Trait requests.

[Lorde]

The reason we think of these has having stats modifiers (I think) goes back to the days of early Dungeons and Dragons, back when it was as much a set of minatures rules, as anything. Back then, a DM might find himself needing to roll up 100 elven archers, or orcish axmen. In that case, adding +1 to here and -1 there meant that he got elves and orcs that were consistently strong in some areas and weak in others without having to spend too long thinking about it. But it doesn't make much sense for girls that we design outright without even a points limit

Having a nerd moment here but wasn't it minature war gaming (Basically playing with "army men" but with rule books) then D&D (Condensed version of war gaming rules for small groups of 3-6 people based on Lord of the rings.) Then Warhammer (War gaming rules with a LotR spin) then Battlesystem (Basically Warhammer for D&D)

Nerd moment aside though, I understand what you are saying. Why bother with stats when having a trait could be a potential trigger for firing off a script. That gives way more options.

[megamanx]

regeneration could be a damage modifier it could be something like -2 hp damage or something

[Bluebeholder]

Shouldn't traits do something that the base stats can't; add a fetish tag, or like fearless remove effect of PC fear.  Stat modding just seems to get in the way of directly balancing the stats particularly as 100 and 0 are hard caps

Having a nerd moment here but wasn't it minature war gaming (Basically playing with "army men" but with rule books) then D&D (Condensed version of war gaming rules for small groups of 3-6 people based on Lord of the rings.) Then Warhammer (War gaming rules with a LotR spin) then Battlesystem (Basically Warhammer for D&D)

You're thinking of Chainmail as the precursor of D&D.

[Lorde]

You're thinking of Chainmail as the precursor of D&D.

Right right, That was a fantasy rule set for wargaming that acted as a prototype for D&D.

But literally, in the late 60's people used to wright rules for those green army men that they used to sell everywhere. It was like chess in your basement or garage. Chainmail Came from people making and selling lead and pewter minatures so they no longer had to "play with toys". This is how most rpg hobby shops got started in the 70's.

[DocClox]

Miniature rules for lead figurines predates that by quite a long time. The first set of tabletop minatures rules is generally reckoned to have been written by H.G. Wells, better known for The Time Machine and War of the Worlds.

[exodia91]

Shouldn't traits do something that the base stats can't; add a fetish tag, or like fearless remove effect of PC fear.  Stat modding just seems to get in the way of directly balancing the stats particularly as 100 and 0 are hard caps

But what about traits the girl gets after they're created? Those SHOULDN'T modify stats? You need to remember traits don't only come in to play in girl creation, they can be added and taken away in-game too, and thus they should modify stats accordingly, a girl would be (arguably but lets not get into this right now) less beautiful if she got horrific scars all over her body, and thus it should lower looks.

[Lorde]

Miniature rules for lead figurines predates that by quite a long time. The first set of tabletop minatures rules is generally reckoned to have been written by H.G. Wells, better known for The Time Machine and War of the Worlds.

Sweet, this I did not know. So want to go look for the H.G.Wells Minature rules now. 

Apparently, it was a chicken and egg scenario for me. I know people where playing with those army men in the late 60's early 70's hell some even painted them. Was probably just a way to cut costs. Hell I could imagine what a set of pewter|lead minatures must have run you then. When I was into warhammer 40k, Setting up a Tyranid army set me back a good $500-$600 after paint and all..... christ that's an expensive hobby. (made almost all of it back on ebay a year ago though.) XD
 

[DocClox]

But what about traits the girl gets after they're created? Those SHOULDN'T modify stats?

Not necessarily. If a girl has a "beautiful" trait, that surely implies that she has a beauty beyond simple looks, since another girl with the same stats but lacking the trait would presumably be considered less pleasing to the eye.

  You need to remember traits don't only come in to play in girl creation, they can be added and taken away in-game too, and thus they should modify stats accordingly, a girl would be (arguably but lets not get into this right now) less beautiful if she got horrific scars all over her body, and thus it should lower looks.

So do you bundle the penalty to beauty with the trait, or do you make the event that adds the trait also reduce the stat? The second approach is more flexible.

Sweet, this I did not know. So want to go look for the H.G.Wells Minature rules now. 

Little Wars, apparently: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._G._Wells#Games

[Lorde]

So do you bundle the penalty to beauty with the trait, or do you make the event that adds the trait also reduce the stat? The second approach is more flexible.

Attaching the stat would probably be a better idea in this scenario. In the future, the scripting engine will have the potential to create events for the brothel and it's inhabitants. If the stats are tied to events it will mean the traits lack uniformity and therefore are meaningless.

In this case, it might be better to drop traits that raise or lower stats all together. And instead use them as flags for scripted events. (Instead of tough giving a con or combat bonus it could be used to fire off a script if the girl gets attacked.)

Little Wars, apparently: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._G._Wells#Games

The wording to that link is such that it would appear minature wargaming is a far older hobby than I previously thought. Wells just brought structure to the whole thing. Also, I find the term Floor gaming to be suitably Ludicrous enough to count as funny. 

[Bluebeholder]

But what about traits the girl gets after they're created? Those SHOULDN'T modify stats? You need to remember traits don't only come in to play in girl creation, they can be added and taken away in-game too, and thus they should modify stats accordingly, a girl would be (arguably but lets not get into this right now) less beautiful if she got horrific scars all over her body, and thus it should lower looks.

Ok, I see your point. However when making girls, I add traits and end up with a character who is way off from the balance point I'm seeking.  I suspect if the character editor ever incorporates that info my complaint will become irrelevant.

[exodia91]

Are we back to the getting rid of stat traits all together argument, because we've already had that twice.

[DocClox]

Are we back to the getting rid of stat traits all together argument, because we've already had that twice.

We have. And as I said the last time, there's not going to be any way to remove stat based traits, since the plan is to lua-ify them, and you'll be able to add them back in as on_gain events. The only real question is whether to support stat adjustments directly with a syntax like this:

Code: [Select]

<trait   name = "Beautiful"
            beauty = "+10"
 />
 
Or whether to make folks code them up if they want them:

Code: [Select]

   <trait   name = "Beautiful"
            on_gain = "wm.girl.beauty = wm.girl.beauty + 10;   wm.girl.update()"
             on_loss = "wm.girl.beauty = wm.girl.beauty - 10;   wm.girl.update()"
  />
     
I'm tending towards the first option, mainly so that Solo doesn't have to embed lua in his editor.

That said, I still think decoupling stats from traits would be a net gain. It would simplify a lot of code, and (I think) make girl design more intuitive in the long run.

[Lorde]

Sorry for opening up that can of worms. 

Was bringing over some of my arguments from (can't remember which thread) on the subject. I'm just a major proponent of the idea to Use traits as flags for lua scripting.

I'll keep quiet and see what you come up with doc. Haven't disappointed yet. 

[pnakasone]

  New trait   
  Born a Slave
  Girl was born a slave. While some born into slavery will try to find  a way to earn their freedom. Many just look for getting as much for  them selves as they can get. Most will only work enough to avoid  being noticed one way or another as they are resigned to being  slaves.   
high  Obedience   
low  rebelliousness   
  low pcfear
  low pclove
  low pchate
 
 
  If it can be done while they will never be really happy they will  never be really unhappy either. Items and actions will be only as  half as effective in changing obedience, happiness, rebelliousness,  pcfear, pclove, and pchate.

[Krymzin]

I have a question concerning something I've been curious about for awhile now.

I had this thought about certain traits having an effect with items given to a girl and was wondering if it would be possible.

I actually came up with two trait ideas that led me to that question. One was a vampirism trait for vampire girls. If you were to buy a vial of blood and give it to a normal girl, they'd probably freak out and think you were some sicko, but a vampire girl would obviously see it like a treat, like giving chocolates to normal girls.

The other idea I had when I realized I wanted to add some kind of money sink in to the game, since making huge wads of cash, then having little to spend it on became common for me. The idea was basically an android girl with no traits except for an 'Android' trait that was sort of linked with disc items. She wouldn't learn anything through training or events, but you could buy relatively common, but crazily overpriced computer discs that would give an android girl, and only an android girl various traits and stats so they could be customized in-game for large amounts of money and a bit of persistence.