<-- Archived --> (Battle Engine and Combat)

[Xela]

Well, rounds are a lot easier to work with than real time I expect... going to start working on be tonight after a break.

I think that positioning I got figured out, at least in my head but I can translate that into code fast enough. Next is turn/rounds logic. After that attacks and effects and conditions.

One thing I am completely clueless about are items, attacks and magic tracking and design but I expect that to get better after I got a chance to think about it...

[DarkTl]

Let's outline possible combat options.
- melee and ranged weapons and rows.
- normal attack and defense actions, also battle skills like double strike or steal that require vitality to use.
- spells, both single and mass that require mp to cast. Also there could be elemental weapons. All this require elements check.
- health and KO status. Healing spells and items, perhaps resurrection spells and items?
- status effects that can change stats (buffs, debuffs) and force actions, like petrifaction (no actions) or berserk (auto attack).
- possible run option, with a chance to succeed.

[Xela]

Let's outline possible combat options.
- melee and ranged weapons and rows.
- normal attack and defense actions, also battle skills like double strike or steal that require vitality to use.
- spells, both single and mass that require mp to cast. Also there could be elemental weapons. All this require elements check.
- health and KO status. Healing spells and items, perhaps resurrection spells and items?
- status effects that can change stats (buffs, debuffs) and force actions, like petrifaction (no actions) or berserk (auto attack).
- possible run option, with a chance to succeed.

Sounds like insane amount of work... dodging can also be fun.

I know that a lot is possible, I just don't know what should I try to get done before the next release (if anything at all, we can easily survive another release with Jake's BE while slowly working on our own).

[livingforever]

Hi!

I know that a lot is possible, I just don't know what should I try to get done before the next release (if anything at all, we can easily survive another release with Jake's BE while slowly working on our own).

If you get it done in time, it gets done in time. If you don't, nobody will complain (except for me of course, I always complain).

...

Don't forget agro management (targeting, taunts, etc.).

I think I didn't answer your request for a video of a good UI, did I.
Anyway, I don't have a video at hand, but here are two approaches that are reasonable:

Seperate input and output
Examples: RPGMaker, Pokemon

The basic idea is to strictly group controls and display.
Control layout is done with one directional menus (usually left to right -> top to bottom).

Advantages:

• Quick navigation
• Works good with keyboard only
• Simple to implement
• Easy to understand

On-display input
Examples: No concrete for your scenario, many 2.5D games use it, e.g. Blackguards

Generally, this approach keeps the amount of controls minimal at all times, only displaying what is needed.
Control is done using default button actions (e.g. left-click an enemy to attack) and a control wheel (also known as commo rose from the Battlefield series) that pops up around the target and displays appropriate actions (e.g. right-click an ally to bring up a circular menu with healing and defense options).

Advantages:

• Intuitive navigation
• Works good with mouse only
• Easy to learn

My preference definitely is the second approach, simply because it feels more like you're actively participating in battle (while the first option feels more like a simulator).

Naturally, there are lots of other control layouts, but they either wouldn't work for your combat design or they would be a pain in the ass to implement (and possibly not work with the character sprites).
Have fun!

[Xela]

Kickass BE for Ren'Py "exactly?" like Dark wanted

http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=30095

...

I've never played a game with an option two (I mean not one with a BE, it sounds somewhat similar to some strategy games). Going to take a look at the loop and the queue. Maybe come up with attack skill and some basic targeting before I fall asleep.

[DarkTl]

Kickass BE for Ren'Py "exactly?" like Dark wanted

Yeah, angry sheep are musthave for kickass BE.

Btw no matter the camera view we could use characters portraits near health bars, and even change them depending on health level.

[Xela]

Btw no matter the camera view we could use characters portraits near health bars, and even change them depending on health level.

That's child's play if we can gather some good resources or at least come up with a decent layout. All ui information overlays well be screens so it's very easy to get what we like.

[Xela]

BTW: I think it's a bad idea to allow using skills/spells outside of combat. Like restoration spell will make all restoring items obsolete without another confusing system where a character can only preform each spell x times per day which requires more tracking dictionaries or unique instances of spells for each spell.

In any case I am not planning to add this any time soon (if ever).

[DarkTl]

It always rises questions why they can heal in battle and not outside of it. Better to not make any healing/restoration spells at all then.

[Xela]

It always rises questions why they can heal in battle and not outside of it. Better to not make any healing/restoration spells at all then.

Answered by it being a matter of game design. I can come up with a load of "unexplainable" things in the game (almost any game for that matter), like in 3D games, why can't a fit man climb over any wall or climb up a tree while he can jump, run like a wind and sometimes use magic.

Maybe we'll add it someday but I doubt it.
=================

Going to put a few hours into BE this evening and maybe work on it for a bit longer tomorrow, so far I got just a bit over 200 lines of code.

[DarkTl]

Disciples has this too. There are characters who can freely heal in battle (not even mp is needed), but cannot outside. It only leads to long battles, when you kill everyone but the weakest enemy and heal your party to full while defending before killing the last enemy.

[Xela]

Disciples has this too. There are characters who can freely heal in battle (not even mp is needed), but cannot outside. It only leads to long battles, when you kill everyone but the weakest enemy and heal your party to full while defending before killing the last enemy.

I have no problem with this

[DarkTl]

Ok, if you say so.

I guess elemental defence could work in percentages. Fire 1 means 30%, Fire 2 means 60%, Fire 3 means 90% of fire damage will be ignored.

Another option to to make it work like in Dis: first fire attack, no matter its power, ignored completely, and that's it. In our case it could be 2 attacks for fire2 and three for fire3.

[Xela]

Ok, if you say so.

I guess elemental defence could work in percentages. Fire 1 means 30%, Fire 2 means 60%, Fire 3 means 90% of fire damage will be ignored.

Another option to to make it work like in Dis: first fire attack, no matter its power, ignored completely, and that's it. In our case it could be 2 attacks for fire2 and three for fire3.

That's an option, I would really like to avoid multiple alignments... I haven't even started with damage mechanics but there are so many ideas and possibilities... This is an overkill...

[Xela]

On hits, do we want writing like:

Our Amazing Hero landed Critical Strike on poor sod called "Goblin Archer"

in a pop-up window or

effects like bouncing text (same  as in Jake's BE)?