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Author Topic: Influence Points  (Read 7506 times)

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Offline DocClox

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Influence Points
« on: December 13, 2009, 09:16:46 AM »
This is another idea I'd like to kick around a bit.

I'd like to change influence from a set % based on weekly bribe money to a system of influence points. You'd get points when you spent bribe money, or by doing good deeds, or by doing favours for the wealthy and powerful.  You'd spend them in stopping yourself from being raided, and you could use them in events to do things that would normally result in your being dragged off by the city guard. You could also potentially spend them to have the guard raid your rivals instead of you.

For most purposes, there'd be no change. Pay your monthly bribe money, let the game deduct influence points automatically to keep the guard off your back, and as long as you're paying enough to cover your reputation in town, plus any influence from your rivals to get you raided, there's no problem.

But it does mean you can stock up beyond that so that you can weather a time of official displeasure with minimal problems. Or that you could do something ill-advised and run so low that you had several weeks of raids before you managed to get the political situation under control.

You could also, potentially, use this political capital to see about appointing your own placemen to key posts in the city's civil service, which would then generate their own level of political capital.

Anyway, just a thought. The main point pro here is that you could do a lot more with influence points than with a single weekly bribe. The con point is that it complicates things a little, although it should be perfectly possible to ignore it and just make  a weekly payment as before.

Offline letmein

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Re: Influence Points
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2009, 03:25:47 PM »
I'm not positive what you're suggesting, but I like the current system just fine.  Keep things simple;  this seems like something that wouldn't add much to the game except for complication.
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Offline Savagefrog

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Re: Influence Points
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2009, 06:39:53 PM »
I like the thoughts of use points to keep raids off my back, I pay my weekly bribes an sometimes still get nailed in raids an lose a girl an items. I also like the idea of being able to use points once you have enough to get your rivals raided. For some people it will add something more to the game they will enjoy but to some others it will just be a pain. Sometimes it is hard to please everyone but this group tries hard to do it. :)

Offline GBCliff

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Re: Influence Points
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2009, 07:41:23 PM »
I like it. You could also use the influence (I personally like calling it Political Capital) to get girls out of jail, or to activate some other function(the city guards have a party one night at your brothel, you make major profits).

It could also lead to some interesting story and event development. A particularly conservative city councilman visits your brothel one week, do you A) take pictures and blackmail him B) inform his wife C) do nothing.


exodia91

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Re: Influence Points
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2009, 09:06:53 PM »
... I dislike this idea, mostly because it doesn't seem like it really has any point... you get influence points to keep the feds off your back... then spend influence points to make even MORE influence points... whats the point? If it isn't gonna have any noticeable affect on core gameplay, it's pointless and adds nothing constructive. Influence in the government has limited use for a brothel manager anyway, outside keeping the law off your back. Any events that could be "purchased" could just as easily be random events and add more variety to the game in a more logical manner.

Offline zodiac44

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Re: Influence Points
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2009, 12:05:02 AM »
The way I look at it, you pay bribes to keep someone off your back now - the fact that you paid them in the past won't stop them from screwing you over now - hence, there should be no accumulation of influence for paying bribes out.  If, however, you get dirt on someone important, you can use it as blackmail to get what you want.  Similarly, if a politician is a frequent visitor to your brothels, then he may have a vested interest in keeping officials off your back.  A bureaucrat might ask you for an under-the-table favor, in exchange for a favor to be named later.  These kinds of events could accumulate some sort of influence that the player could spend at his discretion when he gets in hot water.  Different levels of trouble could require spending differing amounts of influence as well.

Example 1: the player gets wind that the tax office is planning to audit the books of all brothels in the city, to ensure that everyone is paying the proper amounts.  It is possible that they would discover some of the money laundering tactics you use and slap a fine on your operations, or perhaps confiscate some of your property.  In addition, you would be watched very closely in the future to assure compliance.

The player has the option to call in some favors he is owed to ensure that the auditors don't look too closely at his books.  This is a minor annoyance that likely won't be much trouble for a mid-level bureaucrat to arrange.  The player need call in only 1 favor.

Example 2: A captain in the city guard is found murdered, and the grapevine says that the player is responsible.  Intervening to get the guards to back down or direct their attention elsewhere would be an incredibly risky proposition.  The player will need to call in many favors if he doesn't want to face the guard himself.
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Offline Bloodly

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Re: Influence Points
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2009, 12:49:55 AM »
Influence points?

"The brothel in Westside, along with it's workers, has defected to you, feeling you are culturally superior."

A cookie if you understand the reference.  It's also where I see this leading.  Not that it's a bad thing to emulate...

Balmung60

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Re: Influence Points
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2009, 01:42:57 AM »
Galciv II amirite? Now, how about that cookie?

Offline letmein

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Re: Influence Points
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2009, 01:43:59 AM »
I still don't really see the point of adding this.  I just don't see how this would measurably improve gameplay...
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Offline Savagefrog

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Re: Influence Points
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2009, 01:49:01 AM »
I always try to find different play styles when I play, for me any new stuff added just givies more way to play different.

Offline DocClox

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Re: Influence Points
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2009, 02:57:32 AM »
whats the point? If it isn't gonna have any noticeable affect on core gameplay, it's pointless and adds nothing constructive.
It's not going to have any effect on core gameplay by design. The whole idea is that people worry that new stuff are going to break the game, or people who just want to manage their brothels and don't want to involve themselves in the criminal and political aspects of the game don't need to worry because it won't impact especially on them.

It is however, going to affect non-core gameplay. That's the point.

I like it. You could also use the influence (I personally like calling it Political Capital) to get girls out of jail, or to activate some other function(the city guards have a party one night at your brothel, you make major profits).

I like "political capital" as well. It was what I was going to call the mechanism initially but decided "influence points" might need less explanation.  Perhaps I should have stuck with my first thoughts...

I still don't really see the point of adding this.  I just don't see how this would measurably improve gameplay...

Well, it gives us something else to use as rewards and penalties in events, and it means greater flexibility in how we handle the player's relationship with the city's civil authorities. Mainly, I see if as being useful when we come to write some of the more complex events we talked about elsewhere.

I'd also make the cost of buying influence non-linear, so the more you had, the more expensive it was to improve it. That means that to get the higher levels you'd need to look at some political options. There are some things you shouldn't be able to buy with gold.

The other thing this gives us is the possibility for the PC (by accident or design) to burn off all the good will he has at city hall in one go by doing something totally outrageous. For instance, I have a vague idea an event that gives the player the chance to run a slaver raid on a nunnery and nab some sanctified snatch for the brothels. To do that, you should either need to make sure that you have considerable political capital to weather the consequences, or else you should get some ongoing reprisals until you can smooth ruffled feathers in various quarters. We can't do that with the current system. It's always at 99% (assuming you're paying enough) and adding temporary penalties to the influence rate is by no means simple.

I suppose we could do something similar with gold: say you can't proceed until you make a bribe of X thousand gold ... but that seems a bit flat and one-dimensional, it doesn't allow for the possibility of a political storm if you misjudge it, and as I said earlier ... it would be nice to think that some things couldn't be bought purely in gold.

There's not a lot of effect on current gameplay by design. What this is about is enabling some of the features we've talked about elsewhere, proposals that were well received at the time.

I'm looking to the future here.

exodia91

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Re: Influence Points
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2009, 03:04:17 AM »
But... you said you buy influence points with gold bribes. Hence you could just throw ludicrous bribes every week and pretty much do whatever you please. Just like now.

Offline DocClox

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Re: Influence Points
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2009, 03:13:30 AM »
But... you said you buy influence points with gold bribes. Hence you could just throw ludicrous bribes every week and pretty much do whatever you please. Just like now.

Well, I'm thinking of making the conversion rate from gold to influence non linear. That would make low levels of influence are cheap, but high levels much more expensive, while very high levels are ruinously so. Added to the finance tuning stuff that's going into the next release, you probably won't have the gold to chuck ludicrous amounts into bribes.

I'd like players to be able to maintain their standing with a bribe, but for special events and occasions, they'd need to either scrimp and save for a while, or else do a few favours here and there and build up some good will.

Of course, a player could just set the income levels high enough that they'd have ludicrous amounts of money to throw at the problem. In which case, that's their privilege. But when we get around to setting balanced preset options, you shouldn't be able to do everything with money. At least not for very long.

Offline letmein

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Re: Influence Points
« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2009, 01:00:23 PM »
I guess I can see what you're getting to, Doc.  I'm still not entirely sold, if for no other reason than I want to see how the game works with some of the other planned updates before adding in something like this.  Or, in oft-repeated fashion:  wait for the building update!
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Offline DocClox

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Re: Influence Points
« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2009, 01:13:32 PM »
Well, none of this is planned for tomorrow. I've got the tail end of the config file testing to do, and then the merge with nec's new building system. After that, I want to see how the new stuff plays too, because so far I haven't had a chance to do that either.

Then probably back to the XML screen formats, probably with a lot of bug-fixing thrown in, Lua integration, an overhaul of the scripting system so we can use it with Lua, and after that I have a mod I've been threatening to make. 

If this happens it'll be around the Lua integration stage