Pink Petal Games

PyTFall => PyTFall: Game design => Topic started by: Xela on April 11, 2014, 05:57:06 AM

Title: <--Archived--> (ST concept)
Post by: Xela on April 11, 2014, 05:57:06 AM
Oki

So my thoughts:

- Training should happen in non-brothel buildings
- Several girls can receive some training at the same time
- Girls can be either:
* Individually trained by the MC (disposition bonus)
* Train by themselves as ordered
* Trained by other trainers (new girls class)
all with it's receptive bonuses/penalties.

- Obedience training should be stat related (-1000 to 1000 range)
- Once specific obedience level is reached (based mostly on traits), girl should do any task but with penelties to joy/disposition if she hates the task
- The above should be a flag and have some serious effect on value
- Training should include but not be limited to:
* Talking (explaining situation girl has found herself in, telling her a bit about business, classes and etc.)
* Punishing/Rewarding for performance (Sex/Good food/Toys/Walks depending on traits)
* Training specific tasks obviously, may be done through layer of substats or something like skills trees or stats up to 10 max for example.
* Doing chores/jobs in the city, should be unlocked as player meets more and more NPCs

- PyTFall educators will not accept slaves that have not accepted their fate (they will train skills, not slaves)
- It will have a look similar to interactions I expect

For now I am leaning towards events/traits based training, but it's open for discussion. Any ideas/thoughts are welcome, the once I like or we all agree upon I'll add to this list, after a while I will write some specifics in the second post.

===
Dark:
* Living conditions, including sleeping place and food quality. Including, but not limited to, dungeons.
* Rules for slaves.
* Various punishments and rewards for obeying/disobeyed orders.
* Since you want to widely use trait-like stats, maybe add obedience/loyality/pride/fear traits as well.
* Slaves auction if you feel like coding a descent algorithm for it.
* Running away. Not sure how to deal with it without both life simulation and EE. They pretty much have nowhere to hide. Thus, maybe add a LS system as well.
* Special items like various shackles for rebellious slaves that consume their equipment slots and give stats penalties, but decrease chances to escape/resist/etc.
* Enslavement/abduction, like in wm, but balanced properly.

=========
I'll expand the list as more ideas are suggested.
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: Xela on April 11, 2014, 05:57:38 AM
-- reserved --
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: DarkTl on April 11, 2014, 12:40:24 PM
I propose to introduce MC house for ST here. With dungeon and stuff.

Like a mini brothel, with rooms and capacity, maybe furniture in the distant future. Ideally, you need guards to watch over your house and slaves, service girls to keep house, strippers/whores (maybe we should combine these classes...) to "warm your bed".
Thus, you won't start with a brothel five minutes after arriving in the city.

And, having a house, MC could ignore brothels and make money by training and selling slaves. The first step to optionality of brothels.
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: Xela on April 11, 2014, 01:33:05 PM
I propose to introduce MC house for ST here. With dungeon and stuff.

Like a mini brothel, with rooms and capacity, maybe furniture in the distant future. Ideally, you need guards to watch over your house and slaves, service girls to keep house, strippers/whores (maybe we should combine these classes...) to "warm your bed".
Thus, you won't start with a brothel five minutes after arriving in the city.

And, having a house, MC could ignore brothels and make money by training and selling slaves. The first step to optionality of brothels.

Yeap.

Both routes should be available from the get go.
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: h3nta1fun on April 11, 2014, 02:06:46 PM
I propose to introduce MC house for ST here. With dungeon and stuff.

Like a mini brothel, with rooms and capacity, maybe furniture in the distant future. Ideally, you need guards to watch over your house and slaves, service girls to keep house, strippers/whores (maybe we should combine these classes...) to "warm your bed".
Thus, you won't start with a brothel five minutes after arriving in the city.

And, having a house, MC could ignore brothels and make money by training and selling slaves. The first step to optionality of brothels.


I like the idea. But it shouldn't be so simple to get all the trining areas at the beginning. Something a bit more modular is probably better, that is to expand the house. So you start with just the most basic of houses, 1 room for MC, 2 rooms that can be used by whores and another one for an upgrade (bar, strip room, ST room/mini dungeon/lockdown room, kitchen for less upkeep for your staff), then some options for a backyard (a garden, a shed that can be used as a ST room, a pool/bathing area for relaxing).


Over time you should be able to get more upgrades available if you can either afford or unlock them somehow (for later possible events).


You can train your girls in there, or have them service strangers for skill training. I think you shouldn't be capable of turning it into a brothel, otherwise it would be just one more building. Instead they can get "customers" aka "guests" that either have sex, watch a mini strip show (lapdance also?), get drinks, for a small tip. Because it isn't really a brothel you don't get taxed for it, but on the other hand you don't get paid their full price for their services.


Eventually you can either sell the slaves for a profit or alternatively use this as a training ground for sending them to a brothel. Because either you train them (for bonus stat and disposition gains, plus stat gains for you) or your "guests" (if you don't want to use up AP- but no extra bonuses), the expectations shouldn't be high. So even the "guests" will be happy to have their way with them, without complaining about cold sandwiches :D


In the meanwhile, you can be focusing either on their training, the Arena or starting an running a brothel.


An interesting concept is to eventually have VIPs visiting your house once you are famous enough. Those could get also serviced by one of your girls (and you can even join for a group scene) and if they are happy they can sponsor you by offering you rewards based on their class. For example warrions can give you rare weapons, armor and equipment. Merchants, money and other rare items, Nobles, a lot of money and fame. Finally Slavers could offer you a girl at a discounted price. Over time the more famous you become, the better the classes of those VIPs are going to get and so will the bonuses. However their expectations will also increase.


To make the above a bit more unique, the VIPs will not come to your house by themselves, but instead will be invited by you. The concept behind it will be like the arena challenges and matches, only here you'll have to choose between different classes with different stat bonuses, rewards, expectations and fame requirements for you ( a Noble isn't going to show up if you have 0 fame ::) [size=78%])[/size]
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: Xela on April 11, 2014, 02:29:46 PM
Most of those are events, not normal operations. Lets try and focus on what the ST will be like!

I imagine couple of new buildings with different kinds of updates (did not think those through yet), prolly something security (anti-escape), relaxing (garden), scary (dungeon) related.

You enter a building like you would a brothel, instead of the management window, you get a background pic, small management window with most options on pop-up windows, all girls that are available for training (not resting) as imagebuttons (depending on their moods (like scared, defiant, content etc...)). There are not there if they're trained by a trainer, you can find them separately somewhere. It is possible to perform a number of actions right there or pick a girl individually and train her.

Available options that I came up with right now. Basically I am looking for ideas that are more down to earth right now, any system can be expanded later.
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: h3nta1fun on April 11, 2014, 02:41:09 PM
For the most part it is similar to your idea (the first half of it). The later is indeed something that might be possible much later (beta version +).


The house thing can be a bit of a beggining building for that. Can modify/change some rooms for that, like regular rooms, a basement etc.


You either train them yourself, pick a random guy (least amount of stats but free of charge), or a trainer (more stats but have to pay for their services).


That is more feasible for now, I think.
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: DarkTl on April 12, 2014, 05:29:31 AM
Well, you could port a couple of things from other games here.

* Living conditions, including sleeping place and food quality. Including, but not limited to, dungeons.
* Rules for slaves.
* Various punishments and rewards for obeying/disobeyed orders.
* Since you want to widely use trait-like stats, maybe add obedience/loyality/pride/fear traits as well.
* Slaves auction if you feel like coding a decent algorithm for it.
* Running away. Not sure how to deal with it without both life simulation and EE. They pretty much have nowhere to hide. Thus, maybe add a LS system as well.
* Special items like various shackles for rebellious slaves that consume their equipment slots and give stats penalties, but decrease chances to escape/resist/etc.
* Enslavement/abduction, like in wm, but balanced properly.
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: DarkTl on April 12, 2014, 09:57:40 AM
I recall there was specific traits system in wm ex, something like "bdsm lvl 1" or "group lvl 3", don't remember the actual names, for all sex skills. They existed along with stats and limited their max levels, but they probably can replace stats completly.

So maybe we should limit girls sex related stats to one general sex stat, like we did with MC, and use traits like lesbian, bj, anal, group, bdsm, maybe even hj/fj, etc. with numerical levels. Or, if you don't like numbers here, with descriptive names like amauter/master/etc. There were 3 levels in wm ex if I'm not mistaken, we could use 3-5.
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: Xela on April 12, 2014, 01:37:41 PM
I recall there was specific traits system in wm ex, something like "bdsm lvl 1" or "group lvl 3", don't remember the actual names, for all sex skills. They existed along with stats and limited their max levels, but they probably can replace stats completly.

So maybe we should limit girls sex related stats to one general sex stat, like we did with MC, and use traits like lesbian, bj, anal, group, bdsm, maybe even hj/fj, etc. with numerical levels. Or, if you don't like numbers here, with descriptive names like amauter/master/etc. There were 3 levels in wm ex if I'm not mistaken, we could use 3-5.

Obscuring stats again hah? Any ideas on how we should track them? Like ranges/Strings (results of training)?

I will go back to coding tomorrow and will have some time this Tuesday as well. First, plan is to redo taxes a little bit and finish the restructure of the brothel class (forgot to move finances to the parent class). Afterwards I'll start with preparing stuff for ST system.
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: DarkTl on April 12, 2014, 02:49:53 PM
Well, for a start they all should be limited by general sex stat. For example, you need at least 30 to have lvl1 anal (or, using skyrim terminology, be Apprentice in that skill), and, I don't know, maybe 200 to have lvl 5 (aka Master level) and 500 for end game characters to have lvl 6 (aka Legendary)  :D

Maybe they should have different limitations, like 30 for anal, 20 for bj and 40 for bdsm lvl 1.

Next, in wm ex these traits have hidden progress, so when a girl do group with MC or a client, the hidden progress for group traits is increasing. That's one option.

Another option is give levels automatically with increasing of sex stat if the girl is willing to participate in corresponding actions. So, you need high obedience/loyality/libido/whatever for high lvl sex traits.

Option #3 is using MC with skill tree where he has skills like "Master of bj" or "Expert in anal", and/or expensive manuals, and/or even more expensive (but less rare) sex schools to get new ranks of these traits when a girl has high enough sex stat. And high enough obedience/loyality/libido/whatever.
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: DarkTl on April 12, 2014, 03:03:55 PM
One more thing, if you intend to replace Intelligence with retarded<->genius traits, some kind of hidden progress is required anyway, even if limited. Being silly and become, well, maybe not smart/genius, but at least average is not impossible.
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: Marquis on April 12, 2014, 06:10:32 PM

Training obedience is the main thing I see that differentiates ST from the training that already exists at the academy or by MC Interactions.
Girls in ST could also use the pytfall academy style of training or MC interaction training. What is unique to ST is training obedience.

The structure I outline below is based on Obedience being on a 0 to 100 scale: at 0 the girl will do something only if she wants to, at 100 she is fully obedient even if she hates the act. Most girls will start with Obedience=0.

Some current traits should have universal modifiers to a girl's obedience stat
Mindfucked or Broken Will set Obedience to 100
Iron Will sets Obedience to 0
Dependant or Meek add +20 to the stat.

Obedience required to do various acts without other coercion/reward may have different thresholds.
For example, Strip might have a threshold of obedience=20 and Normal Sex obedience=40. Getting fairly paid for a job may modify this threshold.
Paying a girl 100% of the proper wage for a job might lower a threshold by -10.

Currently traits modify sex skills or change their maximum. This can stay the same. What would be added to traits are obedience modifiers to thresholds.

Some traits might modify this obedience threshold for all sex acts. e.g. Strict morals +20 to all thresholds, Nympho -20 to all, Bisexual -10 to all.
Others might affect only some acts.

For example, here's a sample of what could be the thresholds and some traits that modify those thresholds:
Service    obedience 10 to do it for free. Paying fair wages -10 reduces this to 0 required.
Strip       obedience 15 : exhibitionist -10
Blowjob   obedience 25
Sex        obedience 30
Lesbian  obedience 30 : lesbian -20
Anal       obedience 40
Group     obedience 50   
BDSM- dom obedience 60 : Tsundere -5, Aggressive -5, Meek +20, Merciless -10, Sadistic -30, Malicious -10, Kind +20
BDSM- sub obedience 80 : Aggressive +5, Meek -20, Masochist -30

So, in order to have girl with no traits trained to be a whore as they exist now (without Group or BDSM), her Obedience stat needs to be 40 to do it without pay.
If she's a Nympho (-20), she can have an Obedience stat of 20 and still be willing to be a whore for no pay. A Meek, Masochistic, Nympho might
readily be a BDSM Submissive (threshold only 10) but balk at other acts, so might not be ready for a Whore job in a brothel but used for specialty clients.
Letting your Aggressive, Merciless, Sadistic, Malicious Tsundere loose in the brothel might have lead to a dead body count.

Some other thoughts:
Warrior MCs may get a bonus to train slaves to be obedient by force.
Casanova MCs may get a bonus to train obedience using persuasion.
Items may be bought that affect obedience.
Drugs might add the Dependant trait (and give +20 obedience)

-end-
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: Xela on April 13, 2014, 05:05:18 AM
One more thing, if you intend to replace Intelligence with retarded<->genius traits, some kind of hidden progress is required anyway, even if limited. Being silly and become, well, maybe not smart/genius, but at least average is not impossible.

I don't necessarily intend to do anything, as mentioned before every approach has it's (often huge) advantages and disadvantages.

============
Option that I've been (strongly) trying out in my head:

Traits serve as delimiter ranges for stats (it was suggested somewhere I think). Right now the shittiest part about our/WM system is that all girls are very generic and especially at higher levels their traits become less and less relevant. We could have traits (or even locked traits) determining ranges for stats. It's another decent option to consider.

...

Decent setup, doesn't solve the "accepting slavery" issue and is a bit linear. Still a good start for indepth concept.
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: DarkTl on April 13, 2014, 05:53:45 AM
Right now the shittiest part about our/WM system is that all girls are very generic and especially at higher levels their traits become less and less relevant. We could have traits (or even locked traits) determining ranges for stats. It's another decent option to consider.
Yup, an interesting idea. Then again, we need to decide how to track them.

I personally like wm ex approach, but it is not as simple and easy as others.
But, as clumsy as it might be from the point of view of tracking, sex traits system will greatly reduce the number of stats, like 1 single stat instead of dozens.
====================================================================
My thoughts about stats.

* We have full set for intelligence ready to go, maybe except the average intelligence level (just like average boobs).

* Charisma is a  compelling attractiveness or charm. I'd say it's not the actual beauty (they all are beautiful at pictures), it's the ability to use their  beauty correctly. We also have many items increasing it, like makeups.

Here we could use descriptive traits like boobs/legs/arse, maybe your favorite Cute trait, as well as Cool/Pretty/Lovely/Lolita/etc to determine range for charisma stat.

* Refinement is  fineness or elegance of feeling, taste, manners, language, etc. Basically, knowledge about society and stuff. Theoretically, it does not have a max level, there is always something new you could learn here. We do have a couple of traits, like elegant or well-mannered, that could affect it, but not many. Not sure what to do with it.

* Character is the inherent complex of attributes that determines a persons moral and ethical actions and reactions, or something like that. But in the game we use it more like pride or stubbornness, not as a character, so maybe we should rename it, or at least add pride as a substat (like fitness for constitution in SM3).
Once again, some traits like Iron Will or Dependant affect it.

* Constitution is the most clear our stat. Come to thing of it, you cannot be infinitely enduring, so here we could use traits to determine range, we have a lot of them.

Another thing is fitness. Basically, no matter how enduring you are, you cannot always be in top shape without physical activity, that's what it does as a substat in SM3. I always liked the idea.

* Magic defence. I propose to usethe formula mdef=(def+int)/3, or something like that. Right now magic is useless, because it requires mp AND it does about the same damage as attacks.

* Skills should be obtainable. For example, a lvl1 warrior does not have a service skill at all, thus she should have -------- on the skills page instead of service 0/20 for example. And she requires some basic training for a start to obtain it.
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: CherryWood on April 13, 2014, 06:24:12 AM
* Character is the inherent complex of attributes that determines a persons moral and ethical actions and reactions, or something like that. But in the game we use it more like pride or stubbornness, not as a character, so maybe we should rename it, or at least add pride as a substat (like fitness for constitution in SM3).
Once again, some traits like Iron Will or Dependant affect it.
???  It never came to my mind that character could mean something like morals... but it make sense...
I always thought of it as "power of personality", something that all these tsunderes and unwavering hero characters would have... actually, that's what "Charisma" mean in a lot RPG's  :)  (where you can be ugly and charismatic at the same time)


so yeah, it is confusing...
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: Xela on April 13, 2014, 06:41:44 AM
Yup, an interesting idea. Then again, we need to decide how to track them.

Track? Basically it's the system that we have now but min/max are determined by traits. Not all stats would be a good fit for this but some, like charisma or intelligence seem perfect.

Basically, every single girl in the game must have one of the main traits, that determines her range. When a girl is loaded into the game, her stat is set in the middle of that range, then effects of other, subtraits are applied (that can also raise/decrease maximums). I think that main traits should be locked but some subtraits should be obtainable (items/achievements/events). Those maximums would also be excluded from increasing on level ups.

I think it's a sound plan that doesn't require too many changes to the system, that you/CW can help develop (coming up with traits/descriptions/ranges) and it will make girls unique and never put them all in the "same boat" even at very high levels.

====================================================================
My thoughts about stats.

* We have full set for intelligence ready to go, maybe except the average intelligence level (just like average boobs).

* Charisma is a  compelling attractiveness or charm. I'd say it's not the actual beauty (they all are beautiful at pictures), it's the ability to use their  beauty correctly. We also have many items increasing it, like makeups.

Here we could use descriptive traits like boobs/legs/arse, maybe your favorite Cute trait, as well as Cool/Pretty/Lovely/Lolita/etc to determine range for charisma stat.

* Refinement is  fineness or elegance of feeling, taste, manners, language, etc. Basically, knowledge about society and stuff. Theoretically, it does not have a max level, there is always something new you could learn here. We do have a couple of traits, like elegant or well-mannered, that could affect it, but not many. Not sure what to do with it.

* Character is the inherent complex of attributes that determines a persons moral and ethical actions and reactions, or something like that. But in the game we use it more like pride or stubbornness, not as a character, so maybe we should rename it, or at least add pride as a substat (like fitness for constitution in SM3).
Once again, some traits like Iron Will or Dependant affect it.

* Constitution is the most clear our stat. Come to thing of it, you cannot be infinitely enduring, so here we could use traits to determine range, we have a lot of them.

Another thing is fitness. Basically, no matter how enduring you are, you cannot always be in top shape without physical activity, that's what it does as a substat in SM3. I always liked the idea.

* Magic defence. I propose to use use the formula mdef=(def+int)/3, or something like that. Right now magic is useless, because it requires mp AND it does about the same damage as attacks.

- Charisma is as good of a name for general attractiveness for a girl as any.

- Character as well, it should be one of the main factors in ST. I see little reason to rename it, we could on the other hand make it one of the trait ranged stats if we decide to take that road.

- Refinement, you're right about this one, it should prolly just stay as it is.

- I am not sure Constitution should be a traits ranged stat, need to think about this one for a while. Also AP is tied to it...

- MD is prolly a BE thing, we'll get back to it when we go back to it's further development.

* Skills should be obtainable. For example, a lvl1 warrior does not have a service skill at all, thus she should have -------- on the skills page instead of service 0/20 for example. And she requires some basic training for a start to obtain it.

I disagree with this completely, there is no reason why a warrior cannot clean for example or cannot be very good at household chores. Doing them for money she may refuse, that I'd understand.
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: Xela on April 13, 2014, 06:44:08 AM
so yeah, it is confusing...

I dont want to have even more main stats... splitting those is out of the question.

Making descriptions for stats might not be a bad idea in order to make them less confusing.
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: DarkTl on April 13, 2014, 09:54:17 AM
- Charisma is as good of a name for general attractiveness for a girl as any.
My point is that charisma is derived from beauty, and beauty in the game is based on traits. So it's like a multiplier, the more beautiful a girl, the more charisma she could have at max. But beauty itself is not everything, she has to learn how to use it, and that what charisma is.
We also could add more descriptive traits to develop this system.

- Character as well, it should be one of the main factors in ST. I see little reason to rename it, we could on the other hand make it one of the trait ranged stats if we decide to take that road.
What bothers me here is that we use character for everything. It's pride, it's morality, it's even  "power of personality". Too many for one stat.
Perhaps we should add some more traits structures to relieve the stat.

- I am not sure Constitution should be a traits ranged stat, need to think about this one for a while. Also AP is tied to it...
Unless we talking about androids and undead, max body constitution is very limited. Thus, maybe here we should begin to use races as more than just strings. Not just for constitution, but for all stats, with bonuses and penalties. It also will make girls even more unique.

I disagree with this completely, there is no reason why a warrior cannot clean for example or cannot be very good at household chores. Doing them for money she may refuse, that I'd understand.
But there is no reason why every warrior should be very good at household chores as well. It depends on the character. When, for example, some retarded whore knows nothing about magic, she shouldn't have magic at all, probably.
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: Xela on April 13, 2014, 10:53:59 AM
My point is that charisma is derived from beauty, and beauty in the game is based on traits. So it's like a multiplier, the more beautiful a girl, the more charisma she could have at max. But beauty itself is not everything, she has to learn how to use it, and that what charisma is.

I don't understand where you're going with that. I proposed a system just like that, basetraits to specify a fixed range and subtraits to further modify them. How is your any point different?

What bothers me here is that we use character for everything. It's pride, it's morality, it's even  "power of personality". Too many for one stat.
Perhaps we should add some more traits structures to relieve the stat.

No idea how to develop a system even more complicated right now, if you have specific proposals that do not overcomplicate the development, lets have them.

Unless we talking about androids and undead, max body constitution is very limited. Thus, maybe here we should begin to use races as more than just strings. Not just for constitution, but for all stats, with bonuses and penalties. It also will make girls even more unique.

That's overthinking it. The goal should be to create a smart system that has gameplay value, I understand where this is coming from and it's not the first time this issue has been raised but we're not doing "universe/character comparisons". It's messy as sh!t in game of broad scale and impossible to balance out.

But there is no reason why every warrior should be very good at household chores as well. It depends on the character. When, for example, some retarded whore knows nothing about magic, she shouldn't have magic at all, probably.

Seems like a feature without any added gameplay benefit, like hiding a stat if it's at it's minimum. I see absolutely no point in this.

==========================
In the end, the trap of this discussion is going the Otherworld way and spending month/years developing and over-complicating stat systems and GUI while adding practically 0 gameplay/re-playability value to the game.

We need an intuitive system that shows differences in characters with least effort, we're already doing it fairly well by the way! But as players and we ourselves have pointed out, it has weaknesses:

- Traits get lost in high levels (effects are to weak)
- Very difficult to maintain
- Stats completely mismatch the pictures (charisma)
- Traits do not match the stats (retarded girl at level 50 can easily have more intelligence than a genius at level 1)

Lets try and focus on fixing what's broken here and with specific ideas/proposals instead of generalizations. So far the traits ranges thing seems like a good answer to many of these issues and it is something that I do not have to work at along so it's a double win. Other option is to leave everything as it is. If you see how a WM EX way is solving these issues, specify cause I've either forgotten how it works or absolutely cannot see it.

Any other systems/ideas/mods to our system or traits range system are welcome but with specifics on how it should work and what it adds to the game (we require it at this point of development)!
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: DarkTl on April 13, 2014, 12:23:35 PM
No idea how to develop a system even more complicated right now, if you have specific proposals that do not overcomplicate the development, lets have them.
We already have strict morals trait for moral. And charismatic for leadership. That's a start.

That's overthinking it. The goal should be to create a smart system that has gameplay value, I understand where this is coming from and it's not the first time this issue has been raised but we're not doing "universe/character comparisons". It's messy as sh!t in game of broad scale and impossible to balance out.
This is one of the ways to make characters very unique btw, and not as messy as others  ::)

An android should be more enduring than an elf, you cannot avoid comparisons completly. The difference is that right now you have to manually set constitution to 90 for android and 20 for elf (for example), while with meaningful races you set (at first create if needed) races.

Since we cannot create races for all existing characters, there should be a way create custom races for pack makers. And that's it.

While creation of new races by modders could be messy, you can tell it about any third party mod, like new traits or items.

Seems like a feature without any added gameplay benefit, like hiding a stat if it's at it's minimum. I see absolutely no point in this.
A less messy gui? When we'll have 10 skills, only two that the girl actually knows will be there instead of
skill1 0/10
skill2 0/20
...
skillN 0/50.

- Stats completely mismatch the pictures (charisma)
It appears that you ignored my explanation about beauty and charisma in previous posts, too bad.

Charisma is the ability to use beauty. We cannot change looks because we cannot change pictures. Thus, we don't use beauty, but do use charisma instead.

Over time girl doesn't become more beautiful, instead she becomes more charismatic.
Now, even if you know how to use beauty, it doesn't mean that you will do it all the time, like 24/7. So pictures don't have to match charisma.

If you see how a WM EX way is solving these issues, specify cause I've either forgotten how it works or absolutely cannot see it.
One sex skill and leveled traits instead of dozens of specific sex skills. Seems very good to me, and less messy too.

Any other systems/ideas/mods to our system or traits range system are welcome but with specifics on how it should work and what it adds to the game (we require it at this point of development)!
Now that you mentioned it, I have some doubts about occupation system.

Let's take Evangelion as example. Characters from it cannot be warriors or even whores (because it's not enough to have female genitals to be a whore, you need some skill too). Maybe Asuka could be a terrible service girl, but Rei cannot do anything besides piloting of that thing and going to school.

I have this small issue in many packs, often I don't know which class should have a character, because she is neither one according to the source. So I have no choice but assign it randomly.

So perhaps class should not be mandatory, maybe we could use "undefined" value for it as well, and when a girl joins you, you could ask her to become one.
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: h3nta1fun on April 13, 2014, 12:41:12 PM
- Traits get lost in high levels (effects are to weak)
- Very difficult to maintain
- Stats completely mismatch the pictures (charisma)
- Traits do not match the stats (retarded girl at level 50 can easily have more intelligence than a genius at level 1)




One way of making traits more useful is bu not using absolute values, but instead relative ones. As such a trait will modify a certain stat by X % instead of X units. That should count as useful even on higher levels.


I wouldn't bother with the images. As much as it sounds interesting, it's only going to overcomplicate things (plus making the creation of girls packs almost impossible to do properly). Leaving it as it is should be good enough for now, after all there are other priorities for the moment.


Traits could also impose limits on how much a girl can increase a certain stat. A retarded girl shouldn't get a very high intelligence in the forst place.


To make traits more useful, there should be hard restrictions on how a girl gains them. Many games introduce items/potions that allow a girl to gain them. For example there are potions that give characters the Big Boobs trait. I think those shouldn't be included. While some traits can be indeed obtained over time (especially the character ones), others should be left alone, as it makes the girls that have them more unique. If all you need is money to get them, then there is no point of getting the X over the Y girl.


As for the stats, most of them are nice and adding more will be pointless. The group for example can be created by using an average of most of the other sex stats (excluding the lesbian stat if there are no females in the group). Otherwise a group session could be as profitable as having all of the customers on their own, cost more AP, but decrease the fatigue since she doesn't service each one on their own.
 
Bdsm could be handled as the rest of the acts, plus modifications that have to do with the character stat. If it is important enough, it can be added as a separate stat, but the development shouldn't take the WM approach with the multitudes of stats.
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: CherryWood on April 13, 2014, 01:01:21 PM
We already have strict morals trait for moral.

I knew this was a bad name for that trait... but I was not able to come with something better  :( . It's a personality defining trait, it has it's own lines in girlsmeets, something very close to tsundere. It should raise morality, but if you want to define "morals" by traits, I think we need something more neutral for that (not tied to personality).
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: Xela on April 13, 2014, 01:14:22 PM
We already have strict morals trait for moral. And charismatic for leadership. That's a start.

I am missing the point :(

This is one of the ways to make characters very unique btw, and not as messy as others  ::)

An android should be more enduring than an elf, you cannot avoid comparisons completly. The difference is that right now you have to manually set constitution to 90 for android and 20 for elf (for example), while with meaningful races you set (at first create if needed) races.

Since we cannot create races for all existing characters, there should be a way create custom races for pack makers. And that's it.

While creation of new races by modders could be messy, you can tell it about any third party mod, like new traits or items.

Same as above, I cannot understand how this will be applied.

While creation of new races by modders could be messy, you can tell it about any third party mod, like new traits or items.
A less messy gui? When we'll have 10 skills, only two that the girl actually knows will be there instead of
skill1 0/10
skill2 0/20
...
skillN 0/50.

Makes sense! Well, skills are one way to go, I do not really mind since it's something we'll require as game expands. I still do not understand why they should be hidden, there is no character that has a skill of 0 at something, unless it's comically implied.

It appears that you ignored my explanation about beauty and charisma in previous posts, too bad.

Charisma is the ability to use beauty. We cannot change looks because we cannot change pictures. Thus, we don't use beauty, but do use charisma instead.

Over time girl doesn't become more beautiful, instead she becomes more charismatic.
Now, even if you know how to use beauty, it doesn't mean that you will do it all the time, like 24/7. So pictures don't have to match charisma.
One sex skill and leveled traits instead of dozens of specific sex skills. Seems very good to me, and less messy too.

And you've ignored mine, the trouble is that it is clearly implied to be beauty primarily for girls and your explanation for MC all over the game since I've coded it that way, going back on that at this point is too late.

*I freaking fated the level up traits thing in WM EX :(

If take that direction, lets call them skills and use relevant stats as modifiers when ability is calculated. Seems a bit messy thought...

For example, Potion Brewing would be a skill adding value to intelligence. I don't think that we need generalized sex stat btw, with separate anal/les/bj stats. I still feel there is a better way to do this... I just don't know what it is yet  :D

Let's take Evangelion as example. Characters from it cannot be warriors or even whores (because it's not enough to have female genitals to be a whore, you need some skill too). Maybe Asuka could be a terrible service girl, but Rei cannot do anything besides piloting of that thing and going to school.

I have this small issue in many packs, often I don't know which class should have a character, because she is neither one according to the source. So I have no choice but assign it randomly.

So perhaps class should not be mandatory, maybe we could use "undefined" value for it as well, and when a girl joins you, you could ask her to become one.

Don't like the undecided idea, I expect that there is a bunch of code in the game that expects occupation to be set from the get go. I am not going to comment on any specific girl/show, it's a personal decision for content creators.
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: Xela on April 13, 2014, 01:22:50 PM

I knew this was a bad name for that trait... but I was not able to come with something better  :( . It's a personality defining trait, it has it's own lines in girlsmeets, something very close to tsundere. It should raise morality, but if you want to define "morals" by traits, I think we need something more neutral for that (not tied to personality).


I don't really have a problem with that...

One way of making traits more useful is bu not using absolute values, but instead relative ones. As such a trait will modify a certain stat by X % instead of X units. That should count as useful even on higher levels.

I am not sure I'll be comfortable with this, especially in game written in python. There are many traits and stats, calculating applied percentages every time stat/max is changed might hit nf performance. Doing it "on spot" is a lot of code... ranges set by traits do not require that.

Otherwise, many of the things you've mentioned are already in the game.
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: h3nta1fun on April 13, 2014, 01:35:29 PM
I don't really have a problem with that...

I am not sure I'll be comfortable with this, especially in game written in python. There are many traits and stats, calculating applied percentages every time stat/max is changed might hit nf performance. Doing it "on spot" is a lot of code... ranges set by traits do not require that.

Otherwise, many of the things you've mentioned are already in the game.


How about it only reapplies every time a girl gains a level. Indeed every time a stat is modified is a bit much and will have a performance hit. But they don't gain levels that frequently, so it wouldn't be that much. Not perfect, I know, but it would keep the stat modifying traits sohow useful after they gain too many levels.
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: DarkTl on April 13, 2014, 01:35:44 PM
Same as above, I cannot understand how this will be applied.
We create a json where we list races for our girls and their bonuses/penalties. Like, androids should have more cons, while elves should have more ref and less cons. These bonuses do not have to be huge, they just have to be.

Now, if pack maker wants to create a new race that we don't have yet, he creates the same json in the girl's folder and write there all stuff, then the game loads it with the girl.

Or, if you don't want to load it, he just writes the new race name in data file, and it does nothing except being there. So we lose nothing and get at least something.

And you've ignored mine, the trouble is that it is clearly implied to be beauty primarily for girls and your explanation for MC all over the game since I've coded it that way, going back on that at this point is too late.
Omg, where and when did I say that I mean MC only?  ???
Of course it is explanation for everyone, because no one is able to change looks, not only MC. And girls cannot suddenly become more beautiful than they already are. We don't have a cosmetic surgery for both genders.

Don't like the undecided idea, I expect that there is a bunch of code in the game that expects occupation to be set from the get go.
How about random occupation then?
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: h3nta1fun on April 13, 2014, 01:40:44 PM
The race idea is very similar to a templae with certain traits/stat mods that every member of said race should have, plus a few for each individual member of said race. Instead of doing that in the game itself, it could be done externally in an editing tool (like the one that WM had), that simply makes the xml files.
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: Xela on April 13, 2014, 01:48:40 PM

How about it only reapplies every time a girl gains a level. Indeed every time a stat is modified is a bit much and will have a performance hit. But they don't gain levels that frequently, so it wouldn't be that much. Not perfect, I know, but it would keep the stat modifying traits sohow useful after they gain too many levels.

All traits already apply their stat bonuses that way, 10% even 5 levels I think. It didn't solve girls giving off a generic feeling thing.

We create a json where we list races for our girls and their bonuses/penalties. Like, androids should have more cons, while elves should have more ref and less cons. These bonuses do not have to be huge, they just have to be.

If you feels that it adds value to the game... create the json, I'll load/apply it. IMO this is not needed, race will be used for locations placement (girlsmeets, exotic SM, capture etc..).

Omg, where and when did I say that I mean MC only?  ???
Of course it is explanation for everyone, because no one is able to change looks, not only MC. And girls cannot suddenly become more beautiful than they already are. We don't have a cosmetic surgery for both genders.

Nowhere and never, I said that GAME IS CODED that way already, I don't want to change texts/logic at this stage.

How about random occupation then?

Don't specify it at all. Game will try to randomize, it'll never be a warrior and prostitute is favored (reflecting games realities at Alpha stage, it may be adapted at latter stages).
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: DarkTl on April 13, 2014, 02:28:47 PM
I don't think that we need generalized sex stat btw, with separate anal/les/bj stats. I still feel there is a better way to do this... I just don't know what it is yet  :D
Come to think of it, bj is a rather strange stat, considering that we have hj and even fj tags, and probably will use bj skill for that type of actions anyway. Maybe it should have another name, a more general one.
========================================================================
Returning to ST, I like the idea of new class (that probably will be called mistress). We should limit the number of trained slaves per AP (unlike wm, where 1 poor mistress works with all slaves at once  :) ).

As for enslavement/abduction (quite a popular request btw), for a start it could greatly hit disposition of all girls that you have, also you need to beat the victim by yourself, and maybe stay unnoticed by guards (not sure how to make this part). Also the more fame the girl has, the more dangerous it should be for MC and his business.

As for enslaving girls that already work for him, well, no one can feel safe when such things happening, so even more great disposition penalty and maybe something more.
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: CherryWood on April 13, 2014, 03:46:28 PM
I do not favor races much... aren't there already traits like artificial body? I don't understand why create another system... especially if we manage to get more impact from traits. Or maybe we could just apply effects, like there already exist for some traits (extrovert...) but related to races? Like race: elf = effect "elven blood" or something.




btw. Because it's allowed to change occupations, we need a field in data files to disable some of them.


-----
Just some random idea: What about limiting levels? Some games have hard limits on what max. level of some characters could be. Sometimes this can be increased through story or some extra efforts, but a lot of times not, and that creates another layer of difference between character, who is talented to be a pro, and who is just a normal girl. (and makes extra hard-to-get characters more significant) (we could also limit ranks)
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: DarkTl on April 14, 2014, 01:18:45 AM
I do not favor races much... aren't there already traits like artificial body? I don't understand why create another system... especially if we manage to get more impact from traits. Or maybe we could just apply effects, like there already exist for some traits (extrovert...) but related to races? Like race: elf = effect "elven blood" or something.
The problem here is not artificial body (it is perfectly fulfills its function btw), the problem here is that we have one general trait for a large number of races. While Alien is more or less ok (not perfect though), Not Human does not do anything at all, except being a flag for events (and I'm even not sure if we use it in the code currently). While obviously there should be at least some differences between races.

I agree that we should use effects instead of race properties, it will be more elegant solution. If we create enough different effects, then we could use them for pretty much any existing race without the need to create new ones.

Of course, we also will need permanent effect field in girls data files.

Just some random idea: What about limiting levels? Some games have hard limits on what max. level of some characters could be. Sometimes this can be increased through story or some extra efforts, but a lot of times not, and that creates another layer of difference between character, who is talented to be a pro, and who is just a normal girl. (and makes extra hard-to-get characters more significant) (we could also limit ranks)
Maybe, but we need at least level field in girls data files (instead of exp) for a start.

Nowhere and never, I said that GAME IS CODED that way already, I don't want to change texts/logic at this stage.
Well, that's why it called code review, but not messing with code or having some fun with code for example  ::)
If the difference between charisma and pictures bothers you (or a lot of players), change it. I don't care personally, because I think about charisma like about charisma, not about beauty.
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: Xela on April 14, 2014, 04:05:08 AM
Well, that's why it called code review, but not messing with code or having some fun with code for example  ::)
If the difference between charisma and pictures bothers you (or a lot of players), change it. I don't care personally, because I think about charisma like about charisma, not about beauty.

Review is to improve readability, ensure possibility of future development and fix rookie mistakes. Not for rewriting the game.

I will not be around for the better part of the day, can you guys discuss and tell me what you think about the min/max range for stats based on "main" traits mechanism? I am only gonna go that way if one of handles the xml/json.

========
For races, we just need them for reasons I've mentioned above, if Dark wants to make them matter beyond that, I don't mind. Like mentioned before, to me it seems redundant.
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: DarkTl on April 14, 2014, 05:13:31 AM
Review is to improve readability, ensure possibility of future development and fix rookie mistakes. Not for rewriting the game.
As far as I understand, we talking about texts here mostly, not actual code. And not even all texts, but only some of them.
Even I probably could rewrite them a bit (providing that I know where are they).

I will not be around for the better part of the day, can you guys discuss and tell me what you think about the min/max range for stats based on "main" traits mechanism? I am only gonna go that way if one of handles the xml/json.
I gave it some thought. While it solves several problems, it gives us a new one.

For example, silly limits it to 100. Let's say, an average girl reaches 100 int by lvl50. And that's it, there is little point in gaining more levels if by 50lvl she will have max possible int anyway, because she is not genius and will never be.
Same could be said about any stat, except refinement.

Thus, maybe we should somehow adapt stats to this system. Maybe even use Cherry's idea about limiting levels.

Or never, ever limit skills by that system, so at least you could continue to gain levels for them and have 1000 sex by lvl 200 or something like that.

For races, we just need them for reasons I've mentioned above, if Dark wants to make them matter beyond that, I don't mind. Like mentioned before, to me it seems redundant.
I like Cherry's idea about effects. They don't have to be hardcoded and do something very unusual, like traits effects (it would be too much mess), I'll just create a json. Like elven blood or celestial origin effects, for example.

What required from you is a field in girls data files for these effects, and some place for them in gui, probably just with other effects.
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: Xela on April 14, 2014, 01:02:12 PM
I don't think that the stats range thing is an issue since not all stats will work that way, and we'll simple be creating new way of loading/handling traits.

On the effects topic, we decided not to do an effect field and have traits enable effects some time ago. Maybe race should be a locked trait?
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: DarkTl on April 14, 2014, 01:14:29 PM
I don't remember  :D

It could be traits, of course.
But I think we need to make it clear (for both us and players) which traits are locked and cannot be changed ever (boobs, race, etc), and which traits can be changed somehow eventually.

Maybe two lists of traits, or red frame around pemanent ones, or even rename permanent traits to something else, like features for example. Or some kind of small icon next to every permanent trait.
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: DarkTl on April 15, 2014, 01:15:46 AM
One more thing is objective of ST. In SM you literally have to maximize all stats to gain max profit.
And do not accept their declarations of love, otherwise you will never sell anyone. Maybe we should do the same thing here, like disposition should be less than obedience if you want to actually sell one.

In Valet you prepare slaves for specific requirements, like maid or clerk, and get a fixed sum for it. If you try to sell unprepared slave, you will get like 10-50 times less, depending on looks.

Also, in both games you either work independently (no time limit, less money and fame) or on request (strict time limit, more money and fame).

================
As a side note, I really like the idea of loyality as a stat that cannot be increased quickly and does complement obedience. Like, a girl with high ob and low loy will follow orders, but will run away or betray MC in other way when get the chance, while low ob high loy girl will not follow orders, but will prefer to stay with MC, help him when needed, etc.

On the other hand, disposition probably could work in the same way. Then again, the difference between disposition and loyality is that you don't have to be friends or lovers in order to be loyal to someone or even something (like to a guild or other organization).
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: Xela on April 15, 2014, 03:45:47 AM
One more thing is objective of ST. In SM you literally have to maximize all stats to gain max profit.
And do not accept their declarations of love, otherwise you will never sell anyone. Maybe we should do the same thing here, like disposition should be less than obedience if you want to actually sell one.

In Valet you prepare slaves for specific requirements, like maid or clerk, and get a fixed sum for it. If you try to sell unprepared slave, you will get like 10-50 times less, depending on looks.

Also, in both games you either work independently (no time limit, less money and fame) or on request (strict time limit, more money and fame).

-Noted-



================
As a side note, I really like the idea of loyality as a stat that cannot be increased quickly and does complement obedience. Like, a girl with high ob and low loy will follow orders, but will run away or betray MC in other way when get the chance, while low ob high loy girl will not follow orders, but will prefer to stay with MC, help him when needed, etc.

On the other hand, disposition probably could work in the same way. Then again, the difference between disposition and loyality is that you don't have to be friends or lovers in order to be loyal to someone or even something (like to a guild or other organization).

Man... every time I hear "one more stat" I get a little bit sick :(

Stats that have pinpoint precision like Alchemy/BJ/Cleaning etc. that are limited and easy to work with aren't a problem, but stats like Loyalty can be effected by loads of thing and are very hard to work with.

Maybe now that CW is starting to feel more comfortable messing with code a little bit things will get better but before then, I'd really want to avoid new "general" stats.
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: DarkTl on April 15, 2014, 04:01:52 AM
Assistants.

In SM you can have a bunch of assistants, both slaves and free, and even though you have to chose one for the current slave, others are still available for interaction.
In Valet it's only one assistant, and a slave only.

While we'll have a new class for slavetraing, we probably could use personal assistant(s) for MC house as well. Maybe she/they will give MC bonuses depending on her/their stats, traits and/or occupation. And, of course, it's an excellent way for a player to highlight a character/characters that he likes most.

Stats that have pinpoint precision like Alchemy/BJ/Cleaning etc. that are limited and easy to work with aren't a problem, but stats like Loyalty can be effected by loads of thing and are very hard to work with.
I wonder if we need character stat actually, because it's the most vague one. It is very close to obedience, while other its aspects are expressed via various traits. So I wonder if we should either replace it by loyalty or rename to temperament, for example.

Don't know about you, but I cannot give a clear and comprehensive explanation to character, unlike obedience, temperament, loyality or disposition.
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: Xela on April 15, 2014, 04:25:14 AM
Don't know about you, but I cannot give a clear and comprehensive explanation to character, unlike obedience, temperament, loyality or disposition.

Quote
1.
the mental and moral qualities distinctive to an individual.
"running away was not in keeping with her character"
synonyms:   personality, nature, disposition, temperament, temper, mentality, makeup; More

Google's definition.

I code with something similar in mind I guess, basically character is how strongly a girl would stand by her personality traits. It is by far one of the least used stats at the moment so yeah, if you can suggest a better, more useful stat, it's not too late to get rid of it. I like character over loyalty for sure because if I was to create a loyalty stat, it would be a derivative from disposition.
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: DarkTl on April 15, 2014, 05:39:35 AM
Hm, both Valet and SM have temperament, something like stubbornness and brightness of character.

And personality is
Quote
the sum total of all the behavioural and mental characteristics by means of which an individual is recognized as being unique
basically, how unusual and unique character is.

Temperament is probably closer to your definition, while personality is something way more general. I'd say personality is all stats and traits together rather than one stat.
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: Xela on April 15, 2014, 05:53:59 AM
But it's not hard to explain and easy to work with and does not require changing anything at all. I am definitely not going to change it to temperament.
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: DarkTl on April 15, 2014, 06:04:13 AM
"The mental and moral qualities distinctive to an individual" are traits.
"How strongly a girl would stand by her personality traits" is temperament.
Good luck with explaining all this in the character tooltip  ::)
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: DarkTl on April 15, 2014, 06:11:12 AM
Returning to ST, there are two modes. In SM you create a timetable and follow it as long as you want/need. In Valet you do anything you want whenever you want, providing that both MC and slave have enough AP and low fatigue (negative AP are high fatigue there).

We do have AP and MC, so Valet approach is totally possible. And we have a new slave training class for free charaters, here we actually could use schedules.
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: Xela on April 15, 2014, 06:18:47 AM
We've decided to go with the Valet type...
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: DarkTl on April 15, 2014, 06:24:12 AM
How do you propose to control slave trainers then? Manually give them orders every day, like in Valet?
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: Xela on April 15, 2014, 06:27:14 AM
How do you propose to control slave trainers then? Manually give them orders every day, like in Valet?

"control"? The whole idea behind trainers that you do not have to control the process. You tell them to train the slave in one/number of tasks and they do it to the best of their ability.
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: DarkTl on April 15, 2014, 06:31:39 AM
Yeah, and how do you control in which tasks exactly they will train slaves?
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: Xela on April 15, 2014, 06:37:35 AM
Yeah, and how do you control in which tasks exactly they will train slaves?

Pick from a list.
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: DarkTl on April 15, 2014, 06:46:55 AM
That should be more difficult then that.
*First of all, slave and trainer might have different amount of AP. Either slave's or trainer's AP could be in waste.
*One trainer probably could teach several slaves at once.
*A possibility to teach several skills at once.

Oh, and trainer cannot teach skills higher than she knows. And main stat for slave trainers probably should be character, though traits like sadistic and merciless should be very helpful too.
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: Xela on April 15, 2014, 07:01:13 AM
That's code related, I don't expect serious trouble in that area, not with Python.
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: DarkTl on April 15, 2014, 07:07:56 AM
Considering abduction/enslavement requests, for a start we must decide what is illegal in the game world, and what punishment might follow.

If we use wm-style, it includes abduction, torture to induce enslavement, actual non-exactly-legal enslavement. Not to mention taking relatives as slaves for debts (random girls, of course).
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: Xela on April 15, 2014, 07:24:29 AM
Considering abduction/enslavement requests, for a start we must decide what is illegal in the game world, and what punishment might follow.

If we use wm-style, it includes abduction, torture to induce enslavement, actual non-exactly-legal enslavement. Not to mention taking relatives as slaves for debts (random girls, of course).

Enslaving I wanted to be close to impossible... captured monster/non-citizen girls excluded. I am open to suggestions, if there are any.
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: DarkTl on April 15, 2014, 07:58:11 AM
Yeah, I guess rmg will be a good compromise.
In the future maybe a difficult and long enough quest to enslave one character per attempt, if players will want it that badly.

Though we could introduce mind control (drugs and stuff) instead.
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: CherryWood on April 15, 2014, 12:09:14 PM
 I'm trying to line up some concept for more brothel buildings... are you planning to introduce some new stats/upgrades for them with ST?  Like dungeons, security or something?
(not talking about MC house)
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: Xela on April 15, 2014, 01:25:17 PM
I'm trying to line up some concept for more brothel buildings... are you planning to introduce some new stats/upgrades for them with ST?  Like dungeons, security or something?
(not talking about MC house)

Prolly not for brothels...
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: DarkTl on April 15, 2014, 01:41:36 PM
Yup, I can't think of anything too.
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: CherryWood on April 15, 2014, 02:35:31 PM
Ok... I was thinking of it because of simbro1x where building have that. And I'm a real fan of non-linearity of buildings in that game. But our current upgrades are not enough to made such difference...
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: DarkTl on April 15, 2014, 03:20:34 PM
Well, MC house could use non-linearity of buildings as well. Probably even more than brothels, since you will have a house no matter what are you going to do in the game.
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: DarkTl on April 17, 2014, 07:39:24 AM
Hm, from the viewpoint of ingame laws we can explain inability to enslave anyone by the fact that a girl either should commit a very serious crime to be enslaved by the government itself, or be a daughter of slave (or maybe not, it could be a cheap way to get many slaves when/if we'll add pregnancy).
Thus, at slavemerket you can buy and sell traned, expensive slaves, and in prison you can buy cheap, untrained, dangerous ones, as well as sell rm girls for example.

I think we'll need a prison location eventually anyway, might as well add it with ST.
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: Xela on April 17, 2014, 02:09:46 PM
Hm, from the viewpoint of ingame laws we can explain inability to enslave anyone by the fact that a girl either should commit a very serious crime to be enslaved by the government itself, or be a daughter of slave (or maybe not, it could be a cheap way to get many slaves when/if we'll add pregnancy).
Thus, at slavemerket you can buy and sell traned, expensive slaves, and in prison you can buy cheap, untrained, dangerous ones, as well as sell rm girls for example.

I think we'll need a prison location eventually anyway, might as well add it with ST.

We should introduce citizenship vs no papers thing as discussed in the beginning? Otherwise it'll be messy...
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: DarkTl on April 17, 2014, 03:14:11 PM
Well, if we talking about rmg, it's understandable. But what about unique slaves, or rg slaves that are not monsters?
Or we imply that they all were originally captured outside the city and enslaved because they are not citizens?
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: Xela on April 17, 2014, 03:18:49 PM
Or we imply that they all were originally captured outside the city and enslaved because they are not citizens?

Pretty late for you? You never seem to be around past 8 - 9 PM at my timezone...

I figure we don't require to specify anything, enslaved = enslaved, doesn't matter how or where. Free girl with papers = super dangerous to enslave (game over of you're found out basically). Without papers, some paperwork/fee. We'll figure it out.
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: DarkTl on April 17, 2014, 03:31:28 PM
I am always around, it's just usually at this time I don't bother checking any forums because I can do it tomorrow at work, where I have much more free time :)

I wonder what should happen to sold slaves from the viewpoint of life simulation.
Should they immediately disappear from the game completely or stick around for some time, maybe successful enough free girls could buy them...
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: Xela on April 17, 2014, 03:35:42 PM
I wonder what should happen to sold slaves from the viewpoint of life simulation.
Should they immediately disappear from the game completely or stick around for some time, maybe successful enough free girls could buy them...

I think something simple like bought/sold again at small chance percentages to be diced every 10 - 20 days.
Title: Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
Post by: Marquis on May 21, 2014, 08:40:57 AM

Here are some rambling thoughts on types of girls sparked by 'why would you have both slaves and free girls?' Each should have some advantages and disadvantages.
I included a cap to brothel reputation for some girl types - e.g. even if slavery is technically legal, the reputation of a brothel might take a hit for having slaves. This would be no problem for the shack, but would limit the mansion.


Captured/Coerced girls - captured monster girls or adventurers in catacombs or elsewhere, maybe kidnapping free girls. Disobedient.   
   Cost to acquire - few APs
   Jobs- Only usable for jobs when coerced (e.g. chains/collar). No pay.
        Advantages - Free. May be sold for a small amount of gold. Raw material for slave training. Can be a rare type (monster girls) or exceptional stats.
        Disadvantages - Requires constant supervision/dungeon. Zero Joy/Disposition. Limits reputation of brothel and affects other girls' disposition towards MC.


Bought Slaves - bought at slave market. Obedient.
   Cost to acquire - gold (equivalent to about 100APs in the beginning).
   Jobs- Basic jobs. No pay.
   Advantages- Easy to manage. Will do any job. Giving optional payment or attention can improve joy/disposition to a point.
   Disadvantage- Limit to Disposition/Joy maximum (maybe 50%). Low to Average stats. Limits brothel reputation maximum.


Free girls - become employees. Disposition is important for obedience.
   Cost to acquire - APs/gold. Should only require a few APs for their 'desired' job, but lots of APs/gold to increase disposition for undesired jobs.
   Jobs- only the ones they want to do. Fair pay. Maybe they can be convinced to enter slave training voluntarily (exceptionally high disposition? supporting an addiction?)
   Advantages- Better girls (higher stats). No limit to joy/disposition. No limit to brothel reputation.
   Disadvantages- requires fair payment (lower profits).


Trained slaves - either a free girl or captured girl trained to be fully obedient
   Cost to acquire - many APs to convince a free girl to enter training. No cost for captured girls. Many APs to actually conduct training.
   Jobs - No pay. Unique jobs available (ponygirl/catgirl).
   Advantages - Can train a higher stat girl than usual for some jobs. No limit to brothel reputation. Can be sold (but probably not cost effective due to high APs required).
   Disadvantages - Time to train.


Low level brothel: trained or bought slaves and coerced girls as prostitutes
Medium level brothel: free girls in some jobs (service/stripper, rarely prostitute), trained or bought slaves as prostitutes (or stripper/service)
High level brothel: free girls and trained slaves in all jobs