Pink Petal Games
Feedback => New Features => Topic started by: exodia91 on June 06, 2010, 08:49:17 PM
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A few major traits I'd like to see in game.
Royal blood: 10% bonus to her income(wouldn't you pay a bit more to fuck a princess?), if she'd make 100 gold from a customer, its boosted to 110. She however requires one level of accomadation higher then a girl of the same level without the trait, and gains 25% less love from gifts (it's only her due after all) Always passes on to children.
Dark Skin: She's either really tan, or has naturally dark skin. Customer Fetish
More if I remember them.
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it would be cool if there was a "entertainer" stat, or trait, which would improve effectiveness of some bar and gambling hall jobs.
a "born leader" trait, which raises rebellion but increases effectiveness as a matron, explorer, or security worker
an "animal lover" for girls who can "speak to animal" or have a special connection to them, thus (if possible) decreasing the loss of beasts, or increasing the amount that girl can bring in. at the very least, would use less energy performing this task
maybe an actress trait, or something for videos when they are put back in.
and maybe a "efficient perfectionist" (for lack of a better term), where most jobs not involving whoring are more effective. but decreases the likelihood, or speed that the girl likes to do the jobs. and/or a negative effect on sex jobs. if that's possible.
it would also be cool to have more traits that could be earned. the actress trait, entertainer, efficient perfectionist, or animal lover could work that way.
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A few I'd add to my game if I could:
Elf: +Beauty/Agility, -Constitution, counts as a fetish.
Famous: +Fame/Charisma/Confidence/Spirit, -Obedience, girl gets increased income.
Royalty: As Exodia said, this one should really be in there as Elegent isn't always appropriate for royal characters. Something like +Fame/Confidence, girl gets increased income.
Pacifist: +Obedience, Combat is fixed at 0.
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I would like to see some traits to balance others. Like we have lolita but nothing for older women. So something like this.
Vixen- An older women who knows how to work her sex appeal
Annoying- Would be the balance for cool person. Girl would get less customers a day.
There is alot more im sure but that's just the two i could think of right now but i think that everyone should understand what i mean.
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This thread is why I was proposing user defined traits a few days ago :)
You know - I'm not entirely sure I see the point of traits that carry a stat boost with them. I mean taking as an example sgb's "Elf" trait: why not just adjust the stats when you design the girl and leave the trait as a fetish marker.
The reason we think of these has having stats modifiers (I think) goes back to the days of early Dungeons and Dragons, back when it was as much a set of minatures rules, as anything. Back then, a DM might find himself needing to roll up 100 elven archers, or orcish axmen. In that case, adding +1 to here and -1 there meant that he got elves and orcs that were consistently strong in some areas and weak in others without having to spend too long thinking about it. But it doesn't make much sense for girls that we design outright without even a points limit
Reason I mention it is that now that the basic Lua scripting is working (yay!) user defined traits are very much on the cards, and this seems like a good time to discuss what purpose traits serve in the game.
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They still need to have stat modifiers to help random girls follow their traits statistically.
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They still need to have stat modifiers to help random girls follow their traits statistically.
Is that something the game needs, though? I mean you still control the stat range for the random girls, and it's not like we're building two armies of girls and they have to balance statistically.
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you make a good point DocClox, with the ability to mod the girls as we wish, we could at least reduce the number of traits that have stat bonuses.
but exodia is right, some times they are needed. like I try to give randoms a chance to have bad traits and good traits. with a basic (I try for) low- medium start for most stats. like you would think it would be quite odd for some one who is dependent to have a high rebellion stat, or some one who is a nymphomaniac to have no libido
depending on how customers are attracted to the girls, some of them could easily be changed from stat modifiers to fetishes (with both neg and positive impacts, like some guys might want a one eyed girl while others would go looking for a different girl. and don't forget about word of mouth, things like twisted would draw in customers, while most might choose not to have that girl.)
and some of the traits that aren't already in-game achievable could easily become so, with say the catacomb jobs bodily injury is inevitable. small scars may not be noticed, but large, ugly, or cool scars wouldn't be, neither being deformed (amputations) be ignorable.
just for example- someone with 100% charisma would definitely be charismatic, and some one with that and 100% beauty would be very elegant.
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From what I can see, there are two camps of people, although they might not realize it. People who think the girl makes the traits, and the people who think the traits make the girl. The first obviously is in favor of the girl being made, then having traits just be descriptive/flags for which customers wanna do her, while the second think that the traits should be the primary component of the girl and heavily effect her stats etc. Neither of these is inherently wrong or bad, but its bringing up some small conflict I think, and I think we should decide which view the game is going to favor, as right now it seems kinda torn between the two and just making everyone slightly unhappy. Or that's what I would be saying if lua weren't going to possibly render this moot. I think everyone would like to know exactly how the lua traits are gonna work doc, like how much control will we have over effects of traits and such? Will users just be able to make them boost the stats, will we be able to make traits customer fetishes, and etc? Has it still not been decided?
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My thoughts on this have mostly been covered here; stat bonuses help shape random girls. I generally set my random girls to have pretty variable stats. While potential ranges differ a bit between random type, it's the traits that really build the character. Since randoms don't have a 'story' behind them, these traits and stats kind of create a background of sorts for the characters. You could roll a girl with the Strong trait who still had low overall Combat, implying that maybe she's a clumsy brute or she was a skilled fighter who received a serious physical injury that impares her ability. Simply setting her Combat stat high instead of having the Strong trait is considerably less interesting.
Also, unique girls pass traits onto their daughters. Which in the case of stat boosts serves to make the daughter more like the mother instead of just a random slave market girl.
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Have to say I fall in line with sgb here on this one, particularly when dealing with the random girls. Having traits give small bonuses to related areas would help improve the "unique" feel to random girls, rather than just have them as flags for customers. It adds a bit a character almost.
there is my two bits.
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[X] Traits have function
[ ] Traits are window dressing
Yes, unique girls can be stat'd any which way, but randoms as they are now are just plain boring.
If randoms were removed entirely, yes, traits may as well just be fetish markers... but then we'd just be playing SlaveMaker 4.
/opinion
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OK, almost everyone thinks that stat bonuses for traits are important. Fair enough.
Let me show you all what I have in mind. I'm sure I posted something like this already, but I can't find it, search as I may). Anyway...
<traits>
<trait name="pretty">
<handler name="onGain">
--
-- lua code that specifies what happens when a girl gains this trait
-- the girl in question is found under wm.girl
--
wm.girl.add_to_stat("beauty", 10)
</handler>
<handler name="onLoss">
--
-- if she loses the trait, she needs to lose the bonus
--
wm.girl.add_to_stat("beauty", -10)
</handler>
</trait>
</traits>
The code inside the "handler" tags is lua. The "onGain" code will get executed when the girl gains the trait, and the "onLoss" one when she loses it. So, just to reassure people, there's no real way to prevent traits from conferring stat bonuses.
The questions I'm mulling over right now are: what other handlers do we need to replicate current trait functionality? And how best to manage the interaction between traits and events
Other handlers: combat ones, certainly. I'm not worried about being able to set combat bonuses (boost the skill for that) but a preCombat handler would allow traits that let a girl avoid a fight entirely - if she could turn invisible or intangible, say. Or teleport. A postCombat handler would be useful for healing damage - or maybe an onDamage event would be better, so the damage taken could be changed.
We'd need a sex handler of some sort I suspect, although I can't think of anything specific that needs it right now. Unless we decide to track STDs through the customer pool in which case this lets us propagate the things.
We could also use trait handlers to duplicate some of the functionaliy of events. I mean a "sadistic" trait could come with a low %chance that the girl loses it during sex and badly hurts a patron. What do we do if there's also a girl-specific event that wants to fire? I'd say the girl's events have to take priority, but giving traits their own events would let us propagate a lot of consistent behaviour across a lot of girls.
And if we can't make random girls less boring with that sort of functionality at our disposal, it's probably time to give up :)
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Traits with events embedded into them sounds like fun. Though with the combat/sex/misc handlers, you might be looking at a major code rewrite, unless you just combine it all into a unified trait handler.
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We should be able to do it more-or-less surgically, I think.
- Check for the existence of a hander before combat starts
- Let the pre-combat handler modify combat parameters.
- Run combat normally
- Run any post combat handlers
- Mark combatants with zero helath as dead
Minimal intervention in existing code. Or that's the plan, anyway :)
There might well be a problem with multiple handler all wanting a say in the proceedings. If two handlers want to do different things, the order of execution may become important.
[edit]
I should probably add that the "unified trait hander" is going to be Lua, and the script/event framework that's I'm finalsing right now. Most of the bits we need for this we have already. The bits we're missing are interface methods to let Lua talk to the game engine. There's a bit of work to do, but not that much compared to what's been done already
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The reason we think of these has having stats modifiers (I think) goes back to the days of early Dungeons and Dragons, back when it was as much a set of minatures rules, as anything. Back then, a DM might find himself needing to roll up 100 elven archers, or orcish axmen. In that case, adding +1 to here and -1 there meant that he got elves and orcs that were consistently strong in some areas and weak in others without having to spend too long thinking about it. But it doesn't make much sense for girls that we design outright without even a points limit
Having a nerd moment here but wasn't it minature war gaming (Basically playing with "army men" but with rule books) then D&D (Condensed version of war gaming rules for small groups of 3-6 people based on Lord of the rings.) Then Warhammer (War gaming rules with a LotR spin) then Battlesystem (Basically Warhammer for D&D)
Nerd moment aside though, I understand what you are saying. Why bother with stats when having a trait could be a potential trigger for firing off a script. That gives way more options.
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regeneration could be a damage modifier it could be something like -2 hp damage or something
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Shouldn't traits do something that the base stats can't; add a fetish tag, or like fearless remove effect of PC fear. Stat modding just seems to get in the way of directly balancing the stats particularly as 100 and 0 are hard caps
Having a nerd moment here but wasn't it minature war gaming (Basically playing with "army men" but with rule books) then D&D (Condensed version of war gaming rules for small groups of 3-6 people based on Lord of the rings.) Then Warhammer (War gaming rules with a LotR spin) then Battlesystem (Basically Warhammer for D&D)
You're thinking of Chainmail as the precursor of D&D.
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You're thinking of Chainmail as the precursor of D&D.
Right right, That was a fantasy rule set for wargaming that acted as a prototype for D&D.
But literally, in the late 60's people used to wright rules for those green army men that they used to sell everywhere. It was like chess in your basement or garage. Chainmail Came from people making and selling lead and pewter minatures so they no longer had to "play with toys". This is how most rpg hobby shops got started in the 70's.
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Miniature rules for lead figurines predates that by quite a long time. The first set of tabletop minatures rules is generally reckoned to have been written by H.G. Wells, better known for The Time Machine and War of the Worlds.
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Shouldn't traits do something that the base stats can't; add a fetish tag, or like fearless remove effect of PC fear. Stat modding just seems to get in the way of directly balancing the stats particularly as 100 and 0 are hard caps
But what about traits the girl gets after they're created? Those SHOULDN'T modify stats? You need to remember traits don't only come in to play in girl creation, they can be added and taken away in-game too, and thus they should modify stats accordingly, a girl would be (arguably but lets not get into this right now) less beautiful if she got horrific scars all over her body, and thus it should lower looks.
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Miniature rules for lead figurines predates that by quite a long time. The first set of tabletop minatures rules is generally reckoned to have been written by H.G. Wells, better known for The Time Machine and War of the Worlds.
Sweet, this I did not know. So want to go look for the H.G.Wells Minature rules now. :D
Apparently, it was a chicken and egg scenario for me. I know people where playing with those army men in the late 60's early 70's hell some even painted them. Was probably just a way to cut costs. Hell I could imagine what a set of pewter|lead minatures must have run you then. When I was into warhammer 40k, Setting up a Tyranid army set me back a good $500-$600 after paint and all..... christ that's an expensive hobby. (made almost all of it back on ebay a year ago though.) XD
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But what about traits the girl gets after they're created? Those SHOULDN'T modify stats?
Not necessarily. If a girl has a "beautiful" trait, that surely implies that she has a beauty beyond simple looks, since another girl with the same stats but lacking the trait would presumably be considered less pleasing to the eye.
You need to remember traits don't only come in to play in girl creation, they can be added and taken away in-game too, and thus they should modify stats accordingly, a girl would be (arguably but lets not get into this right now) less beautiful if she got horrific scars all over her body, and thus it should lower looks.
So do you bundle the penalty to beauty with the trait, or do you make the event that adds the trait also reduce the stat? The second approach is more flexible.
Sweet, this I did not know. So want to go look for the H.G.Wells Minature rules now. :D
Little Wars, apparently: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._G._Wells#Games
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So do you bundle the penalty to beauty with the trait, or do you make the event that adds the trait also reduce the stat? The second approach is more flexible.
Attaching the stat would probably be a better idea in this scenario. In the future, the scripting engine will have the potential to create events for the brothel and it's inhabitants. If the stats are tied to events it will mean the traits lack uniformity and therefore are meaningless.
In this case, it might be better to drop traits that raise or lower stats all together. And instead use them as flags for scripted events. (Instead of tough giving a con or combat bonus it could be used to fire off a script if the girl gets attacked.)
Little Wars, apparently: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._G._Wells#Games (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._G._Wells#Games)
The wording to that link is such that it would appear minature wargaming is a far older hobby than I previously thought. Wells just brought structure to the whole thing. Also, I find the term Floor gaming to be suitably Ludicrous enough to count as funny. :D
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But what about traits the girl gets after they're created? Those SHOULDN'T modify stats? You need to remember traits don't only come in to play in girl creation, they can be added and taken away in-game too, and thus they should modify stats accordingly, a girl would be (arguably but lets not get into this right now) less beautiful if she got horrific scars all over her body, and thus it should lower looks.
Ok, I see your point. However when making girls, I add traits and end up with a character who is way off from the balance point I'm seeking. I suspect if the character editor ever incorporates that info my complaint will become irrelevant.
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Are we back to the getting rid of stat traits all together argument, because we've already had that twice.
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Are we back to the getting rid of stat traits all together argument, because we've already had that twice.
We have. And as I said the last time, there's not going to be any way to remove stat based traits, since the plan is to lua-ify them, and you'll be able to add them back in as on_gain events. The only real question is whether to support stat adjustments directly with a syntax like this:
<trait name = "Beautiful"
beauty = "+10"
/>
Or whether to make folks code them up if they want them:
<trait name = "Beautiful"
on_gain = "wm.girl.beauty = wm.girl.beauty + 10; wm.girl.update()"
on_loss = "wm.girl.beauty = wm.girl.beauty - 10; wm.girl.update()"
/>
I'm tending towards the first option, mainly so that Solo doesn't have to embed lua in his editor.
That said, I still think decoupling stats from traits would be a net gain. It would simplify a lot of code, and (I think) make girl design more intuitive in the long run.
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Sorry for opening up that can of worms. :D
Was bringing over some of my arguments from (can't remember which thread) on the subject. I'm just a major proponent of the idea to Use traits as flags for lua scripting.
I'll keep quiet and see what you come up with doc. Haven't disappointed yet. ;D
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New trait
Born a Slave
Girl was born a slave. While some born into slavery will try to find a way to earn their freedom. Many just look for getting as much for them selves as they can get. Most will only work enough to avoid being noticed one way or another as they are resigned to being slaves.
high Obedience
low rebelliousness
low pcfear
low pclove
low pchate
If it can be done while they will never be really happy they will never be really unhappy either. Items and actions will be only as half as effective in changing obedience, happiness, rebelliousness, pcfear, pclove, and pchate.
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I have a question concerning something I've been curious about for awhile now.
I had this thought about certain traits having an effect with items given to a girl and was wondering if it would be possible.
I actually came up with two trait ideas that led me to that question. One was a vampirism trait for vampire girls. If you were to buy a vial of blood and give it to a normal girl, they'd probably freak out and think you were some sicko, but a vampire girl would obviously see it like a treat, like giving chocolates to normal girls.
The other idea I had when I realized I wanted to add some kind of money sink in to the game, since making huge wads of cash, then having little to spend it on became common for me. The idea was basically an android girl with no traits except for an 'Android' trait that was sort of linked with disc items. She wouldn't learn anything through training or events, but you could buy relatively common, but crazily overpriced computer discs that would give an android girl, and only an android girl various traits and stats so they could be customized in-game for large amounts of money and a bit of persistence.
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could work and you could couple android with cyborg for the girls who are part-machine-part-humanoid
and i have had the same problems with money once i get about fifty girls working and the incorporeal girls into the catacombs they are extremelly cheap there as their health never goes down same with their tiredness