels,' because what I thought he meant was that 'Level 1' is the 'Girls/Gangs/Dungeon/etc' box, 'Level 2' is the 'Select Specific Girl' box, and 'Level 3' is the actual 'Events' box ... but you seem to have a different idea.  I mean, I haven't leveled any actual arguments against the proposal because I really don't understand what he's indicating should be changed and how.  All I do understand is that he wants to move the boxes from their current vertical alignment on the left side to a horizontal alignment - and I oppose that because it reduces the size of the image that appears (since you're eating up the central space with the new alignment), and the Turn Summary screen is where you're going to see those images most frequently, so making it smaller doesn't make sense.