Pink Petal Games
Game Editing And Additions => User Mods => Topic started by: a3535196 on June 11, 2014, 02:51:37 PM
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Because setting a "legal" age limit in a game based on slavery & rape is laughable, and demonstrates severe mental health issues in terms of differentiating between fact and fiction, here's a modified exe you can use instead of the original for WhoreMaster's Crazy mod version 0.5p-1.
The mod sets the age limit to 3 instead of 18. You can still have all girls above 18 (or above 65 for all I care) via modding girlsx and rgirlsx files. In other words the mod doesn't force you to play with 3 year olds, nor does it force you to play with under 18's (or under 16's like the UK, or 15's like Sweden, or 14's like Germany, or 13's like Spain. Because different countries have different laws. Surprise). This mod just gives you the freedom (dirty word I know, sorry) to set your own limits.
Don't like it? Don't use it.
Download:
http://www.uploadmb.com/dw.php?id=1402512036
http://up.ht/SNIyiM
Edit: I'm not updating my file for newer versions. If you're interested in doing so yourself while avoiding all the useless arguments below you can skip directly to the DIY guide (http://www.pinkpetal.org/index.php?topic=3447.msg28256#msg28256).
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Maybe it's just me being crazy(no pun intended truly) but didn't this happen before?
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All of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again. This is the sixth time that we have destroyed Crazy's mod, and we have become exceedingly efficient at it.
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Great! thank you :D
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Because setting a "legal" age limit in a game based on slavery & rape is laughable, and demonstrates severe mental health issues in terms of differentiating between fact and fiction,
I understand your argument, however laws are not always made by reasonable people.
Here in America, the people who will enforce the 18 age limits don't care about adults.
An adult can torture and rape another adult and get out of prison before someone who has pictures of an underage children.
A 16 year old can drive drunk, crash his car into another car killing 4 people and get off with just a warning.
The "severe mental health issues" are not on our side, they are the reason we obey the law.
All of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again. This is the sixth time that we have destroyed Crazy's mod, and we have become exceedingly efficient at it.
So Crazy is Morpheus and I am Neo trying to save the game?
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Here in America, the people who will enforce the 18 age limits don't care about adults.
I think it's more like they don't care about "males" and always demonize them. You can see this in all fields from legal to education to media, but that's a discussion for another day.
An adult can torture and rape another adult and get out of prison before someone who has pictures of an underage children.
We discussed this before on the other thread. I explained that simply stamping a cartoon image of a girl clearly under 9 with 18 won't convince them it's "not child porn" if they're crazy enough to think it's child porn without the 18.
The "severe mental health issues" are not on our side, they are the reason we obey the law.
True, but no government will ever prosecute you for rolling a version without age limits, especially if it has no images. Anyone who then "abuses" your work by adding "child porn" in the character folder or .girlsx files would be solely responsible for their "crimes".
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Actually... they will in the USA. It is the statement OR the images that count. You could post a cartoon image of a grandma and call it three and it's still child pornography. Welcome to America, land of the free!
What's more is that possession of 'child pornography' is more than fines and jail time. You also get the modern equivalent of a scarlet letter. Added to the sex registry list.
That is why crazy's mod has those minimums. To protect the developers from that. Plausable deniability requires it. They actually went a step further and artifically bloated the code with anti-underage stuff though. You can't blame a single contributor of the SVN for this one. They were careful to prevent it!
Good on you a3535196 for taking the potential legal concequences upon yourself.
I was more curious about the max age in the files than the min though. No GILFs? Not that I'm into that, but as long as they are alive, 35+ (or whatever it is) are fair game.
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We discussed this before on the other thread.
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This whole thing was discussed YEARS ago - the express wish of the developer(s) of the original version is not to host or link a version of the game without an reasonable age limit.
You have a poor understanding of the legal system if you think that your argument would work well in any court - especially if it is pretty simple to show that an age limit existed for several years.
This is about being able to plausably deny any involvement with anything of the sort.
We can't stop you from making a version without an age limit but I and most of the community too would appreciate if you didn't jeopardize this forum in the process.
Edit: ah drugas beat me to the deniability argument...
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I was more curious about the max age in the files than the min though. No GILFs? Not that I'm into that, but as long as they are alive, 35+ (or whatever it is) are fair game.
The max age in the game is currently 80.
If their age is above 80 it is set to 80 and if it is above 100 it is set to 100 and then displays as ( ??? )
Elves in particular are rather proud that their age can be well over 1000 so I do need to change it.
It would be easy to increase the max age to 32000, the only problem is many of the girlsx file have 100 as their go to number for unknown age so they would all have to be checked.
Good on you a3535196 for taking the potential legal concequences upon yourself.
That is probably why he uses a number for his name.
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(or under 16's like the UK, or 15's like Sweden, or 14's like Germany, or 13's like Spain. Because different countries have different laws. Surprise).
You misunderstand the difference between legal age of consent and child pornography laws (drawn stuff often falls into this category, insane as it is), those two are different in all countries you've mentioned and are usually 18 (as suggested by Interpol I believe).
They were careful to prevent it!
Do characters actually die or become increasingly less desirable by majority of clients as they are aging? I don't recall even seeing that code in WM so age attribute is used very scarcely. The bottomline is that they'd be better of without it all together...
As for "Plausible deniability", Vanilla version of WM will land you in jail in US if I understood the precedents correctly. Crazies mod is less likely to do so as it is released without images and when paired with characters like Rangikou, Youruichi, Erza and etc. preferably all set to above 18 is absolutely safe...
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If we're talking law, in precedents, words like "original source" had been thrown around. So the perfect example would be Post-Skip version of Hinata from Naruto, a very popular character who's age in the source is 16 while noone in their right mind could tell that from 99% of her pics (that could not be judged underage by parameters set in those laws based on appearance).
So if she's specified 16 in the game and you'd find yourself in UK/Australia/US etc. (in unlikely event that your PC/Laptop finds it's way to the law and they decide to waste their time prosecuting you instead of some actual criminal) that prosecuted people for Drawn stuff before and she's also 16 in the source, chances are that you screwed. If she's specified as 18, it is a hell load less likely to fly and 17 would prolly be somewhere in the grey area...
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Another bottomline is that age can be hardly used in the game logically since it's about a magical universe where a girl can be immortal/don't change with age while bring mortal, drink some potion to stay alive/young/combination of both so actually using that in the game will bring more issues that it would solve... (pics don't really age either btw...) making it a semi-useless field that brings a shitloads of trouble and repeated discussions without realistic added benefit...
Edit:
Edit: ah drugas beat me to the deniability argument...
And you beat me to a couple of mine :)
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I raises the age to 18 and don't release it with any girls to try and cover my ass if anything was to happen and that's how my mod is staying. Thanks for making this its own topic as I have nothing to do with lowering the age and never will
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I raises the age to 18 and don't release it with any girls to try and cover my ass if anything was to happen and that's how my mod is staying. Thanks for making this its own topic as I have nothing to do with lowering the age and never will
And that's the healthiest attitude from developers point of perspective since it's not your task to battle absurdities of laws/violations of constitutional rights.
I myself don't really give a crap either way since in my country of residence the harshest penalty for any actual cp is a fine of 1000 Euro and legal precedents for lolicon are non-existent but majority of people here are interested in a decent game to play and that's what it's all about in the end of a day. Your mod delivers just that and when paired with characters that are defined as adults in the eyes if law anywhere is absolutely safe, I'd just say: Keep at it. and that's that :)
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Actually... they will in the USA. It is the statement OR the images that count. You could post a cartoon image of a grandma and call it three and it's still child pornography
and she's also 16 in the source, chances are that you screwed.
Both of you, please provide proof such as a written law or a legal precedent.
I raises the age to 18 and don't release it with any girls to try and cover my ass if anything was to happen and that's how my mod is staying. Thanks for making this its own topic as I have nothing to do with lowering the age and never will
You don't need to, because I already did. However nobody said anything about "lowering the age", I was suggesting the limit is removed altogether. I've never read of a law criminalizing coding games with no age limits. If somebody uses a girlsx with underage then it's his "fault".
That is probably why he uses a number for his name.
Right. Because everybody here put their first and last names in their nicks.
What a bunch of scared rats. You fear laws which don't even exist. No wonder the government grows more and more tyrannical with such a cowardly attitude. Can any of you cite one law or one case study from where he lives indicating any of that bullshit?
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Both of you, please provide proof such as a written law or a legal precedent.
You don't need to, because I already did. However nobody said anything about "lowering the age", I was suggesting the limit is removed altogether. I've never read of a law criminalizing coding games with no age limits. If somebody uses a girlsx with underage then it's his "fault".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_regarding_child_pornography
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_cartoon_pornography_depicting_minors
I don't know... there so many legal presidents in the world that quoting all of the this making it a spam post. As I've said before, a very specific set of specifications have been laid out by a vast majority of countries like US/UK/Australia that would put Rukia from Bleach in category that ensures you jailtime while putting Matsumoto is the cat that is absolutely safe due to huge freaking breasts and large hip + age from the source.
"In the end of a day" as I've repeatedly stated, if you're prosecuted in one of those counterfeits, you'd be very likely to find yourself making a deal with prosecution instead of having yourself facing a bunch of "law abiding" and "morally superior" Jury that would sentence you for years f jail time if given a chance.. (When shit hits the fan so to speak*)
If you read the wiki posts and links leading to them, you'd come to the same conclusion unless you're from living permanently in a country such as Bulgaria (as I am currently am) k, that has a whole different set of laws that are less likely to end up in jail time...
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Follow these links to their sources and state the reasons that you do not believe their validity, because in the end of the day as I've stated n numerous times by now, you'd be facing a Jury that would conciser that views and the "law" as superior form of "world view" and you'd be screwed entirely and completely...
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_cartoon_pornography_depicting_minors
I repeatedly said nobody will be prosecuted for *coding* a game with no age limits if it has no images. I further insisted that an illegal cartoon depicting a child would still be illegal if you put the number 18 beside it. Why then are you giving me a link proving the criminalization of images when this fact is not disputed? That's called a straw man fallacy. You're dodging my question by answering another which I didn't even ask.
"In the end of a day" as I've repeatedly stated, if you're prosecuted in one of those counterfeits, you'd be very likely to find yourself making a deal with prosecution instead of having yourself facing a bunch of "law abiding" and "morally superior" Jury that would sentence you for years f jail time if given a chance.. (When shit hits the fan so to speak*)
I'm not interested in hypothetical scenarios. You might as well tell me I'll go to jail if I don't eat 3 potatoes at breakfast. Still waiting for your evidence.
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You've missed my main points:
- Age is useless for the game
- Age of legal consent has nothing to do with this game, so your front post is misleading
- Your claims of your mod being safe in a number of countries at those ages is misleading as well
I repeatedly said nobody will be prosecuted for *coding* a game with no age limits if it has no images.
I hate wasting my time spelling shit out for people but you're creating a work of fiction where an age of a person can be (SPECIFIED as a minor!) will be put in an environment when she can be caged, raped, enslaved, forced into sexual abuse and etc. There has been a legal precedent (http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/14/us/child-pornography-writer-gets-10-year-prison-term.html) in the US where very similar stuff lead to some serious jailtime. Granted that he was on probation but he clearly got sentenced for written material.
I further insisted that an illegal cartoon depicting a child would still be illegal if you put the number 18 beside it.
And that in my opinion is the only correct statement you've made so far.
Why then are you giving me a link proving the criminalization of images when this fact is not disputed? That's called a straw man fallacy. You're dodging my question by answering another which I didn't even ask.
I'm not interested in hypothetical scenarios. You might as well tell me I'll go to jail if I don't eat 3 potatoes at breakfast. Still waiting for your evidence.
I am not trying to convince you, my objective is to offer a different perspective to readers/gamers. Links that I've provided offer a number of legal precedents where, very often accused is advised not to go on with the trail and face the Jury (as that would lead to him/her being screwed) but to go into a plea-bargain. Research them further if you like but I am not going to do that for you, like I've said, spelling shit out on the net is wasteful.
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There has been a legal precedent (http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/14/us/child-pornography-writer-gets-10-year-prison-term.html) in the US where very similar stuff lead to some serious jailtime
Another straw man argument where you attack an undisputed claim. I never said the author will get away with coding child pornography. I said, for the (hopefully) last time, that he will get away with writing a game which could be used for child pornography. Think of it as selling a camera, or MS VSE. Both can be used to produce child porn yet have no restrictions to prevent their users from doing so. They're neutral tools by themselves until someone else introduces an illegal element, such as underage images.
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Another straw man argument where you attack an undisputed claim. I never said the author will get away with coding child pornography. I said, for the (hopefully) last time, that he will get away with writing a game which could be used for child pornography. Think of it as selling a camera, or MS VSE. Both can be used to produce child porn yet have no restrictions to prevent their users from doing so. They're neutral tools by themselves until someone else introduces an illegal element, such as underage images.
LoL
It's like having a conversation with a wall that has "straw man argument" written on it and just keeps missing the point :)
- You took the mod and lowered age limit to 3 instead of 18.
- You implied that you did it in order to give gamers freedom of choice (which is nice) but also provided age of consent as delimiters for a number of countries.
* I keep trying to explain that written/drawn stuff can count as pornography (hence the game is of a pornographic nature but is still legal in most places).
* I keep trying to explain that it child pornography laws are in no way based of legal age of consent and while that latter does vary from 13 - 18 in different countries and even states, age that will determine the mod as child pornography will be 18 almost everywhere.
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You need to understand that I do not believe your variation of the mod made it child porn, I am trying to explain how to prevent it becoming cp by users so it can be used safely.
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It's like having a conversation with a wall that has "straw man argument" written on it and just keeps missing the point :)
That's because from my perspective, it's like having a conversation with someone with Alzheimer who keeps ignoring my questions while answering unasked ones.
I keep trying to explain that written/drawn stuff can count as pornography (hence the game is of a pornographic nature but is still legal in most places).
And I keep trying to explain that the burden of breaking the law will not fall on the coder who provided a neutral tool, but on whomever "abuses" that tool by putting illegal images or numbers in it. Think of like selling a knife. The buyer can use it to make salad or to murder someone. Will the seller be responsible for not providing "safeguards" for the knife to prevent murder? (eg. by not making it sharp). That's an insane claim which requires hard evidence.
You need to understand that I do not believe your variation of the mod made it child porn, I am trying to explain how to prevent it becoming cp by users so it can be used safely.
Exactly. We've come full circle to my first post statement:
This mod just gives you the freedom (dirty word I know, sorry) to set your own limits.
Which means that if your own limits, or the limits in your jurisdiction is 18, or 21, or 3, or 87, the mod gives you the liberty to change that in the .girlsx files and have it reflected in the game. If someone chooses to put images or numbers considered illegal where he lives, then in no way will I or anyone else who provides an unrestricted game be held accountable for that person's choices.
I'm blaming the author for forcing all users to implement a safeguard that's only relevant to a very tiny minority living under oppressive regimes. If he wants to be safe, he can still remove the age limit and set his .girlsx ages to whatever he feels comfortable with, while granting others the liberty to do the same for their own game.
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...the only thing I can come up with is a quote of my favorite scientist
"Zwei Dinge sind unendlich, das Universum und die menschliche Dummheit, aber bei dem Universum bin ich mir noch nicht ganz sicher."
In common english
"There are only 2 infinitive things, the universe and human stupidity, but I am not so sure about the universe yet."
And:
"Es ist schwieriger, eine vorgefasste Meinung zu zertrümmern als ein Atom."
"It's harder to smash a preconceived opinion than an atom."
"Der gesunde Menschenverstand ist nur eine Anhäufung von Vorurteilen, die man bis zum 18. Lebensjahr erworben hat."
"The common human sense is only a collection of prejudices, that people gathered till their 18th birthday"
Albert Einstein
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Exactly. We've come full circle to my first post statement: Which means that if your own limits, or the limits in your jurisdiction is 18, or 21, or 3, or 87, the mod gives you the liberty to change that in the .girlsx files and have it reflected in the game. If someone chooses to put images or numbers considered illegal where he lives, then in no way will I or anyone else who provides an unrestricted game be held accountable for that person's choices.
Actually you would be culpable as the only facet of the code you're changing is explicitly to allow for characters to be minors.
I'm blaming the author for forcing all users to implement a safeguard that's only relevant to a very tiny minority living under oppressive regimes. If he wants to be safe, he can still remove the age limit and set his .girlsx ages to whatever he feels comfortable with, while granting others the liberty to do the same for their own game.
The age to star in the Adult Industry is universally 18+ or higher, I can think of maybe one country where 17 is fine for that industry but it's actually the majority. The age of consent actually has fuck all to do with the age limit for appearing in pornographic works, of which categorisation this work is. The age laws you need to be aware of are those for featuring in works of a pornographic nature.
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The age to star in the Adult Industry is universally 18+ or higher
This is utterly false. Even real child porn isn't criminalized (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pornography_laws.2012_09_02_05_30_42.0.svg) in many countries. You're adopting a very "Westro-centric" view. More importantly, among the countries with an 18 age limit for porn the vast majority (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_cartoon_pornography_depicting_minors) doesn't give a rat's ass about cartoon depictions.
Please accept the fact that there are no universal laws for just about anything. And due to the global nature of the internet it's best to give users maximum liberty (another dirty word, sorry) to modify their stuff.
To everybody else, I'm considering updating my mod to version 0.5q if there was enough interest. So far only one person said thanks while everybody else is trying to push their oppressive local laws down my throat.
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So far only one person said thanks while everybody else is trying to push their oppressive local laws down my throat.
You were being a dick about about it. >_> Some flak were to be expected.
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This is utterly false. Even real child porn isn't criminalized (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pornography_laws.2012_09_02_05_30_42.0.svg) in many countries. You're adopting a very "Westro-centric" view. More importantly, among the countries with an 18 age limit for porn the vast majority (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_cartoon_pornography_depicting_minors) doesn't give a rat's ass about cartoon depictions.
Please accept the fact that there are no universal laws for just about anything. And due to the global nature of the internet it's best to give users maximum liberty (another dirty word, sorry) to modify their stuff.
To everybody else, I'm considering updating my mod to version 0.5q if there was enough interest. So far only one person said thanks while everybody else is trying to push their oppressive local laws down my throat.
Notice I said Adult Industry not depiction, the state of things is that the principal countries that ban those kinds of images will quite happily hunt you down regardless of your local laws. At any rate I was mostly pointing out that you were quoting the wrong laws as Age of Consent laws has bugger all to do with the game, laws on the Adult Industry are simply more applicable. That aside I haven't brought my own opinion into this, I have one but I fully intend to stick to discussing the laws than drag my own views into it. Primarily because I'd rather not discuss those and show which of the two camps I fall into.
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This might be wrong as I don't intend to search the internet for the actual laws of every country in this world...but I am rather sure that every country, ...with access to the internet atleast..., actualy prohibit child pornography in every form.
They may not enforce it but theoretically it's a world reknown law (with different penalities and or definition on what child pornography actually is)
Child pornography also CAN BE a written story about it without any actual pictures.
You might be right that law enforcement in the estern region of the world aka china etc are not that far fetched that it seems like there is no actual law about it, but there beeing no law and noone to enforce one are totally different matters.
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a3535196, If you are going to be successful, you need to grow thicker skin. Seriously. Nobody here has actually said anything negative about your mod. We have explained why it is important you understand why it is your mod, because it is a legal gray area, and speaking from my own experience with the US criminal courts, only the rich are safe in the gray or black. Most of us need to remain in a foundation of legal protection so strong that we are beyond reproach.
If I had a few hundred grand laying around, I would have no worries about legal ramifications of such a modification myself. I don't.
That said, here's a precident...Even though it's a little different... (http://www.wired.com/2009/05/manga-porn/)Yes, nobody yet has been convicted for what you have done. Sure, we can call that legal.*
*NOTE THAT IN NO WAY AM I A LEGAL EXPERT, AND THIS SHOULD NOT BE IN ANY WAY UTILIZED TO JUSTIFY A REAL LEGAL OPINION. BY READING THIS YOU HOLD ME HARMLESS FOR ANY POTENTIAL CONSEQUENCES OF MY BAD ADVICE. THE BEST SOLUTION IS TO CONSULT A LAWYER.
Oops, seemed I accidentally missed the point on small print...
Either way, still nobody attacking you. We are just reaffirming you stand alone if someone with a "cause" decides to make this their cause, and that we, collectively, think it's a bad idea vocally and in public, so there can not be any question about OUR stance.So I repeat, you need a little thicker skin.Oh, and the Age max is not found in cGirls.cpp like the rest of the age associated code, but in cGirls.h. It isn't a hard max, but a .girlsx max. The last time I checked the SVN, it was 25. It's triggered when a girl is first loaded I believe.
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please update
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Thanks, been waiting for a mod to address this problem for years. Now I know why it took so long, people actually believing that the govermint spends its time and resources scouring niche pornographic game forums in order to persecute those that dare rub one out to a character from an existing television show with their canonical age in view.
And if they actually do, I think we have bigger things we should be worrying about.
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As if further evidence was needed that fear-mongering on here has changed the friendly and open climate we're supposed to have as gamers, a number of people have independently PM'ed me on how to DIY change age values instead of posting on the forum. Anyway for them here's a simple guide. Feel free to ask any questions so that I may further improve it.
1. Download and install MS VSE 2013 (http://download.microsoft.com/download/D/3/6/D364752C-0A13-4C64-8E39-8CD04AD2C444/VS2013_RTM_WinExp_ENU.iso). It doesn't have to be 2013, I use 2010SP1 but 2013 won't give you any errors that need working through
2. Download the latest Crazy's source code from http://crazys-wm-mod.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/ using TortoiseSVN or any similar program
3. Open the file cGirls.cpp with a text editor like notepad and change most of the age numbers "18" to "16" or "0" or whatever you like. Each number is self explanatory so it's easy to customize the game to your preferences
4. Open MS VSE, browse to the source's folder, open the project's file, and on the drop down at the top select Release instead of Debug. You may also have to Right click on the solution's folder > Properties > Configuration Properties > make sure it says Release > Apply
5. Right click on the project in the solution and click "Build". You will soon have the modified .exe with the new age values. Replace the censored exe by it
6. Now the hard-coded limit is removed, but most girl profiles in the .girlsx and .rgirlsx files are still old. You need to edit those manually. I find the attached ages to reflect the girls' images (you may or may not have them in your pack)
7. Don't submit to fear-mongering and post your modified exe here for everyone to enjoy!
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Its a matter of respect for the original devs and hosts of this site not to put things here that COULD get them in trouble. No fear fear mongering about it if you want kiddy porn make your own blog about it.
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Actually it is entirely fear-mongering. It's like shouting "fire" in a crowded theater when someone just lit their seat on fire. That shit is fire man, best to just get the hell away from it.
Those involved with the actual creation of this have said free and clear that they do not condone or support it. The Original devs have long since disavowed themselves of this entire section for the most part. The hosts of the site have a right to weigh in as well, but so far nobody that counts have said "Get rid of this".
His creation is a Mod, and your or my personal tastes aren't justification to tell him he can't do it.
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Maybe it's because I skipped this debate, but I have a different take on it than some do. The way I see it someone started off pointlessly aggressive and offensive ("demonstrates severe mental health issue"?) then got offended when that offended others so they doubled down instead of backing off. You can find plenty of that without my listing them one by one, "scared rats" and others were plentiful, and all of it seems to be over what amounts to nothing.
I didn't see anyone saying that YOU can't create the mod you want, what I see is more them saying that they won't and responding to the insults about them. As it happens I'm an expert of sorts not on the question here but on the prison system as a whole, mostly as it relates to the drug war. The accusation "You're adopting a very 'Westro-centric' view" was made but I think the problem is more the reverse. Do you have any idea what it's like to live in the, without a doubt, most imprisoned nation in the world? More of our own people behind bars than any other nation in the world, both in raw terms and per capita? To be working on a game like this with the news full of firsts such as the one about the author, just text, or the ones about that game "Rapelay" which has had serious legal questions? The areas the laws cover keep expanding into things that a decade ago everyone knew was safe and if people living in or culturally near to the single most imprisoned nation in the world, both per capita and in raw terms, if those people happen to be a bit nervous I think it's a bit understandable. So they don't have a dozen examples of this particular case, but they DO have a trend of firsts, people who thought they were safe and are now either in trouble or in prison. Reason enough for concern I'd think, certainly in this nation.
Now if you had simply said "my nation is more safe for this type of thing, if yours is too here ya go" I doubt anyone would have argued a great deal. But to suggest that EVERYONE should have your preferred version regardless of their comfort with it, to toss out things like mental health and cowadice accusations, personally I'm surprised they were as polite with you as they were. You were a bit of an asshole I think. That's ok, I'm one too. My only argument tends to be I'm not that kind of an asshole.
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Now if you had simply said "my nation is more safe for this type of thing, if yours is too here ya go" I doubt anyone would have argued a great deal.
He'd probably have not gotten anywhere near the amount of flak he did if he'd just posted the link and said what it was. Like "This sets the minimum age to X. It doesn't change the ages of the girls, only allows them to be younger if you want to set them that low."
You were a bit of an asshole I think.
*Looks at current version of OP* A bit? That's practically begging for people to jump on him; I'd call him a troll, but I think he's too stupid.
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The Original devs have long since disavowed themselves of this entire section for the most part. The hosts of the site have a right to weigh in as well, but so far nobody that counts have said "Get rid of this".
If you haven't noticed the Original devs and even the guy who hosts this are hardly active members of the on going community, it doesn't mean we shouldnt respect there wishes.
You can do what ever you want with the source code for you amusement but when it counter acts the original devs decisions you should be posting on your own site.
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If you haven't noticed the Original devs and even the guy who hosts this are hardly active members of the on going community, it doesn't mean we shouldnt respect there wishes.
You can do what ever you want with the source code for you amusement but when it counter acts the original devs decisions you should be posting on your own site.
so NOW it's not about "legal" problems, it's about respecting wishes of Original devs.
Original devs thought there are "legal problems". if in fact there aren't, then they were wrong. their wishes were based on a wrong idea.
respecting that kind of wish doesn't make any sense to me
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(ODs aren't active anyway)
(Legal Problems vs OD wishes)
Actually, it's about respecting the rights of the site owners and board administrators to control content on this site.
They have that right precisely because of the legal issues.
But if THEY don't say "get rid of this" or exercise their tools to do it themselves, you don't really have a right to do it yourself. The fact they are inactive doesn't matter so much, unless there is a topic specifically stating "Don't do this" already. I don't see any.
However, in the other thread, Crazy mod main, when the OP was asked to take his mod to it's own space, they had a right to do so then. And the OP did. So everyone is currently keeping in what they are allowed to do, until someone who has standing in the issue weighs in otherwise.
Not knocking anyone verbally coming out against this mod or for it, I'm just saying that the rules gotta be followed. Particularly when there is a legal thorny issue that some people may not wish to be part of in the event of a "TOT Crusader" (Think of the children ruminating user actively diarrheating english restrictions.) {You gotta admit, that's a good one. ;) }
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so NOW it's not about "legal" problems, it's about respecting wishes of Original devs.
Original devs thought there are "legal problems". if in fact there aren't, then they were wrong. their wishes were based on a wrong idea.
respecting that kind of wish doesn't make any sense to me
Let's keep this real simple. The original developers haven't said a word here, what anyone speculates they'd think is beside the point unless and untill they do say something for themselves, which they haven't. That's the first point.
Second, as far as I've seen nobody, from developer on down, has said that mods of whatever type can't be developed. Opinions on if they are suitable, would be welcome, and so on sure, but who and where has anyone posted "not allowed, remove it" or anything of the sort? I don't remember seeing it. Again, opinions aren't commands and they don't hurt you.
Sp we're down to third, and as far as I can tell the core of this debate and the only thing that needs debated here. With nobody having actually said they can't, with nobody (let alone anyone with the power to do so) having tried to kick them or their post off the board, we're down to the last issue.
The issue doesn't seem to be that anyone is forcing others to live or act in a way that they don't want to. The main issue seems to be that the OP can't make others act as they want to. If you act or want different you're mentally deficient, a coward, and all kinds of things besides, right?
On edit and just in case others could use a smile as well, you do have to admit that there is real irony in starting a thread, the first statement out of your mouth, with " laughable, and demonstrates severe mental health issues", following it with misplaced and repeated strawman accusations and other things already mentioned, then ending up with in the last post a sad but haunting lament. Let's see if I can get this quote right.... oh yeah here it is. He was concerned that something "has changed the friendly and open climate we're supposed to have as gamers".
It's so sad/bad it's good, in a Monty Python sort of way I guess. It's easier to keep that "friendly and open climate" when we don't start off with attacks and insults you know. When you say it that's just an honest opinion, but when they do it's an insult? Nope. Works the same from both ends and if you set the tone of the thread you can't exactly complain about the tone of the thread, can you? Could have said "oops, I was a bit emotional there, wasn't I?" at any time, still could I'd think. They don't seem the type to hold grudges here as far as I can tell.
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This forum does not have any rules at all, so we have to rely on common sense. There is no rule against spammers, yet we delete their stuff and ban them.
If anything happens, we will blame active moderators :D
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uuuhhhh... common sense... risky. i often feel it´s out of stock on some persons, a lot of times. ;D
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I stopped responding to this thread and his other posts on this topic when it devolved into trolling.
I will end it with this and let the matter go:
We are not telling you "You can not do it." we are telling you "If you choose to do it, we want no part of it."
I say this as a final warning note:
If you are arrested for this, You can not plead anything but guilty.
You have been thoroughly informed as to the possible legality of the age 18 restrictions for this kind of content.
If you plead not guilty, this entire thread can be used as evidence of you being warned that it may be illegal, yet you still continued.
Good luck in your life, and good night.
aevoJoey
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If you are arrested for this, You can not plead anything but guilty.
You have been thoroughly informed as to the possible legality of the age 18 restrictions for this kind of content.
If you plead not guilty, this entire thread can be used as evidence of you being warned that it may be illegal, yet you still continued.
That's as stupid as fear mongering notes can get. Since when did not knowing the law served as a way to get away with crimes?
What me and a couple of sane people here (God forbid) have been arguing is that throughout most of the world there are no laws criminalizing this, which follows that the default setting should be letting users set their own limits according to their jurisdiction or beliefs. What's so difficult to understand here? Are you so narrow minded that you can't imagine people with different social norms and political systems other than yours?
By the way aevoJoey, in my jurisdiction it's illegal to scratch one's ass, so don't you ever dare scratch your ass or face the consequences. You've been warned. This post serves as evidence, so don't play stupid now. It's all laid out clearly there's no way out. I'm repeating it for you so you can't claim you never read it: DON'T SCRATCH YOUR ASS. Now I'm gonna take a screenshot to present in court to prove you knew it's illegal in case you had so much contempt for the law so as to scratch your ass.
(Did that sound stupid? Because that's exactly what your "warning" sounded like)
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Since when did not knowing the law served as a way to get away with crimes?
It never has.
However, "knowing the law and still breaking it" is the point here.
in my jurisdiction it's illegal to scratch one's ass, so don't you ever dare scratch your ass or face the consequences. You've been warned. This post serves as evidence, so don't play stupid now. It's all laid out clearly there's no way out. I'm repeating it for you so you can't claim you never read it: DON'T SCRATCH YOUR ASS. Now I'm gonna take a screenshot to present in court to prove you knew it's illegal in case you had so much contempt for the law so as to scratch your ass.
(Did that sound stupid? Because that's exactly what your "warning" sounded like)
Thank you for that information, if I am ever in a jurisdiction where it is illegal to scratch my ass, I shall endeavor not to do so.
In America and much of the rest of the world, it is legal to scratch one's ass.
Without knowing where it is illegal, I have no knowing if that is the law and thus could still be considered ignorant of that law.
Please give a link to that law and a list for what countries it is illegal to scratch one's ass and I shall consider myself informed of that law.
Where I live, it is illegal to show sexual content of persons under age 18, therefor I will not break that law.
If that is legal where you live, there is no one stopping you from taking the source code and changing it yourself.
If the requirement for me to be able to scratch my ass is that I must set one number to be 18 or higher, scratch away.
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What me and a couple of sane people here (God forbid) have been arguing is that throughout most of the world there are no laws criminalizing this, which follows that the default setting should be letting users set their own limits according to their jurisdiction or beliefs. What's so difficult to understand here? Are you so narrow minded that you can't imagine people with different social norms and political systems other than yours?
Just out of curiosity I'd really like to know WHERE you live...for actually 2 purposes...
1st check if your country really isn't applying any child pornographically law and
2nd (more important) to never plan a family vacation in your country as it seems child abuse is perfectly legal over there
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Just out of curiosity I'd really like to know WHERE you live...for actually 2 purposes...
1st check if your country really isn't applying any child pornographically law and
2nd (more important) to never plan a family vacation in your country as it seems child abuse is perfectly legal over there
You're so naive that it's almost cute. You have NO idea what people in popular tourist destinations in Africa and the Middle East do with girls as young as 10 under completely legal, and from their perspective; morally justified as well, circumstances.
Shows you once again how ignorant people of Jesusland are. In fact, you don't have to look far on the map in North America to find ages of consent as low as 13.
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You're so naive that it's almost cute. You have NO idea what people in popular tourist destinations in Africa and the Middle East do with girls as young as 10 under completely legal, and from their perspective; morally justified as well, circumstances.
Shows you once again how ignorant people of Jesusland are. In fact, you don't have to look far on the map in North America to find ages of consent as low as 13.
Woah...so now it turns into a religous matter?!
But you know in Arabic nations the child abuse law is even stricter want a proof?
A few years ago a 15 y/o boy was arrested and sentenced in turkey for haveing sex with a 13 y/o girl.
Eastern nations? do you mean Thailand by any chance?
That would actually be a proof of a country with strict child abuse law, however the enforcement is rather lacking or is to hard to widely ensure
Also regardeing the 13 y/o claim maybe only an american can testify that...but from my knowledge a person can only get sexually intemate with such a young mate if he/she is a minor him/herself.
If you think those laws aplly to you I need to question if you are actually legal to visit this page.
and btw 13 years is still far from your coded 3 years so you contradict yourself ...again
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Age of consent still has no relevance to the game, the law that does factor in is age law for people and characters starring/depicted in Pornography. Which to my knowledge is 18 in most countries, it goes a little lower than 18 in some countries but unless it's drawn content it rarely goes lower than 16-17. Even then it's a grey area and most countries enforce the porn age law for stuff like this and not the age of consent law, if it was the age of consent law then we'd see a lot younger pornstars.
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I personally do not believe what you do in a video game has any baring on reality. The characters in a video game are fictional, and no numbers are reflective of how the culture at large truely acts against people who those fictional creations are based on.
As such, if a country really didn't care about cartoon child pornography, it doesn't make me automatically think that they endorse child abuse, any more than seeing an anvil dropped on Wile E. Coyote is evidence of support for animal cruelty in a country.
However, look up "hot coffee GTA" and tell me you feel safe in America based on something being not real.
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Personally I'm only voicing an opinion based on the legal side of things, my personal opinion on the matter is something I refuse to voice.
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from my knowledge a person can only get sexually intemate with such a young mate if he/she is a minor him/herself.
I don't know which is worse, your lack of knowledge or lack of common sense.
First, no it's not (http://reason.com/blog/2014/07/09/cops-want-to-give-teen-an-erection-and-p) legal for a minor to engage with a minor in most Western countries, since it's considered statutory rape. Whether this is fully enforced or not is another issue, since you rightfully pointed out that Thailand for instance does not fully enforce its age of consent laws as well.
Now if it were legal for a minor to engage with a minor, then our argument still stands, because the developer should allow the game to be modded for under-18 users, who would then not be breaking the law by playing with underage characters. While if they played with legal-age characters the characters would be statutory raping them (wtf this is getting really weird).
And lest we forget, I'm reminding you again that even real child porn isn't criminalized (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pornography_laws.2012_09_02_05_30_42.0.svg) in many countries, and among those criminalizing it the vast majority (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_cartoon_pornography_depicting_minors) doesn't give a shit about cartoon depictions, much less fictional "numerical" depictions. That enforces our argument that hard-coding an age limit in the .cpp files, not just the easily modifiable .girls files, is an overstretch.
For the love of Feminism, do a 5 minute research before spreading FUD.
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and btw 13 years is still far from your coded 3 years so you contradict yourself ...again
Sorry, what? This was my first post in this thread that you just replied to so I have no idea what you mean by contradicting myself.
And the point still stands, not every country holds the same moral and legal values your precious glass dome Freedomland does. The three years difference is just nitpicking on my argument.
Woah...so now it turns into a religous matter?!But you know in Arabic nations the child abuse law is even stricter want a proof?A few years ago a 15 y/o boy was arrested and sentenced in turkey for haveing sex with a 13 y/o girl.
"You want proof? Here's some useless info with no source I've pulled out completely out of my ass!"
Meanwhile:
http://www.meforum.org/3780/sex-traffic-forced-islamic-marriage (http://www.meforum.org/3780/sex-traffic-forced-islamic-marriage)
http://www.irinnews.org/report/39091/namibia-underage-sex-workers-have-few-other-options-to-survive (http://www.irinnews.org/report/39091/namibia-underage-sex-workers-have-few-other-options-to-survive)
Eastern nations? do you mean Thailand by any chance?
I said MIDDLE EASTERN, you dumb fuck. You're not even trying, are you?
Everyone unfortunate enough to be 'murican and afraid of the FBI knocking down your door: educate yourselves:
(http://i.imgur.com/ukxLllQ.gif?1)
PLEASE NOTE: this map is OUTDATED AS FUCK, it can be a couple of years old, but I've been told that the recent law changes were actually in FAVOUR of legalization rather than the contrary.
And before we jump to ad hominems: I don't really give a single shit what the hardcoded minimal age in WM is. I'm not a fan of loli or anything of the like (the exact opposite is what gets me going, personally), BUT I'm a firm believer of free speech and a "fap and let fap" belief. You don't judge fetishes, and as long as it's not hurting any real people, anyone can jack off to whatever they want to.
EDIT: I gave a lot of shit to the US being what it is, which was unfair of me, because the very image I uploaded also mentions Australia, Canada and Britain that has loli completely banned. Sorry 'muricans, I guess some nations out-freedom you yet.
EDIT 2:
This is a much better read about the issue, and covers many more countries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_cartoon_pornography_depicting_minors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_cartoon_pornography_depicting_minors)
But, basically, the laws are fucked up enough for situations like having sex with a 15 year old being legal, but depicting a fictional, drawn 15-year old being ILLEGAL.
That being said, actual cases of persecution seem to be rare, nobody simply gives that many fucks about victimless crimes... or so I hope.
Nevertheless... the laws are there in many first world countries.