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Offline GonDra

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Re: PyTFall Dev Thread: Writers needed!
« Reply #105 on: January 21, 2013, 05:47:27 PM »
Hmm... wouldn't it also work if you simply counted the stat higher but if the stat was larger than the max you only give out max?
Should even work if you increased max at a later point.
Not sure how permanent increases to a stat would work in the long run though - you still would need a check to make sure you don't exceed the maximum the variable can hold (if that is applicable in Python).

Edit: (I have only limited knowledge of the codebase and don't know Python ignore my possible ignorance)
« Last Edit: January 21, 2013, 05:52:25 PM by GonDra »

Offline rudistoned

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Re: PyTFall Dev Thread: Writers needed!
« Reply #106 on: January 21, 2013, 06:11:26 PM »
Yes, that would also work GonDra.


I have yet another suggestion: Only store the base value of the attribute and calculate the equipment bonuses on the fly every time the attribute is accessed. This is A LOT slower than the current system, but it is guaranteed that the returned value is correct and there is only one method that contains all the attribute calculation code. For now I'm sure it's not too slow, but it is definitely only a makeshift solution begging replacement.

Offline Xela

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Re: PyTFall Dev Thread: Writers needed!
« Reply #107 on: January 21, 2013, 06:15:36 PM »
Hmm... wouldn't it also work if you simply counted the stat higher but if the stat was larger than the max you only give out max?
Should even work if you increased max at a later point.
Not sure how permanent increases to a stat would work in the long run though - you still would need a check to make sure you don't exceed the maximum the variable can hold (if that is applicable in Python).

Edit: (I have only limited knowledge of the codebase and don't know Python ignore my possible ignorance)

It would work as well... like I've said, I will check how it works in Alkion and try to figure out the best way to handle it. Rudi wrote an option on how to solve it already, but in pure Python so implementation needs to be checked.
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Offline rudistoned

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Re: PyTFall Dev Thread: Writers needed!
« Reply #108 on: January 21, 2013, 06:24:44 PM »
No, what I sent you does not solve this problem, writing that lead me to find this problem ;-)

However, I can definitely solve this problem if we can decide how it should be solved.

Offline Xela

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Re: PyTFall Dev Thread: Writers needed!
« Reply #109 on: January 21, 2013, 06:57:49 PM »
No, what I sent you does not solve this problem, writing that lead me to find this problem ;-)

However, I can definitely solve this problem if we can decide how it should be solved.

 Not today :)

 I've already spent all the time I wanted to code in today chatting but it was still very well spent! I'll finish remodeling parkscreens tonight (something that has to be done to make girlsmeet system work later) and take a look at Alkion's code tomorrow on how items are handled there, we can create a whole new system for sure, especially with you on the team but ditching a ready to go system with import from .xml and ready to use screen language would be a damn waste...

 Also, your code is still a bit above my 'paygrade' and while I do understand most of it, it will take some time getting used to...

Edit:
 Ok, so Eliont's code is also not easy for me to figure out (at least I am used to it) but best I can tell, Alkion has exactly the same problem :)

 I'll ask him tomorrow, it's 2 a.m. again so GN.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2013, 07:19:05 PM by Xela »
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: PyTFall Dev Thread: Writers needed!
« Reply #110 on: January 22, 2013, 05:13:14 AM »
Well, night is already writing some interactions and CW will prolly soon start as well so it not that early...
Excuse me, but I thought we talk about modders, not members of PyTFall dev team itself  ;)

Offline Xela

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Re: PyTFall Dev Thread: Writers needed!
« Reply #111 on: January 22, 2013, 06:09:26 AM »
Excuse me, but I thought we talk about modders, not members of PyTFall dev team itself  ;)

Nope, I believe Dra meant the development team as well as modders. I asked Eliont about the Alkion's items and the way it works now is that items simply are allowed to mod stats above their Max parameters... so basically kind of a 'lazy' approach I suggested where all items are simply capable of raising the max stat, only implemented a bit differently.

I have finished my two major screens on one label experiment cause while that worked flawlessly, creating girlsmeet interactions would be a hell to code in in that setup. Graphically, nothing will change, only the code. I'll finish the transition and then start working on gm interations menu.
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Offline rudistoned

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Re: PyTFall Dev Thread: Writers needed!
« Reply #112 on: January 22, 2013, 03:59:15 PM »
Alright, so I thought about what code I could write for PyTFall. There are lots of possibilities and most of them involve me designing how parts of the game will work. I'm not sure that's a good thing, as somebody else might want to do it differently. Therefore, we either should have a discussion previously or somebody with the authority to do that should decide how that particular feature should be implemented. Let me give you an example: Brothels
Should they provide jobs and stat bonuses to inhabitants like in SlaveMaker?
Should their properties be decided by the rooms they encompass like in Otherworld? Should they even have rooms?
Should they influence available customers, like in sibr1x (I think...)?
Can the player own more than one? Run more than one?
Not everything can be set in stone at this point, but some decisions will be necessary.
How many slaves can the player own? Many slaves means lots of work for the player, so managing each one of them should be simple (think WM here). Few slaves means lots of playertime for every one of them, so managing them can be quite involved (as it is in SlaveMaker).
Many slaves means multiple houses can be useful. Few slaves mean a single house at any given time will be sufficient.

We could add a simple design document into the Dropbox, so each of us can edit it. A .doc file (not .docx!) would be a good choice, as most people will be able to edit it and pictures can be included if artists want to sketch GUI layouts or similar stuff. In this document, we could collect ideas and develop a common vision for this game.

To get started, we could talk about a very interesting question: At this point, what would be the most fun, interesting or sexy new feature/improvement to the game (in your opinion)?

Offline Xela

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Re: PyTFall Dev Thread: Writers needed!
« Reply #113 on: January 22, 2013, 06:05:16 PM »
First thing I would like to ask is that you try to dumb down code to my level. You quickly tend to customize classes and use inheritance where it can be avoided. Even if it might be a better way of programming, it is also more difficult for me to read and understand.

I started the project to have something I can understand and advance, so for as long as it is possible I would like to avoid having a School/Brothel/Bank inherit from one Building class and having to modify class behavior like __getattr__, __repr__, ect.. Even for items you've employed "collections.Counter" inheritance (that I've heard of but never used before), I've seen a good 15 items system so far and non of them had to use any module while working great.

I know this is a nuisance but I would like to avoid having to go through documentation or hurting my head figuring out classes every time I wish to modify the game.

Alright, so I thought about what code I could write for PyTFall. There are lots of possibilities and most of them involve me designing how parts of the game will work. I'm not sure that's a good thing, as somebody else might want to do it differently. Therefore, we either should have a discussion previously or somebody with the authority to do that should decide how that particular feature should be implemented. Let me give you an example: Brothels

Brothels are as good of an example as any :)




Should they provide jobs and stat bonuses to inhabitants like in SlaveMaker?
Should their properties be decided by the rooms they encompass like in Otherworld? Should they even have rooms?

Yes, they should obviously have rooms but WM/Simbrothel type of rooms. After Alkion is ready (new version was released today and it is getting good, much of the coding is ready, now it is mostly about content and re-balancing) I will prolly translate it to English if time allows and we will have a game with a lot of different rooms :) No need for two games...

They also already provide jobs and should provide bonuses during jobs if upgraded in the future. Also I had half a mind to allow more advanced upgrades like in SimBro 1x or Alkion through buying furniture and similar stuff, but that was planned for the advanced version.



Should they influence available customers, like in sibr1x (I think...)?
Can the player own more than one? Run more than one?

Yes, they already determine costumer's caste based on brothel's reputation. More than that? Like fetishes, I didn't plan anything like that but SW raised that issue. He wanted Brothels to attract costumer with certain preferences based on advertising but that wasn't in my original plans. Design was supposed to be simpler than that.

For now, I suggest keeping it simple, release a playable Alpha, then look at the game as a whole and decide what parts are more important and focus on those!

For the second question, please take a look at the game, Player is obviously allowed to own and run more than one brothel.

Not everything can be set in stone at this point, but some decisions will be necessary.

True, take a look at what's already there. On top of this brothels are supposed to have at least strippers after the lounge is bought, if you've read previous posts, you prolly already know that the idea was to have player balance Brothel's reputation (that influences costumer castes) vs ranks of girls working in the brothel. Strippers would rouse up clients that will later buy sex and entertain overflow of costumers getting cash out of them.



How many slaves can the player own? Many slaves means lots of work for the player, so managing each one of them should be simple (think WM here). Few slaves means lots of playertime for every one of them, so managing them can be quite involved (as it is in SlaveMaker).

Also was addressed somewhere. I tested the engine on 4 years old laptop with a logical equivalent of :

For 2 000 000 interactions (around 400 000 girls in game), game crashes on next day.

For 200 000 interactions (around 40 000 girls in game), next day calculations take around 7 - 9 seconds. Saving takes 20 - 25 seconds.

For 20 000 interactions (around 4 000 girls in game), next day calculations take around 1 - 2 seconds. Saving takes 1 - 2 seconds as well.

For 2 000 interactions (a more realistic scenario of 400 girls in game), next day calculations and saving are instantaneous.


So we're in the clear  to have a lot of slaves like in WM. Also, game will be be based around AP (Action Points) and I am planning to make managing/training any one - two unique slave/s VERY entertaining as well as running brothel but that is also planned for a more advanced version.


Many slaves means multiple houses can be useful. Few slaves mean a single house at any given time will be sufficient.

Many houses, many girls, less than half of them slaves if you've read previous posts. Girl's have kind of castes themselves that go from slave to royal and all will have different rights. Implementation will be half/half between the simpler SimBrolike and advanced WMlike versions of the game, how deeply implemented in the simpler version, only the flowing gamedesign will tell.


We could add a simple design document into the Dropbox, so each of us can edit it. A .doc file (not .docx!) would be a good choice, as most people will be able to edit it and pictures can be included if artists want to sketch GUI layouts or similar stuff. In this document, we could collect ideas and develop a common vision for this game.

Please lets not do that... it takes insane amount of time and pouring out brainstorms into such documents quickly corrupts the concept. Both of those I've seen happen in Alkion and a couple different projects. There many problems in projects with more than one programmer, in Alkion, it was mainly difference in skill between Eliont who studied to be one and can code in an impressive amount of languages, has specialization (media streaming) and learned Python just so he could code in RenPy in his spare time and me who just listened to lectures and read a limited amount of Python Documentation so I could try and code some form of WM2. I don't want this to turn into another Alkion :)

My advice is this:

Choose what you want to code, like brothels, ask here what that is supposed to be like in general and then simply write what and how your planning to code in .doc. You don't have to be to specific, just the general plan and how you're planning to implement that.

To get started, we could talk about a very interesting question: At this point, what would be the most fun, interesting or sexy new feature/improvement to the game (in your opinion)?

Jokers? Mission system? Traits?

 I know a good one: Exploration engine   ???

My idea was to finish the girlsmeets, finish the advanced logic for Brothels/Costumers/Girls/Traits. Finish every tool modders may require and release the freaking stable Alpha version, still without Jokers and some other stuff but playable, stable and with some fun content! Then work on adding jokers and other features that are secondary to gameplay to enrich the game, balance it out properly while during that time new and new content is created and then, release a beta, debug - release The Final 1.0 version of SimBrothel PyTFall and then after a short break, start pushing that into a more advanced game with territory control, advanced slave training, advanced Arena maybe even some form of exploration engine.

Long story short, I think the most amazing/sexy thing right now would be to release a working version :)
« Last Edit: January 22, 2013, 06:13:51 PM by Xela »
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Offline Xela

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Re: PyTFall Dev Thread: Writers needed!
« Reply #114 on: January 22, 2013, 07:01:17 PM »
Ideas plz:

This is from SimBro 1x:

Menu:

Chat: Interests, Hang outs, Shopping, Romance
Insult: Dumb, Boring, Ugly, Slut
Give Money: 25, 50, 75, 100
Touch: Hug, Hold Hand, Slap Butt, Grab Breast
Play Game: 5 Questions, Find Something, ?, ? Doesn't work
Compliment: Clever, Smart, Cute, Breast
Joke: Kids, Adult, Sex, Gross
Give Gift: A lineup of items, can be substituted with take shopping or we'll just add items.
Kiss: Hand, Forehead, Cheek, Mouth
Proposition: Friends, Girlfriend, Sex, Hire


All and all, I think we need 'Subdue' (Starts a battle scenario and maybe some events like someone coming to her rescue), 'Date' (Scenario with background switch), maybe some form of 'Special'?

I would like something more original than plainly ripping the whole thing off SimBro 1x. Any ideas?

I am going to get some sleep...
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Offline rudistoned

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Re: PyTFall Dev Thread: Writers needed!
« Reply #115 on: January 22, 2013, 07:14:18 PM »
Quote
First thing I would like to ask is that you try to dumb down code to my level.
Concerning inheritance:
That's a proven concept. Every Python object is an instance of some class and every class has a superclass, except for the "object" class. Understanding inheritance is important for programming in Python (and not only Python).

Concerning special methods (e.g. __repr__):
I do that quite often in my own project, for various reasons. The code I sent you for PyTFall only used __str__, which modifies how a class looks when it is printed. As a result, whatever __str__ does has zero influence on the inner workings of a class and can be safely ignored. I only included that to be able to test the class comfortably.

Quote
I would like to avoid having to go through documentation
You think my badly written code is easier to understand than the official Python docs? If I don't use what Python has to offer, I have to code the same functionality myself, reinventing the wheel. Usually, the fastest and easiest way to solve a problem in Python is to look up the solution in the docs or on stackoverflow. That's also the easiest way to learn the language, IMHO. I do it all the time.

Quote
I started the project to have something I can understand and advance
I can understand that. However, I don't think you are doing yourself, or your project, any favors by wanting to implement everything "by hand". Nevertheless, I will only use standard library objects for future PyTFall code.

Quote
take a look at what's already there. [...] Also was addressed somewhere
You know, I spent 3 hours reading when I quickly scanned through this thread my first time around here and obviously I missed quite a lot. I also played the game a little bit. Despite that, it is really hard for me to tell which of the parts that are already there are only makeshift solutions meant to be replaced and which are established concepts that should be kept and expanded upon.

Quote
Please lets not do that
Alright, as far as I'm concerned, that's entirely your call.

Quote
Choose what you want to code, like brothels, ask here what that is supposed to be like in general
I'm interested in customers. What do you have in mind for them? They have a social class. What else? Do different locations have different frequencies of particular customer types?

Offline Xela

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Re: PyTFall Dev Thread: Writers needed!
« Reply #116 on: January 22, 2013, 08:05:29 PM »

I'm interested in customers. What do you have in mind for them? They have a social class. What else? Do different locations have different frequencies of particular customer types?

Clients:

I've planned the following, some of it is implemented, some not:

- Have social status, status depends on Brothel's reputation, every brothel has a minimum and a maximum reputation, that is being loaded from .xml file along a number of other stats. Maximum reputation is what prevents a lord or a royal from ever coming to some shitty ran down building for example.

- Have traits, like for example Huge Dick, Fat, Violent etc. I've never compiled a list of any traits, the idea was to ask people on forums what they wanted to see and come up with a couple myself. Traits trigger would trigger events in girl's behavior, job performance and so on. Absence of a trait would be a most common trait :) Rest are random chances, maybe once in 5 - 7 costumers, one gets a trait.

- Have an amount of money with them, random int depending on caste.

- Have an amount of money they would be willing to spend, rest is up for grabs by checks during the act itself, tips, girls bartering skill (actual skill or simply intelligence check) and so on.

- Gender

- Act (what they wish to do in brothel)

- Pronoun (he/she) for texts.

Number of stats:

- set of 'Battle Stats' (Like girl/player)
- Charisma
- Libido


Recently, it was suggested that a costumer should also have portrait based on it's caste and maybe traits.


Another thing, while I planned to implement this only for the advanced version, plans can be changed especially since we now have you on board as a programmer, I wanted to create a set of "Returning" costumers, not a large number, lets say 5 - 20 depending on day of the game. They would not be randomly generated every turn but will always be present in a list or a dict and have special events and texts during jobs. Maybe related quests even...

Such a costumer would also need:

- Name
- Picture (for quest, matching the portrait)
- Favorite girl or girls (no idea what's better, 1 or several)
- Favorite Act


Amount of clients will depend on brothel's fame and advertising techniques but since clients will be generated elsewhere, it should not important to the class.

Other stuff? I don't know, I think that is as far as my thoughts took me, if anyone can think of some cool stuff to add here, you're more than welcome.

And it's 3 am now, I REALLY need to get some sleep!

PS: On the code issues, it's all good as long as you agree to explain something I might not understand in detail. I realize that I am not doing myself any favors not using everything Python has to offer but my way works as well ;)
« Last Edit: January 22, 2013, 08:21:59 PM by Xela »
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Offline rudistoned

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Re: PyTFall Dev Thread: Writers needed!
« Reply #117 on: January 23, 2013, 02:47:37 AM »
Of course I am willing to explain my code, but so far, you did not ask any direct questions about it  ;)

EDIT: I added specifications for customer code to my dropbox folder. Please review it  and decide if you want a common base class for characters or not.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2013, 03:21:25 AM by rudistoned »

Offline Xela

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Re: PyTFall Dev Thread: Writers needed!
« Reply #118 on: January 23, 2013, 04:39:43 AM »
Of course I am willing to explain my code, but so far, you did not ask any direct questions about it  ;)

EDIT: I added specifications for customer code to my dropbox folder. Please review it  and decide if you want a common base class for characters or not.

No common base if it can be helped. I left comments inside the file.


Ideas plz:

This is from SimBro 1x:

Menu:

Chat: Interests, Hang outs, Shopping, Romance
Insult: Dumb, Boring, Ugly, Slut
Give Money: 25, 50, 75, 100
Touch: Hug, Hold Hand, Slap Butt, Grab Breast
Play Game: 5 Questions, Find Something, ?, ? Doesn't work
Compliment: Clever, Smart, Cute, Breast
Joke: Kids, Adult, Sex, Gross
Give Gift: A lineup of items, can be substituted with take shopping or we'll just add items.
Kiss: Hand, Forehead, Cheek, Mouth
Proposition: Friends, Girlfriend, Sex, Hire


All and all, I think we need 'Subdue' (Starts a battle scenario and maybe some events like someone coming to her rescue), 'Date' (Scenario with background switch), maybe some form of 'Special'?

I would like something more original than plainly ripping the whole thing off SimBro 1x. Any ideas?

I am going to get some sleep...

Any ideas from the people who played SimBro 1x and felt that something was missing or should I just copy/paste from it and we'll expand on it later?
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: PyTFall Dev Thread: Writers needed!
« Reply #119 on: January 23, 2013, 06:40:35 AM »
Since you ask about missing parts, you might want to take a look at Popuri's interactions mod. It has some interesting ideas, like nice/not nice dates, punishments and so on.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2013, 06:46:27 AM by DarkTl »