Author Topic: Combining the big mods aka crazy's mod .06 is out now  (Read 1025649 times)

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Offline trex

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Re: Combining the big mods aka crazy's mod
« Reply #525 on: December 06, 2012, 11:01:04 PM »
dpman03:

Yeah, crazy would also like to see some underwear items uploaded. Could you possibly merge the underwear with the default items list so there's backwards compatibility in-case others download it and put into their existing games? It can also act as a new default for future versions (with permissions of course).

Thanks for the information, I'll keep it in mind.


PP:

Sounds like you have your work cut out for you! Good luck, looking forward to a more sophisticated game. On free/slave, would you consider making free girls more difficult to handle? If you reject a request for instance, could you make them more prone to refuse/rebel for x weeks after? I don't mind the long-term payoff, but a long-term trade-off should be that free girls could always just pack up and leave should they wish.


Maybe have a scripted event where they (appear) to judge their treatment & happiness working for you (evaluate) and through dialogues and last minute choices by the player, either stay,leave or negotiate better terms/make a request (house %, accoms, attention from player ect)? Making this more frequent for unhappy free girls, or even just randomly fire every few years could add depth to the 'free girl' dimension of play.

I think slaves should also not refuse except in extremes (severe rebelliousness, near death, warped mind ect).

I especially like the aspect of girls having more behaviors in regards to dissatisfaction. Slaves could use the more secretive ones (snitch, steal gold, drugs (?) whereas free girls, believing in their freedom, can be more vocal.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2012, 11:03:56 PM by trex »

Offline Marquis

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Re: Combining the big mods aka crazy's mod
« Reply #526 on: December 06, 2012, 11:18:17 PM »


[size=78%]I'd suggest traits not be used to raise/lower stats at all. Why give a girl the trait "charismatic" which adds +50 to charisma instead of [/size][size=78%]just giving a higher charisma stat? Fleet of foot adds +50 to agility - why not just give a better Agility stat? Even if it were changed to +5 or +10, it seems redundant. Traits that affect job skills (including sex skills) are fine. Traits used for fetishes are also fine. So a girl can be 'cute' and the trait won't raise her beauty, but she will get more customers looking for a cute girl and better pay from them. Her beauty stat could be set as above average. A clumsy girl won't have lower agility from the trait, but could have a low agility stat. She may have more 'bad outcomes' at many jobs, not just sex skills as currently, but also waitress/bartender even if she has an average agility stat.[/size]

Offline dpman03

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Re: Combining the big mods aka crazy's mod
« Reply #527 on: December 07, 2012, 12:09:36 AM »
Yeah, crazy would also like to see some underwear items uploaded. Could you possibly merge the underwear with the default items list so there's backwards compatibility in-case others download it and put into their existing games? It can also act as a new default for future versions (with permissions of course).

Thanks for the information, I'll keep it in mind.

I also have another file with about 50 more items that I've made over the last year or so.  I spent a number of hours (again, over time) making up the items and writing all the descriptions.  I've been meaning to upload them, but I'm not sure about how I feel about merging them in with the existing items.  It just seems kind of presumptuous for some reason, but I can do it if there's demand.

I may try to start a new thread in the next few days where I can post different versions of the item files.  That way I can provide them as both merged and separate.  I can certainly see that having a single file with everything in it would be a lot simpler for people to deal with.  At the same time, providing groups of items separately lets people pick and choose what they want.  There also isn't really any technical reason to have a single .itemsx file, since the game will parse as many files as you put in the data folder.

Offline crazy

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Re: Combining the big mods aka crazy's mod
« Reply #528 on: December 07, 2012, 12:11:45 AM »
that free girls could always just pack up and leave should they wish.

Maybe have a scripted event where they (appear) to judge their treatment & happiness working for you (evaluate) and through dialogues and last minute choices by the player, either stay,leave or negotiate better terms/make a request (house %, accoms, attention from player ect)? Making this more frequent for unhappy free girls, or even just randomly fire every few years could add depth to the 'free girl' dimension of play.
I always felt free girls should be able to leave if there unhappy then you could have a choice send them to the dungeon to enslave them or let them go free.  A script for each girl might be a bit much but maybe one where the free girls come as a group to do that like once a year...  I mean if you have a 100 free girls there is a good chance of a script each week that might get old.  I like the ideal just don't know about having it work for each girl is all.

Offline dpman03

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Re: Combining the big mods aka crazy's mod
« Reply #529 on: December 07, 2012, 12:39:23 AM »
Sorry for the double post, but this:

I'd suggest traits not be used to raise/lower stats at all. Why give a girl the trait "charismatic" which adds +50 to charisma instead of just giving a higher charisma stat? Fleet of foot adds +50 to agility - why not just give a better Agility stat?

I've thought the same thing myself, and I feel like it highlights how traits could be reworked into something more useful and streamlined.  As I mentioned in a previous post , it could be interesting to require such traits in order to even reach the highest levels in a stat.  I can think of one implementation that might not be too difficult --

Basically the code for stats can just stay the same, and the girls can still have up to 100.  However, once a specific stat is above a certain level, a corresponding trait would be required to get any further benefit.  The game can already check for traits when jobs are processed.  This means that the job code would just need to reference a function to determine the actual -usable- value of the stats before calculating the job outcome.

...or so I'm guessing.  Like I've said, I only have a vague impression of how most of the game is actually put together.  If nothing else, it might be something you can adapt or run with in some way.

Offline trex

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Re: Combining the big mods aka crazy's mod
« Reply #530 on: December 07, 2012, 12:55:14 AM »
dpman03:

Didn't know the game could read more than one singular items file, forget merging them then, what I said was ill-informed and therefore irrelevant.

Look forward to seeing your items, I've just started tinkering with items, would you suggest anything I should be aware of or anything you've noticed from making items?

Stats and traits. Difficult. The default way I agree is too easy to overpower girls. The only other experience I have with an alternative is WM:Ex, which, I did like the traits and the new traits, the progression and 'time-factors' (young girls growing, job related trait gain ect). Maybe irrelevant to traits, but the forced job structure was the only limiting factor.


Before anything is changed, I'll still make my girls with 40-60 looks overall factoring in whichever traits I use. Will be interesting to see any future changes to traits.

Crazy:


Yeah, it didn't occur to me that every single free girl would need a cookie cutter script for that. Can the game track things? I think  Pinkutako's script has the review performance part, it appears to track some things. Could a girl request you talk to her (a notice in the weekly summary with a distinct color?), firing a generic script if you choose to talk to her (maybe through an interaction option, say "Invite for an audience"?) giving you 'Free girl' action options?

If the game can track some elements of a free girls behavior & actions (discard after each audience to keep information up-to-date?) then it'd allow optional depth. Making the notice appear only for two weeks, and then she gives up with a minor penalty, would give players the option to totally disregard this. Maybe if you'd prefer, you could make the girl track whether she's ignored constantly, and put some sort of trigger for her to leave or have a "Final" notice forcing a player to listen to her, but only rarely?

Just more ideas lol. I'm very happy seeing the game still being worked on, and I'm looking forward seeing whatever's new in the next updates.

Offline PinkPervert

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Re: Combining the big mods aka crazy's mod
« Reply #531 on: December 07, 2012, 08:37:30 AM »
dpman03:

Yeah, crazy would also like to see some underwear items uploaded. Could you possibly merge the underwear with the default items list so there's backwards compatibility in-case others download it and put into their existing games? It can also act as a new default for future versions (with permissions of course).

Thanks for the information, I'll keep it in mind.


PP:

Sounds like you have your work cut out for you! Good luck, looking forward to a more sophisticated game. On free/slave, would you consider making free girls more difficult to handle? If you reject a request for instance, could you make them more prone to refuse/rebel for x weeks after? I don't mind the long-term payoff, but a long-term trade-off should be that free girls could always just pack up and leave should they wish.


Maybe have a scripted event where they (appear) to judge their treatment & happiness working for you (evaluate) and through dialogues and last minute choices by the player, either stay,leave or negotiate better terms/make a request (house %, accoms, attention from player ect)? Making this more frequent for unhappy free girls, or even just randomly fire every few years could add depth to the 'free girl' dimension of play.

I think slaves should also not refuse except in extremes (severe rebelliousness, near death, warped mind ect).

I especially like the aspect of girls having more behaviors in regards to dissatisfaction. Slaves could use the more secretive ones (snitch, steal gold, drugs (?) whereas free girls, believing in their freedom, can be more vocal.

This is pretty much what I am aiming for, I really like some the ideas you have. (Copied straight to my notes).  While I have some general ideas I want to implement, I appreciate any input from you guys to help flesh it out.
--PP

Offline PinkPervert

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Re: Combining the big mods aka crazy's mod
« Reply #532 on: December 07, 2012, 08:38:37 AM »

[size=78%]I'd suggest traits not be used to raise/lower stats at all. Why give a girl the trait "charismatic" which adds +50 to charisma instead of [/size][size=78%]just giving a higher charisma stat? Fleet of foot adds +50 to agility - why not just give a better Agility stat? Even if it were changed to +5 or +10, it seems redundant. Traits that affect job skills (including sex skills) are fine. Traits used for fetishes are also fine. So a girl can be 'cute' and the trait won't raise her beauty, but she will get more customers looking for a cute girl and better pay from them. Her beauty stat could be set as above average. A clumsy girl won't have lower agility from the trait, but could have a low agility stat. She may have more 'bad outcomes' at many jobs, not just sex skills as currently, but also waitress/bartender even if she has an average agility stat.[/size]

I agree with this in general, I also don't really like having traits directly changing the stats.
--PP

Offline PinkPervert

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Re: Combining the big mods aka crazy's mod
« Reply #533 on: December 07, 2012, 08:43:30 AM »
Sorry for the double post, but this:

I've thought the same thing myself, and I feel like it highlights how traits could be reworked into something more useful and streamlined.  As I mentioned in a previous post , it could be interesting to require such traits in order to even reach the highest levels in a stat.  I can think of one implementation that might not be too difficult --

Basically the code for stats can just stay the same, and the girls can still have up to 100.  However, once a specific stat is above a certain level, a corresponding trait would be required to get any further benefit.  The game can already check for traits when jobs are processed.  This means that the job code would just need to reference a function to determine the actual -usable- value of the stats before calculating the job outcome.

...or so I'm guessing.  Like I've said, I only have a vague impression of how most of the game is actually put together.  If nothing else, it might be something you can adapt or run with in some way.

This could be another good method, Have it so stats can be as they are, but traits can take them above the cap... (Normally the caps are 0 and 100).
I will have to think about it some.
--PP

Offline PinkPervert

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Re: Combining the big mods aka crazy's mod
« Reply #534 on: December 07, 2012, 08:46:07 AM »
dpman03:

Didn't know the game could read more than one singular items file, forget merging them then, what I said was ill-informed and therefore irrelevant.

Look forward to seeing your items, I've just started tinkering with items, would you suggest anything I should be aware of or anything you've noticed from making items?

Stats and traits. Difficult. The default way I agree is too easy to overpower girls. The only other experience I have with an alternative is WM:Ex, which, I did like the traits and the new traits, the progression and 'time-factors' (young girls growing, job related trait gain ect). Maybe irrelevant to traits, but the forced job structure was the only limiting factor.


Before anything is changed, I'll still make my girls with 40-60 looks overall factoring in whichever traits I use. Will be interesting to see any future changes to traits.

Crazy:


Yeah, it didn't occur to me that every single free girl would need a cookie cutter script for that. Can the game track things? I think  Pinkutako's script has the review performance part, it appears to track some things. Could a girl request you talk to her (a notice in the weekly summary with a distinct color?), firing a generic script if you choose to talk to her (maybe through an interaction option, say "Invite for an audience"?) giving you 'Free girl' action options?

If the game can track some elements of a free girls behavior & actions (discard after each audience to keep information up-to-date?) then it'd allow optional depth. Making the notice appear only for two weeks, and then she gives up with a minor penalty, would give players the option to totally disregard this. Maybe if you'd prefer, you could make the girl track whether she's ignored constantly, and put some sort of trigger for her to leave or have a "Final" notice forcing a player to listen to her, but only rarely?

Just more ideas lol. I'm very happy seeing the game still being worked on, and I'm looking forward seeing whatever's new in the next updates.

The way I am considering implementing this would not require a separate script for each girl. I think in general it would be doable.
--PP

Offline trex

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Re: Combining the big mods aka crazy's mod
« Reply #535 on: December 07, 2012, 09:28:25 AM »
Thanks for considering my ideas.


I think there were problems discussed in previous versions about going over 100. Not sure any of them are relevant to your version.


However one thing I could see as a potential problem is that balancing the scale to be over 100 would reduce old girls near the lower end of the current scale's performance even further, and if no balancing was done, 100+ would be overkill for outcomes (even more money per job? Not really necessary imo).


Any substantial changes would most likely cause problems that would be headache to fix (tedious rejigging stats for each girlsx ect) for older girl packs though.


I think it'd be a bit odd that traits would only be useful as job performance enhancers, keeping their "always-on" stat bonuses small but useful would be a nice touch. Totally eliminating it, I'm not very favorable on.


Hollowing them out to be text enhancers to appease players who want only the words showing up in a list on the right, with maybe some future implementation of them being factored in job performance (depending on how it's done, possibly to only give more gold?) is definitely a break from the past. A past admittedly too bloated with too many overpowering traits which spawned an army of near perfect women, sort of pokemon with the player acquiring the strongest versions immediately. Sort of lost my point there.


I'm enjoying this discussion, hope we get the balance right, whatever we do we could also consider leaving room for a player to optionally be able to use items to 'cap out' a girl. They can also just leave the girls to grow naturally closer to the cap as time in-game progresses.


How close to a cap each pack maker creates girls to is their prerogative, and hopefully there will be enough diverse options for downloads that players can get what they prefer. I'd like to encourage them to also speak up and request things they'd like or ask for things, respectful discussion is always good.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2012, 09:32:00 AM by trex »

Offline crazy

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Re: Combining the big mods aka crazy's mod
« Reply #536 on: December 07, 2012, 06:04:26 PM »
I think traits just need rebalanced is all not a total overhaul.  I always liked that they gave stats back when I was just making girls for the game.  It's just to many of them give way to much maybe a trait lvling system is in order here instead.  Something like fleet of foot could instead of giving 50 agility which is over kill give 5 at level 1.  Each time it gains a lvl it gives a little boost to the bouns until it caps at like lvl 5 which would maybe give like 12 or 15 agility.  It would still give a boost thought it would be way less then before and the girl would grow over time into something better.

Offline PinkPervert

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Re: Combining the big mods aka crazy's mod
« Reply #537 on: December 07, 2012, 10:27:47 PM »
Or perhaps a stat leveling system... meaning this.. and keep in mind some traits effect more than one stat right now..
Each trait would just list WHICH stats it effects.. not how much.
The first trait that effects a specific stat raises it by quite a bit, the next not so much and so on...
So for the Beauty stat,
consider, big boobs, sexy air, nice arse, great figure... all of these could increase beauty, but how much would depend on how many of those traits she has...
so 1 trait +5 total
2 traits +8 total
3 traits +10 total
4 traits or more just add +1 each to the total...

Or something like that.
Combine this with the traits effecting the flavor text, and having some minor job performance effects, and they may be better rounded. (Although if they effect both the stats, and also directly effect job performance, that is double effect to consider, this is something that goes on in the game now).

Offline trex

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Re: Combining the big mods aka crazy's mod
« Reply #538 on: December 08, 2012, 02:05:22 AM »
Crazy:


I'm not sure at what level traits stop being handed out every 5 levels, but I think the longer you play, a woman would quickly get too powerful over time. Added to that would be a new trait every five levels (and afaik that could be 4 new traits as they stop being added after lvl 20?) adding more stat bonuses that are built upon every level. You'd see women becoming goddesses in any game that went past a certain game time. I liked this idea but I think it too is maybe too generous in building up a woman.


PP:


I guess this addresses some of the issues above, I think as long as maybe traits were spread as much as reason would allow among the stats (eg long legs, instead of beauty, boost agility? Might be stretch that one but you see my point?), you could avoid overcharging a particular stat, and undercharging others, that could possibly also benefit from a slightly raised input into job performance (raise the profile of the other stats when they overlap, eg agility should trump charisma in stripping, solely for introducing a more balanced stat set)

Keeping stat bonuses from traits down to a reasonable minimum, and rewarding the accumulation of traits (you'd need a good amount of traits to see say a 10-20+ bonus in any one stat) would encourage the player to find ways of obtaining them, be it in the clinic (surgery), items, or even just letting women live long enough (basic care & safety) to level enough to gain traits over time. It'd optionally give the player a reason to either improve the quality of their women (smaller, more specialized brothels/bars/whatever the player is aiming for) or go for quantity (the player wants more women in general/likes being a Walmart of whores ect).

Job performance boosting traits should (for balancing purposes) as well be tweaked to give slight bonuses only, and by only listing what stat a trait improves, you can have players 'customizing' a woman for a job, and the issue of doubling up on both should therefore hopefully provide reasonable but not overpowering incomes.


Of course a player can just kit out a woman to easily get a quick boost, or not and just have the traits that naturally flow from time build them up (set & forget). You'd optimally hope players embrace this new complexity, but really they shouldn't be penalized too harshly if they don't want to 'follow this path' from what's been outlined, unless there's a flaw we aren't aware of?
« Last Edit: December 08, 2012, 02:10:48 AM by trex »

Offline crazy

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Re: Combining the big mods aka crazy's mod
« Reply #539 on: December 08, 2012, 04:46:22 AM »
I'm not sure at what level traits stop being handed out every 5 levels, but I think the longer you play, a woman would quickly get too powerful over time. Added to that would be a new trait every five levels (and afaik that could be 4 new traits as they stop being added after lvl 20?) adding more stat bonuses that are built upon every level. You'd see women becoming goddesses in any game that went past a certain game time. I liked this idea but I think it too is maybe too generous in building up a woman.
I would do away with the trait gains on lvls cause I hate that they gain traits with lvls they should only gain traits off of jobs maybe with age but not lvls its just to easy right now all girls will get like 8 great traits after enough lvls cause it never stops.  What I mean is the traits lvl kinda like the girl would lvl up it gives them room to grow as they lvl but should keep them from been to good at early game.