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Author Topic: Unrestricted Crazy's mod [No age limits]  (Read 36547 times)

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Offline Xela

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Re: Unrestricted Crazy's mod [No age limits]
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2014, 05:10:45 AM »
You've missed my main points:

- Age is useless for the game
- Age of legal consent has nothing to do with this game, so your front post is misleading
- Your claims of your mod being safe in a number of countries at those ages is misleading as well

I repeatedly said nobody will be prosecuted for *coding* a game with no age limits if it has no images.

I hate wasting my time spelling shit out for people but you're creating a work of fiction where an age of a person can be (SPECIFIED as a minor!) will be put in an environment when she can be caged, raped, enslaved, forced into sexual abuse and etc. There has been a legal precedent in the US where very similar stuff lead to some serious jailtime. Granted that he was on probation but he clearly got sentenced for written material.

I further insisted that an illegal cartoon depicting a child  would still be illegal if you put the number 18 beside it.

And that in my opinion is the only correct statement you've made so far.

Why then are you giving me a link proving the criminalization of images when this fact is not disputed? That's called a straw man fallacy. You're dodging my question by answering another which I didn't even ask.
I'm not interested in hypothetical scenarios. You might as well tell me I'll go to jail if I don't eat 3 potatoes at breakfast. Still waiting for your evidence.

I am not trying to convince you, my objective is to offer a different perspective to readers/gamers. Links that I've provided offer a number of legal precedents where, very often accused is advised not to go on with the trail and face the Jury (as that would lead to him/her being screwed) but to go into a plea-bargain. Research them further if you like but I am not going to do that for you, like I've said, spelling shit out on the net is wasteful.
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Offline a3535196

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Re: Unrestricted Crazy's mod [No age limits]
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2014, 05:27:53 AM »
There has been a legal precedent in the US where very similar stuff lead to some serious jailtime

Another straw man argument where you attack an undisputed claim. I never said the author will get away with coding child pornography. I said, for the (hopefully) last time, that he will get away with writing a game which could be used for child pornography. Think of it as selling a camera, or MS VSE. Both can be used to produce child porn yet have no restrictions to prevent their users from doing so. They're neutral tools by themselves until someone else introduces an illegal element, such as underage images.

Offline Xela

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Re: Unrestricted Crazy's mod [No age limits]
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2014, 06:10:11 AM »
Another straw man argument where you attack an undisputed claim. I never said the author will get away with coding child pornography. I said, for the (hopefully) last time, that he will get away with writing a game which could be used for child pornography. Think of it as selling a camera, or MS VSE. Both can be used to produce child porn yet have no restrictions to prevent their users from doing so. They're neutral tools by themselves until someone else introduces an illegal element, such as underage images.

LoL

It's like having a conversation with a wall that has "straw man argument" written on it and just keeps missing the point :)

- You took the mod and lowered age limit to 3 instead of 18.
- You implied that you did it in order to give gamers freedom of choice (which is nice) but also provided age of consent as delimiters for a number of countries.

* I keep trying to explain that written/drawn stuff can count as pornography (hence the game is of a pornographic nature but is still legal in most places).
* I keep trying to explain that it child pornography laws are in no way based of legal age of consent and while that latter does vary from 13 - 18 in different countries and even states, age that will determine the mod as child pornography will be 18 almost everywhere.

======================================
You need to understand that I do not believe your variation of the mod made it child porn, I am trying to explain how to prevent it becoming cp by users so it can be used safely.
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Offline a3535196

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Re: Unrestricted Crazy's mod [No age limits]
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2014, 07:35:06 AM »
It's like having a conversation with a wall that has "straw man argument" written on it and just keeps missing the point :)
That's because from my perspective, it's like having a conversation with someone with Alzheimer who keeps ignoring my questions while answering unasked ones.

I keep trying to explain that written/drawn stuff can count as pornography (hence the game is of a pornographic nature but is still legal in most places).
And I keep trying to explain that the burden of breaking the law will not fall on the coder who provided a neutral tool, but on whomever "abuses" that tool by putting illegal images or numbers in it. Think of like selling a knife. The buyer can use it to make salad or to murder someone. Will the seller be responsible for not providing "safeguards" for the knife to prevent murder? (eg. by not making it sharp). That's an insane claim which requires hard evidence.

You need to understand that I do not believe your variation of the mod made it child porn, I am trying to explain how to prevent it becoming cp by users so it can be used safely.
Exactly. We've come full circle to my first post statement:
This mod just gives you the freedom (dirty word I know, sorry) to set your own limits.
Which means that if your own limits, or the limits in your jurisdiction is 18, or 21, or 3, or 87, the mod gives you the liberty to change that in the .girlsx files and have it reflected in the game. If someone chooses to put images or numbers considered illegal where he lives, then in no way will I or anyone else who provides an unrestricted game be held accountable for that person's choices.

I'm blaming the author for forcing all users to implement a safeguard that's only relevant to a very tiny minority living under oppressive regimes. If he wants to be safe, he can still remove the age limit and set his .girlsx ages to whatever he feels comfortable with, while granting others the liberty to do the same for their own game.

Offline Evangelion 01

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Re: Unrestricted Crazy's mod [No age limits]
« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2014, 04:56:28 PM »
...the only thing I can come up with is a quote of my favorite scientist
"Zwei Dinge sind unendlich, das Universum und die menschliche Dummheit, aber bei dem Universum bin ich mir noch nicht ganz sicher."
In common english
"There are only 2 infinitive things, the universe and human stupidity, but I am not so sure about the universe yet."
And:
"Es ist schwieriger, eine vorgefasste Meinung zu zertrümmern als ein Atom."
"It's harder to smash a preconceived opinion than an atom."
 "Der gesunde Menschenverstand ist nur eine Anhäufung von Vorurteilen, die man bis zum 18. Lebensjahr erworben hat."
"The common human sense is only a collection of prejudices, that people gathered till their 18th birthday"
Albert Einstein
« Last Edit: June 13, 2014, 05:13:34 PM by Evangelion 01 »

Offline Sorren

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Re: Unrestricted Crazy's mod [No age limits]
« Reply #20 on: June 13, 2014, 06:39:48 PM »
Exactly. We've come full circle to my first post statement: Which means that if your own limits, or the limits in your jurisdiction is 18, or 21, or 3, or 87, the mod gives you the liberty to change that in the .girlsx files and have it reflected in the game. If someone chooses to put images or numbers considered illegal where he lives, then in no way will I or anyone else who provides an unrestricted game be held accountable for that person's choices.


Actually you would be culpable as the only facet of the code you're changing is explicitly to allow for characters to be minors.

Quote
I'm blaming the author for forcing all users to implement a safeguard that's only relevant to a very tiny minority living under oppressive regimes. If he wants to be safe, he can still remove the age limit and set his .girlsx ages to whatever he feels comfortable with, while granting others the liberty to do the same for their own game.


The age to star in the Adult Industry is universally 18+ or higher, I can think of maybe one country where 17 is fine for that industry but it's actually the majority. The age of consent actually has fuck all to do with the age limit for appearing in pornographic works, of which categorisation this work is. The age laws you need to be aware of are those for featuring in works of a pornographic nature.

Offline a3535196

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Re: Unrestricted Crazy's mod [No age limits]
« Reply #21 on: June 14, 2014, 02:24:33 AM »
The age to star in the Adult Industry is universally 18+ or higher

This is utterly false. Even real child porn isn't criminalized in many countries. You're adopting a very "Westro-centric" view. More importantly, among the countries with an 18 age limit for porn the vast majority doesn't give a rat's ass about cartoon depictions.

Please accept the fact that there are no universal laws for just about anything. And due to the global nature of the internet it's best to give users maximum liberty (another dirty word, sorry) to modify their stuff.

To everybody else, I'm considering updating my mod to version 0.5q if there was enough interest. So far only one person said thanks while everybody else is trying to push their oppressive local laws down my throat.

Offline Lurker

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Re: Unrestricted Crazy's mod [No age limits]
« Reply #22 on: June 14, 2014, 03:33:45 AM »
So far only one person said thanks while everybody else is trying to push their oppressive local laws down my throat.

You were being a dick about about it. >_> Some flak were to be expected.

Offline Sorren

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Re: Unrestricted Crazy's mod [No age limits]
« Reply #23 on: June 14, 2014, 03:52:25 AM »
This is utterly false. Even real child porn isn't criminalized in many countries. You're adopting a very "Westro-centric" view. More importantly, among the countries with an 18 age limit for porn the vast majority doesn't give a rat's ass about cartoon depictions.

Please accept the fact that there are no universal laws for just about anything. And due to the global nature of the internet it's best to give users maximum liberty (another dirty word, sorry) to modify their stuff.

To everybody else, I'm considering updating my mod to version 0.5q if there was enough interest. So far only one person said thanks while everybody else is trying to push their oppressive local laws down my throat.


Notice I said Adult Industry not depiction, the state of things is that the principal countries that ban those kinds of images will quite happily hunt you down regardless of your local laws. At any rate I was mostly pointing out that you were quoting the wrong laws as Age of Consent laws has bugger all to do with the game, laws on the Adult Industry are simply more applicable. That aside I haven't brought my own opinion into this, I have one but I fully intend to stick to discussing the laws than drag my own views into it. Primarily because I'd rather not discuss those and show which of the two camps I fall into.

Offline Evangelion 01

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Re: Unrestricted Crazy's mod [No age limits]
« Reply #24 on: June 14, 2014, 05:51:20 AM »
This might be wrong as I don't intend to search the internet for the actual laws of every country in this world...but I am rather sure that every country, ...with access to the internet atleast..., actualy prohibit child pornography in every form.
They may not enforce it but theoretically it's a world reknown law (with different penalities and or definition on what child pornography actually is)
Child pornography also CAN BE a written story about it without any actual pictures.
You might be right that law enforcement in the estern region of the world aka china etc are not that far fetched that it seems like there is no actual law about it, but there beeing no law and noone to enforce one are totally different matters.

Offline Drugas

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Re: Unrestricted Crazy's mod [No age limits]
« Reply #25 on: June 14, 2014, 09:58:53 PM »
a3535196, If you are going to be successful, you need to grow thicker skin. Seriously. Nobody here has actually said anything negative about your mod. We have explained why it is important you understand why it is your mod, because it is a legal gray area, and speaking from my own experience with the US criminal courts, only the rich are safe in the gray or black. Most of us need to remain in a foundation of legal protection so strong that we are beyond reproach.
If I had a few hundred grand laying around, I would have no worries about legal ramifications of such a modification myself. I don't.
That said, here's a precident...Even though it's a little different...Yes, nobody yet has been convicted for what you have done. Sure, we can call that legal.*

*NOTE THAT IN NO WAY AM I A LEGAL EXPERT, AND THIS SHOULD NOT BE IN ANY WAY UTILIZED TO JUSTIFY A REAL LEGAL OPINION. BY READING THIS YOU HOLD ME HARMLESS FOR ANY POTENTIAL CONSEQUENCES OF MY BAD ADVICE. THE BEST SOLUTION IS TO CONSULT A LAWYER.

Oops, seemed I accidentally missed the point on small print...
Either way, still nobody attacking you. We are just reaffirming you stand alone if someone with a "cause" decides to make this their cause, and that we, collectively, think it's a bad idea vocally and in public, so there can not be any question about OUR stance.So I repeat, you need a little thicker skin.Oh, and the Age max is not found in cGirls.cpp like the rest of the age associated code, but in cGirls.h. It isn't a hard max, but a .girlsx max. The last time I checked the SVN, it was 25. It's triggered when a girl is first loaded I believe.

Offline Kestin

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Re: Unrestricted Crazy's mod [No age limits]
« Reply #26 on: June 25, 2014, 04:10:09 AM »
please update

Offline Hentai_Heitai

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Re: Unrestricted Crazy's mod [No age limits]
« Reply #27 on: June 28, 2014, 12:40:12 AM »
Thanks, been waiting for a mod to address this problem for years. Now I know why it took so long, people actually believing that the govermint spends its time and resources scouring niche pornographic game forums in order to persecute those that dare rub one out to a character from an existing television show with their canonical age in view.


And if they actually do, I think we have bigger things we should be worrying about.

Offline a3535196

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DIY remove-age-limits
« Reply #28 on: July 03, 2014, 09:15:41 AM »
As if further evidence was needed that fear-mongering on here has changed the friendly and open climate we're supposed to have as gamers, a number of people have independently PM'ed me on how to DIY change age values instead of posting on the forum. Anyway for them here's a simple guide. Feel free to ask any questions so that I may further improve it.

1. Download and install MS VSE 2013. It doesn't have to be 2013, I use 2010SP1 but 2013 won't give you any errors that need working through

2. Download the latest Crazy's source code from http://crazys-wm-mod.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/ using TortoiseSVN or any similar program

3. Open the file cGirls.cpp with a text editor like notepad and change most of the age numbers "18" to "16" or "0" or whatever you like. Each number is self explanatory so it's easy to customize the game to your preferences

4. Open MS VSE, browse to the source's folder, open the project's file, and on the drop down at the top select Release instead of Debug. You may also have to Right click on the solution's folder > Properties > Configuration Properties > make sure it says Release > Apply

5. Right click on the project in the solution and click "Build". You will soon have the modified .exe with the new age values. Replace the censored exe by it

6. Now the hard-coded limit is removed, but most girl profiles in the .girlsx and .rgirlsx files are still old. You need to edit those manually. I find the attached ages to reflect the girls' images (you may or may not have them in your pack)

7. Don't submit to fear-mongering and post your modified exe here for everyone to enjoy!
« Last Edit: July 03, 2014, 11:20:21 PM by a3535196 »

Offline escout

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Re: Unrestricted Crazy's mod [No age limits]
« Reply #29 on: July 03, 2014, 11:03:41 PM »
Its a matter of respect for the original devs and hosts of this site not to put things here that COULD get them in trouble. No fear fear mongering about it if you want kiddy porn make your own blog about it.