Author Topic: Stats Concept  (Read 52848 times)

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Offline DarkTl

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Re: Stats Concept
« Reply #60 on: November 27, 2014, 05:57:46 AM »
And if you want it that detailed, you'd need a lot more skills, not just for gender differenciation.
Fair enough.

I don't know about group though. I guess it could require some practice, but then again, we don't have a skill for singing and dancing at the same time if we already have singing and dancing skills.

Offline livingforever

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Re: Stats Concept
« Reply #61 on: November 27, 2014, 10:39:11 AM »
submit or exsersize restraint, simulate pleasure or pain or inflict just the right amounts of them depending on being on the receiving or dominating 'end'?
Valid.
Seems to me like a combination of dominating and acting, but unifying the two seems fine (unless they're needed somewhere else).

I don't know about group though. I guess it could require some practice, but then again, we don't have a skill for singing and dancing at the same time if we already have singing and dancing skills.
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Seriously though, I think it's the same thing here, a combination of a sex skill and multitasking. Does it need to be an own skill? I don't know.
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Offline Xela

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Re: Stats Concept
« Reply #62 on: November 27, 2014, 01:00:25 PM »
Seriously though, I think it's the same thing here

Yeap, it is.

a combination of a sex skill and multitasking. Does it need to be an own skill? I don't know.

And it's also (interesting enough) a matter of tagging concept (that CW and Dark are mainly responsible for) that doesn't really require a new tagger to be written and discussed :)
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Some things should be noted here:

1) Both I and Thewlis are writing code that can be expended almost effortlessly to include more options or more complex logic (which is good).

2) We can expand any of the modules in the game to almost obscene and unnecessary amount of complexity (in all cases in PyTFall a mistake).

- I think it (group) should be a skill in it's own right. If we make it a skill (and possibly) in it's final form to be a combination of group skill + individual sex skills (or even none sex skills) + traits + stats is a matter of deciding how we're planning to tag the group images. Same counts for bdsm. I'd prefer a simpler, faster tagging (consequentially also coding/development) at least for the foreseeable future, we can expand the tagging process or even create different tagging versions in distant future... In my opinion, we have some much planned (alchemy, crafting, ST, Exploration, more complex BE, events, quests, gangs, quarters and etc.) that enabling complex tagging for groups and bdsm is not a good idea at the moment.

So (IMHO):

BDSM Pics: Girls is tagged as being on the bondage/submissive end.
Group: Girl is being taken by a specified amount of males/females, regardless of how (position/way is not specified).
Group/BDSM is a combination of both.

If we ever get the chance or man power to do more that this, I'll support it but (and usually nothing before "but" is worth reading/hearing) how/why this is in greater demand that better ST options or a more comprehensive BE or a pseudo 3D dungeon/RPG exploration or an awesome 3D brothel building module or some really decent quests (I DO actually have a lot of ideas, based on literature, not some crap) or better Arena with quests/tasks... I can't tell. And all of these things are well within our grasp, both in code and concept (inclusion within the game/concept/code) unless we do something stupid like decide to make the most complicated and unnecessary stats system ever or a tagging system describing every angle one could look at an image :D *It's all about finding a perfect balance in the end...
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Offline Xela

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Re: Stats Concept
« Reply #63 on: November 27, 2014, 03:50:25 PM »
It's just that with no maximums at all, it's hard to tell what those skill numbers actually mean in reality, etc. at what value is the girl should be considered strong (intelligent, a good cocksucker...) in relation to the game world (is it at 50, 100, 500?).

**I don't think I've answered this clear enough.

Without mods by traits/stats (which will prolly simply reinforce base skill value and push them lower if relevant stats aren't "on the level" or there are counter traits and only work in good favor in case of good corresponding traits *Should be noted that I currently have no idea on how to achieve that, it's just a though that should be doable with a bit of work), we have (for a 10 year max gameplay):

1 points of skills (often spread over multiple skills) per AP. No mod/trait or anything at all should be able to push it over 1.5 per AP.

So: If we decide that an insanely long gameplay should be 3650 days (10 years), great skill should be:

3650 * 4/5 = 2960 (get rid of rest/vacation/event days)
2920 * 5 = 14600 (lets say that a character can spend on average 5 AP per day)
14600 / 3 = 4867 Training sessions
+
9733 Practice (Action) sessions

Under the best possible gameplay. This should be counted close to godlike skill... however the game play to achieve this at any skill is too long. There is also a matter of events/content which should be exhausted long before that.

Basically, this can be narrowed down and is not a complete guesswork, we just need to figure out how many ingame days we expect an average gameplay to be...
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: Stats Concept
« Reply #64 on: November 28, 2014, 03:08:33 AM »
Ok, then we need a tagging software before I begin retagging. Problem solved  :)

Tags for bdsm... Apart form bondage/submissive end, we could use one tag for pics with tied/bound/helpless in any other way characters (sometimes they are not) and one tag for bringing pain (apart from just tying and/or having sex).

Offline Xela

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Re: Stats Concept
« Reply #65 on: November 28, 2014, 03:50:01 PM »
Tags for bdsm... Apart form bondage/submissive end, we could use one tag for pics with tied/bound/helpless in any other way characters (sometimes they are not) and one tag for bringing pain (apart from just tying and/or having sex).

There is also a question of how we wish to use bdsm pics in ST... tag them with specific actions or not.
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: Stats Concept
« Reply #66 on: November 29, 2014, 02:36:24 AM »
I don't think so. As a packs maker, I can tell that BDSM is the most varied and inconstant category. It includes many different actions, yet you never can tell which actions exactly will be available.
At best we could hope to describe bdsm pics in general.
Like:
- just tied;
- not tied or something, but clearly submissive;
- torturing (= bringing pain);
- (optional) forced orgasm;
- rape.

Offline Xela

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Re: Stats Concept
« Reply #67 on: November 30, 2014, 06:55:39 AM »
I don't think so. As a packs maker, I can tell that BDSM is the most varied and inconstant category. It includes many different actions, yet you never can tell which actions exactly will be available.
At best we could hope to describe bdsm pics in general.
Like:
- just tied;
- not tied or something, but clearly submissive;
- torturing (= bringing pain);
- (optional) forced orgasm;
- rape.

You need to convert this to tags (tagnames/system). Are there too few pics which a whip or something like that? Can you take a look at Valet, (and especially) SM3 and OW? What tags do they use there?

Looks like Thewlis is busy as well. I did a bit of coding, making sure Blue can train captured girls (+Other options for captured girls and different calculations for the SE girls), it's 60% done I think. I want a "darker" option as well, but that will make more sense when we'll have some form of alignment stat for MC (this option will involve Stan).
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: Stats Concept
« Reply #68 on: November 30, 2014, 08:56:10 AM »
You can say that JoNT doesn't have unique girls. Almost all are random ones.
I'll take a look at SM and Otherworld.

So far I can guarantee that every pack has at least a picture with tied character. Whip pictures are common too, but not everyone has them.
I guess we could try faceless pictures...

Offline Xela

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Re: Stats Concept
« Reply #69 on: November 30, 2014, 09:13:15 AM »
You can say that JoNT doesn't have unique girls. Almost all are random ones.
I'll take a look at SM and Otherworld.

So far I can guarantee that every pack has at least a picture with tied character. Whip pictures are common too, but not everyone has them.
I guess we could try faceless pictures...

Maybe a clearly angry/scared or/and tied up picture. We can simulate the whip with sound and shake effects.
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: Stats Concept
« Reply #70 on: December 01, 2014, 01:41:27 AM »
SM3 doesn't specialize on actual training, since you kinda persuade girls to be good slaves there. They basically have 1 picture per category, and characters that cannot afford it cannot be "main" slaves. There are a lot of skills, and every one requires a unique picture.
All daytime actions are already covered by our tags. Night action that we don't have is Kiss (pretty much with random character, even though text says it's you).

They have bondage (tied characters), spanking (sometimes with a whip, depending on available pictures).
Also things like Anal Plug and Naked. Plug is quite rare in general, and naked tag we already have.
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Otherworld has rape category, when a girl is uncertain, scared, angry, etc. during sex. Lockdown, when you are supposed to lock her, it's usually bondage without sex. Also general anal toy category, without specifying which one.
It's been awhile since I played it, I'm gonna try and see if it gives me some new ideas.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2014, 03:08:00 AM by DarkTl »

Offline DarkTl

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Re: Stats Concept
« Reply #71 on: December 01, 2014, 12:07:13 PM »
...I guess this is it. We can't rely on other games since we have more categories already. I'm going to create a new tagging system, I have enough ideas already.

As a side note, Otherworld looks so old and clunky. It was ok several years ago, but it hasn't changed since then.

Offline Xela

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Re: Stats Concept
« Reply #72 on: December 02, 2014, 08:15:19 AM »
We can't rely on other games since we have more categories already.

Every time that we did, it didn't pay off so you're right, we shouldn't. I asked you to look into them because we could take a look a what pics in slave training categories are available for a lot of characters.

I'm going to create a new tagging system, I have enough ideas already.

Kewl.

As a side note, Otherworld looks so old and clunky. It was ok several years ago, but it hasn't changed since then.

When the first version of OW came out, I thought it was going to be the best game in the genre but some poor decisions (imo) were made as the game was developed...
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: Stats Concept
« Reply #73 on: December 02, 2014, 12:33:33 PM »
It still has the best assistants in the genre. Of course they require a lot of writing.

Offline Xela

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Re: Stats Concept
« Reply #74 on: December 02, 2014, 01:10:34 PM »
It still has the best assistants in the genre. Of course they require a lot of writing.

Really? I thought those game could have gone without... ratio of development hours vs payback in terms of gameplay is poor.

I loved the world, battles (even simpler than we have but grinding was fun none the less), moving around the town concept and training (felt less linear than SM3). Dolls were sort of fun as well but game could do without, it slowed down character development at the very least.

It's just that insane management interface remake that took like an year to build, more + complex stats + more + complex skill * more + more and even more complex stats/skills... and no new content/modules.
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