Whore Master Cathexis

[Ctwo]

Great to hear that an official WMII is being worked on Necno. Hopefully it goes a lot stronger than a lot of the other 2 projects that have just fizzled.

[graodeareia]

First thing I'd like to say is that I kinda abandoned the project. After I decided that Qt wasn't the right tool for the job I restarted the project using QML/C++. I watched some tutorial videos and things looked pretty good. I was certain QML was the right tool Then when I started the project I realized that it wasn't going to be as nice as I would like. Techinical things always look awesome on presentations. But when you get your hands dirty you realise that presentations only look nice becouse the things done are simple and standard. Sudenly you can't find out how to do the simplest of things. And it sucks. But there is also the other problem. And for me the other problem is worst then the first. The other problem is art. Although I might have a little bit of talent, I don't have pacience for it. I also don't know how to use the art tools like drawing program becouse I've never bothered to learn. So while trying to make some graphics for the game I got really frustraded. And thats when I stoped working on the project.

A few months have gone by and I started to slowly do a few things. I gave up on doing some of the art I wanted and instead searched the internet for some assets I could use right away. Then I started to do some things with QML as a test. At first I got stuck trying to do some basic things, but instead of giving up, this time I searched around and found a way to do whatever I was having trouble with. I'm still a few days of work away from posting a demo. My next demo will be very simple, but much more insteresting then the first one I posted. I've got some graphics now. It doesn't look good, but at least it looks like a game. I still had to do some things in paint programs but only simple stuff. So I've attached a print screem of what I'm working on.

I'm not looking for sugestions on the game at the moment. I've got my hands full with what I'm working on at the moment. However I've made this post for a few reasons. First I needed to rename my game. Necto had contacted me though pm a few days after I started this thread. He told me that he was working on a new game and that he would use WMIII as the name and let me keep the WMII name. But releasing a version 2 of a game just to have a version 3 be released at a similar time doesn't make any sense. So it was decided that he would use the WMII name and I was to rename my project. But then I stoped working on it and things got a bit messy. So now I've chosen a new name. It should be refenced as WMX instead of WMC since the x version looks better .
The second reason was just to tell you guys that the project is still active. So for those that posted here, know that your post will not be in vain.
The last reason is that I'm looking for an artist. If anyone here has some skill in design or drawings they would be welcome. I prefer that the tools used should be free stuff. The reason is that if someone else wants to contribute they can easily pick up the tools and get started.
I use Inkscape for vector art, and Paint.net for images. One could also use Gimp, buts its too complicated for me. In any case post here if you think you can help with the art. If you do I will then tell you what I need and give you feedback on your work. I won't necessarily use anything you make. But if you have some skill and/or are a hard worker I'm sure we can use your work in the project.

One last thing feel free to ask me about the screen I posted. And if anyone wants the sourcecode I can post it in the dev thread, but at the moment all I've got is a few hundred lines of code that don't really do anything usefull. But it could be interesting if you want to take a look at some QML code.

[Xela]

 Great thing to know more people are working on designing similar games!
 Good luck and keep us updated on the project.

 On the similar note, our programmer put together costumer code and fixed some bugs, I am not going to translate the current version as there are still no real playability in the game but at this point we are not far off a version with some simple functionality

[graodeareia]

EDIT: Added a higher res image of the new artwork and corrected some typos

Hey guys,

I'm making this post for 2 reasons, to show some new art work and to talk a little about how QML will be great for modders.

The first attached image shows the new stuff I made. The frame around the caracter as well as the health and energy bars. Took me a really long time to make them since I made them from scratch, using Inkscape. This is the first complex piece of art I made, since the rest is picked up from the internet and then altered for my use cases. Anyways I think it looks pretty good for a programmer. What do you guys think? Of course a designer would do better but since there isn't one I will keep on trying to do my best. The biggest problem is time. I didn't track the time, but I'm sure it was more than 10 hours. I spent have of the time struggling with Inkscape, one forth the time actually creating the stuff and the rest ajusting.

Now lets talk a little about QML. First I'd like to tell you guys about how simple it looks for modders to work with. All the files are plains text files. There is no compilation involved in the QML side of things. Of course there is still the core of the game, that will be made in C++. But I found out, and experimented with, making C++ classes available to QML. I created a simple Girl class in C++ and then created a sample girl in QML using the C++ class. This is what the QML code looks like for creating an instance of the girl class:

Code: [Select]

import QtQuick 1.1 import WMXGirls 1.0 WMXGirl {
girlClass: WMXGirl.E
girlType: WMXGirl.Warrior
name: "Amanda"
desc: "Description of Amanda"
age: 18
}
The "import WMXGirls" command is all that is needed to make the C++ code available to QML.  After that code is created in QML I can import the class instance to C++ and do whatever I want with it there as if I had done everything in C++. So maybe you are wondering what this has to do with modding. Well there are many important things to notice:

• There will not need to be xml files for defining girl packs. It can be done directly in QML
• The above code is cleaner than what an equivalent xml file would look like.
• If you do your code editing in Qt Creator (instead of doing it in a plain text editor) you get free error checking, syntax highlight and code completion.
• There is no need to recompile the C++ code in order for the changes to take place.
• This aproach can be used for many scenarios other then girl packs. For instance, a modders could easily create new traits, items, quest and much more. All without ever knowing what C++ looks like.
• QML supports javascript. So if you need you cold also add logic directly in your QML file. One scenario where this would be great is for defining events right in the girl pack. For example lets say you create a new girl pack. You want to player to be able to aquire the girl only when he visits a certain part of the town, at a certain stage of the game, and only if he says the right things to the girl. Things like that will be possible and it will not require that the developers make changes to the game engine. It will be completely in the hands of the package creator.

Now that sounds great but what about making changes to the game interface? How will QML make that easier. Well to show this I will talk a little about those health bars you see in the attached image. Those are not static images, they are in fact QML components. And they are pretty smart. For example I use the same component to make both the health and the energy bar. Take a look at this code:

Code: [Select]

WMXBar {
id: healthBar
anchors.left: attributes.right
anchors.top: parent.top
anchors.leftMargin: 10
height: 416
imageHigh: "../images/health-high.png"
imageLow: "../images/health-low.png"
value: 40
maximum: 40
}
Thats all the code that was I needed to write to define the health bar. The "anchors" you see are used to position the bar. Then I define the height, provide the image files fill the the health bar a maximum health value and the current health value. The component will then fill the bar with the image acording to the ratio between the current value and the maximum value. It will also display those values. If the bar is bellow 30% it will use the low health image instead (provided the the "imageLow" variable). So what if a modder wanted to resize the health or energy bar or even add a new bar to represent some other value? Well see for yourself. I will change 2 lines and you can see the result in the second attached image. The changes applied where "value: 10" and "height: 200".
As you see the health bar got red (the "imageLow" was used to fill the bar), thats becouse 10 is less then 30% of 40, also the health bar resized seamlessly to the new height. Looking at that you might thing I had to write some serious C++ code to creature that health bar component. But instead I only had to write about 80 lines of pure QML code. It didn't even require a single javascript funtion. So as you can see modders will be able to do some pretty advanced UI code without even touching the dreaded C++.

Right now its still early for me to release a new demo but I will keep you guys updated on my progress. Hope this post picked the interest of some of you. If you have some questions fell free to ask. And of course I welcome some feedback on the new screenshots.

[Xela]

Looks interesting... didn't expect modding could be so simple knowing that you're coding a game in C++.

Waiting for new updates!

[graodeareia]

Hey people,

So first I quickly talk about a attributes update that I've made. The Discipline attribute was used to determine how fast a girl get experience in a job and how well that job is executed. I then realised that if such a skill existed girls that had low Discipline would be crap since they would be slow to learn and would also have a penalty in any job they were assigned to. So I couldn't really see how that would add to the game or make it fun. So I'm dropping that all together. Then comes Strength. Contrary to Discipline that was required for everything Strength is only required for Exploring Catacombs and Security. Maybe Torture and Cleaning. But in general it was the most underused attribute in the system. So I decided to drop that as well. The Constitution attribute, which is related to health and resistence will now also be used as Strength. I think maybe Constitution will be renamed as Vitality, the only reason being that Constitution is a very long word. Also there is a change to Charisma. Initially it was a Secondary attribute calculated using Beauty and Wisdom. But I realised that Beauty and Wisdom are not really related to Charisma. You can have a girl thats inteligent and beaultiful, yet is a selfish bitch. So now Charisma is a primary Attribute and there are no secundary attributes anymore. The new list of attributes are:

Vitality - Its the physical constitution of one's body. It determines the amount of Health and Energy a character has as well as how strong the character is. In adition it indicates a character's resistence to disease, poison and damage. Vitality is also used to determine the rate at which Health and Energy regenerate.

Agility - Ability to move quickly and easily. Its used in many things from combat to stripping to sex and basic anything that involves manual work, balance or swiftness.

Wisdom - Is a characters mental acuity, knowledge, and is used for all intelect related tasks. Some related jobs are Game Dealer, Advertisement, Matron just to name a few. Its also used to calculate Energy and Energy regeneration, since one can get tired in the mind as well as in the body. Wisdom was also used to cast spells but I might drop support for spells, see bellow.

Beauty - Is a characters physical attractiveness. It include everything from face to body to hair and skin. Its importance is obvious in WM.

Charisma - Defines how charming and elegant a character is. Also how well the character relates to other person, their ability to talk and convince others. Is important for every job the has direct interaction with customers and also some performance jobs (like singing).

Thats all. The system is simple enough, but not too simple. Maybe I could make Charisma and Beauty into one attribute. But then you wouldn't be able to have a pretty girl thats a bitch. And those types of girls could provide some fun since you would have to find a way to make the pretty bitch become more friendly. Now as you see Wisdom seams to be the least important attribute in the game. And I might even remove it or create more jobs that require Wisdom. Some jobs could be Manager (makes things run smother, that is, raises the customers satisfaction and make the other workers more eficient), Accountant (help avoid taxes), Nurses (heals the other girls) and probabily many more. Wisdom can also be prerequisite to use some items. For instance in order to equip a certain Codex the girl might have to have to have a certain minimal Wisdom in order to understand the book.

Now I like to ask some feedback on Spells. In the original idea there would be lots of characters that could do magic. You would then equip scrolls to teach diferent spell for the characters. It took me quite a while but I finaly realised that magic doesnt have a much of a row in the game. After all, a Wizard character is just another type of combat related character. From the point of view of the player Wizards and Warriors would do the exact same thing, be used for Catacomb exploration or Security. So it doesn't add much in terms of gameplay. All it does it require a diferent set of items (since Wizards and Warriors would be equiped diferently) but in the end the benefits are the same. Also it adds to the complexity of the Battle AI. And if the player had to choose one of the 2 characters for a combat job, it would be difficult to tell if the Wizard was more or less combat capable then the Warrior. So it could bring confusion. The only real reason to keep magic in the game would be for non-combat spells. For instance a spell could be used to make a girl more attractive. Once you aquire a scroll for that spell (from a store or exploration) you could equip it to a character and the character would use those spells before they would do a job that benefited from it. Basically it would be like adding a makeup or perfume that could be used indefinetly only requirering energy (to cast the spell). The problem with this is Energy. If the AI isnt top notch a character could use up all the Energy it has casting spells and sudenly be too tired for work. Becouse when the Energy runs out a character might refuse to work (just like tirredness in the original WM). So what do you guys think? Should I keep the spell system with all its potencial problems and questionable benefit? Should I rework it, and if so, what changes do I need to make to make it more fun and relevant? Or should I just drop it like I intend to?

As always I'll be glad to hear any feedback on the current attribute system.

[Xela]

Now I like to ask some feedback on Spells. In the original idea there would be lots of characters that could do magic. You would then equip scrolls to teach diferent spell for the characters. It took me quite a while but I finaly realised that magic doesnt have a much of a row in the game. After all, a Wizard character is just another type of combat related character. From the point of view of the player Wizards and Warriors would do the exact same thing, be used for Catacomb exploration or Security. So it doesn't add much in terms of gameplay. All it does it require a diferent set of items (since Wizards and Warriors would be equiped diferently) but in the end the benefits are the same. Also it adds to the complexity of the Battle AI. And if the player had to choose one of the 2 characters for a combat job, it would be difficult to tell if the Wizard was more or less combat capable then the Warrior. So it could bring confusion. The only real reason to keep magic in the game would be for non-combat spells. For instance a spell could be used to make a girl more attractive. Once you aquire a scroll for that spell (from a store or exploration) you could equip it to a character and the character would use those spells before they would do a job that benefited from it. Basically it would be like adding a makeup or perfume that could be used indefinetly only requirering energy (to cast the spell). The problem with this is Energy. If the AI isnt top notch a character could use up all the Energy it has casting spells and sudenly be too tired for work. Becouse when the Energy runs out a character might refuse to work (just like tirredness in the original WM). So what do you guys think? Should I keep the spell system with all its potencial problems and questionable benefit? Should I rework it, and if so, what changes do I need to make to make it more fun and relevant? Or should I just drop it like I intend to?

As always I'll be glad to hear any feedback on the current attribute system.

 It's to late to write a proper reply, I'll do that when I wake up but can you be a bit more specific on what the endplan is for the game? What will gameflow will be like, are you planning to introduce new functions like NPC or Final Fantasy type battles as an addition to autocalc battles? It's difficult to give feedback on magic if you don't know what the game will look like in the end and where else it may be useful. 
 In any case, first idea to spring into my mind was placing magic on different stat than Energy (Line Mana (or MP) in normal WM). Then you can add items that only decent magicians could wear (simple 'if' check in the code) and those items would drain MP every turn in return of increasing other stats. That way you can simply write a code so a magic girl would use MP restorative items when low on Magic Points and there will be no need for overcomplicated AI.

[graodeareia]

What will gameflow will be like, are you planning to introduce new functions like NPC or Final Fantasy type battles as an addition to autocalc battles?

One of the reasons the combat system doesnt have a demo yet is becouse I'm still deciding things like this. Having or not having magic in combat will drastically change the battle AI code. But one thing I can tell you for sure is that the combat will always be auto-resolved. The only thing I might provide if people find interesting is the option to see what happened in the battle after the fact. The battle events will be displayed in text in some form like:

Turn 1: X attacked, but Y defended
Turn 2: Y attacked and caused 5 damage
...
Turn 10: X attached, critical hit! X wins!

I can provide such a description becouse thats how the battle will be, turn by turn. But both combatents will be controled by the AI. The player will not see or participate in the combat. In the summery you see after the week is over, something very similar to what you have today in WM, you can see that combats happened. There could be a button after each combat report where you could see the combat details. Regardless if this button is there or not, for the player, combat will be like it is today even if internaly things are very diferent. So in the end sending a Wizardor or a Warrior  to the Catacombs will be the same for the player. The only diference for the player is that if he just got a new spell scroll for his wizard character he could potentially look in the combat details and see how his wizard used the new spell, how much damage it did, how many turn it took for his Wizard to win or lose the fight. But i'm guessing that most players will never want to see the combat details, as it can be very time consuming and very little information can be gained from it. Of course if your characters are constantily losing battles you might want to look at the details to see how much damage your characters are taking and causing to help you properly equip your character before you send them to the Catacombs again.

  In any case, first idea to spring into my mind was placing magic on different stat than Energy (Line Mana (or MP) in normal WM).
 

Originaly the game would have Mana for magic and Stamina for tirredness. That was later simplified in a unified number called Energy. People thought the game was becoming too combat oriented and over complicated. You can read about the change somewhere in this thread.

Then you can add items that only decent magicians could wear (simple 'if' check in the code) and those items would drain MP every turn in return of increasing other stats.
 

I don't wanna sound cocky but I'm a pretty good programmer. I would never consider complicated anything that required a simple "if". But I can garantee that adding magic the the battle AI will require much more than that. For instance if there are many available spells what to choose from? The one that cause more damage or the one that gives a bonus to your stats or the one the gives a penalty to your oponent stats? How about managing the MP consunption so that the MP doesnt run out before the battle is over? I can certainly program a resonable AI for battle with both magic and weapons but adding magic will make things at least 2-3 times more complex. But in the end its not about complexity. If I had had no feedback the game would be much more complex then the current design sugests. Its about adding value. Does magic add any value? Does it make the game more fun or chalenging? Those are the things I want to answer before I decide to keep magic. In practice if players use Wizards as just another type of Warrior, than its not worth the efford to add, not only that but having two diferent things that do the same thing make the game confusing and unintuitive for the players.

It's to late to write a proper reply, I'll do that when I wake up but can you be a bit more specific on what the endplan is for the game?
 

I will wait for your reply I hope I've cleared some of your doubts so that you can give a more informed opnion. Anyways, thanks for the replies. Ever since I came back here your are the only one that has given me any feedback.

[Xela]

Ever since I came back here your are the only one that has given me any feedback.

Well, I think that the main reason for that is this:

------------------------------------------------------

Finished Sim Indie games:

SlaveMaker
SlaveMaker 2
Sim Brothel
Hentai Highschool (3 versions I think)

Games with working version that still develop new content and/or updates:

WM (Patches and new Content)
OtherWorld
SlaveMaker 3
MisBro
SimBro 1x
SImBrothel: Revival

Games that are being developed:

WM 2: Official
WM: Cathexis
Legends of Alkion (Also unofficial WM2 originally)
PytherWorld


 I prolly missed some as well And those are indies, one team is developing a similar game that they are planning to sell commercially that is by their promises supposed to be pretty good...
------------------------------------------------------

 So there is a bit of fatigue... I like to get involved and see how projects develop and how different people approach game building + I kinda like Pink Petal Forums


 As for magic, from the sound of it, it is best left out as you suggest since there will be no user controlled battles and managing spells and mana will simply add an unwanted micromanagement issue. Magic is kind of useless in WM and only gets in the way, it would have been better I think but WM was never properly finished. The only real counter argument for cutting magic out of the game I can think of is that many characters from games and anime (that an indie sims like WM are based around) have magic in one form and another... Maybe a trait: Magical or Strong Magic that increases other stats could substitute absence of magic itself.

People thought the game was becoming too combat oriented and over complicated. You can read about the change somewhere in this thread.

 This is actually awesome (as it creates variety). It is a completely different approach if compared to Alkion. I think that the opposite is true, I am a member of most of the indie development communities and what I see everywhere tells a different story. Many stats adds flavor to girls and differentiates them from each other. Combat orientation is also welcome in most games, you see people asking Daisy (OtherWorld Developer) when combat will be back and I don't think I've ever seem someone asking for combat removal. About the same is true for SM3.

 In any case, it is impossible to make a game everyone will be happy with. My biggest issue with you design is an apparent lack of classes updates. I prefer to pick a couple of characters in every game and max them out, giving them best items, best care, best jobs and so on. Also lots of interactions. If you cannot advance a girl from lower classes to class S, my way of play is close to impossible to do but like I've said, making a game everyone will like is close to impossible as well.

 

As always I'll be glad to hear any feedback on the current attribute system.

 You're oversimplifying attributes but that is not a bad thing. In my mind first rule should be that a game is not illogical and not counter-intuitive. Your design is both logical and makes sense so there is little I can add.
 

[graodeareia]

You're oversimplifying attributes but that is not a bad thing. In my mind first rule should be that a game is not illogical and not counter-intuitive. Your design is both logical and makes sense so there is little I can add.

Initially the Attributes were much more complete. The reason for that was not really realated to WMX. I wanted to reuse the system to make another game in the future. That other game would be combat oriented. As I got feedback I decided that I should really focus the Attributes on WMX and in the future, if I decide to make the other game, I will just have to reimagine the whole Attributes thing. WMX is a logical sequel to WM, that is, its focused on management. So adding to the Attributes just creates more micromanagement. The most important reason for simple management is that I want time to go by really fast. I want one game play session to spam decades. Since each turn only takes a week a player will have to play hundreds of turns before he completes the game. So a few turns, like when you open a new Brothel or expand your current Brothel might take a while. But most turns should pass by really fast.

My biggest issue with you design is an apparent lack of classes updates.

There is not techinical issue with adding class upgrades. It would be quite simple indeed. Just wait until a character level up to max then promote the character to a new class. The only problem with that I that I kinda wanted to force player to find ways to get the higher class girls. The players should have to work for that. If I allow class upgrades a player might just buy a few girls of the slave market and sit back and relax until his girls level up to S class. But maybe thats a good thing, it allows player to take another approach to the game, that is, they will have more freedom to play as they want intead of being forced into a certain path. What do you think?
Another approach could be middle ground approach. There could be a special rare potion or some other special item that allows a maxed out girl to change classes. That would allow the player to upgrade a few select girls but since the item is rare, he would still have to find ways to get more higher class girls.

The only real counter argument for cutting magic out of the game I can think of is that many characters from games and anime (that an indie sims like WM are based around) have magic in one form and another... Maybe a trait: Magical or Strong Magic that increases other stats could substitute absence of magic itself.

I'll try to find a way to make magical character special somehow. Maybe have items that only them can wear. Or something else. I any case, since you are the only one I can bounce ideas of, and you agree with the removel, than combat magic is gone. But as I said I will make magical character diferent from non-magical ones in a way thats adds fun to the game. Maybe I could still have spells, just none that are combat oriented.

[Xela]

Initially the Attributes were much more complete. The reason for that was not really realated to WMX. I wanted to reuse the system to make another game in the future. That other game would be combat oriented. As I got feedback I decided that I should really focus the Attributes on WMX and in the future, if I decide to make the other game, I will just have to reimagine the whole Attributes thing. WMX is a logical sequel to WM, that is, its focused on management. So adding to the Attributes just creates more micromanagement. The most important reason for simple management is that I want time to go by really fast. I want one game play session to spam decades. Since each turn only takes a week a player will have to play hundreds of turns before he completes the game. So a few turns, like when you open a new Brothel or expand your current Brothel might take a while. But most turns should pass by really fast.

 What value do you see in a game where you just get to click 'Next Turn' button? One of the most serious problems with WM is not a wide variety of stats, traits and other attributes... it is the lack of content such as NPC, Events, Some form of a storyline and so on. I am not entirely sure who would want a fast game and why...? WM can be fast as hell, just get a good girls setup, a matron and some decent gangs and click 'Next Turn' 10 000 times, you'll have no serious issues and your money will be at around 50 000 000 or possibly even more... What is the point in that I am not certain? How many people think that game speed outweighs depth of girl's character, stats, traits, flavor and so on. You can code in interesting projects for multiple girls to work on or dialogues and ability to give gifts, do events/quests for girls you meet in the city to get enough disposition so they would befriend you or agree to work for you and so on. That is 'good' kind of micromanagement, not repetitive and very interesting... also time consuming but not in a bad way.

There is not techinical issue with adding class upgrades. It would be quite simple indeed. Just wait until a character level up to max then promote the character to a new class. The only problem with that I that I kinda wanted to force player to find ways to get the higher class girls. The players should have to work for that. If I allow class upgrades a player might just buy a few girls of the slave market and sit back and relax until his girls level up to S class. But maybe thats a good thing, it allows player to take another approach to the game, that is, they will have more freedom to play as they want intead of being forced into a certain path. What do you think?
Another approach could be middle ground approach. There could be a special rare potion or some other special item that allows a maxed out girl to change classes. That would allow the player to upgrade a few select girls but since the item is rare, he would still have to find ways to get more higher class girls.

 I think a variation of another approach is best. Drop classes, they don't sound human or fun. Instead use some form or variation of:

1) Beggar
2) Nomad
3) Peasant
4) Foreign Citizen
5) Citizen
6) Nobel
7) Almost Royalty

or something along these lines. Basically what defines a girl in this manner is a piece of paperwork issued by some local authority (NPC). Higher classes paperwork costs sh!tloadz of money. This way player would still look for better girls and have an option to assent any girl he is fond of up the social ladder. Also would eliminate classes, good thing as Class E or Class S do not do well in a game like WM, to impersonal and plain.

I'll try to find a way to make magical character special somehow. Maybe have items that only them can wear. Or something else. I any case, since you are the only one I can bounce ideas of, and you agree with the removel, than combat magic is gone. But as I said I will make magical character diferent from non-magical ones in a way thats adds fun to the game. Maybe I could still have spells, just none that are combat oriented.

 Well, this is a good thing and will differ the game from other games as well. Maybe traits as I suggested earlier:

 1) Battle Mage (Battle Stat increace)
 2) Witch (Charisma, Beauty increase)
 3) Miko (Magic healing, Increase to Nurse or similar trait)

and so on. If you are not adding userguided combat to the first game, magic is pointless stat that will get in the way more than help, especially if game is created under your concept of minimizing amount of attributes, a concept that can turn into a very good game in the end.

[graodeareia]

What value do you see in a game where you just get to click 'Next Turn' button? One of the most serious problems with WM is not a wide variety of stats, traits and other attributes... it is the lack of content such as NPC, Events, Some form of a storyline and so on. I am not entirely sure who would want a fast game and why...? WM can be fast as hell, just get a good girls setup, a matron and some decent gangs and click 'Next Turn' 10 000 times, you'll have no serious issues and your money will be at around 50 000 000 or possibly even more... What is the point in that I am not certain? How many people think that game speed outweighs depth of girl's character, stats, traits, flavor and so on. You can code in interesting projects for multiple girls to work on or dialogues and ability to give gifts, do events/quests for girls you meet in the city to get enough disposition so they would befriend you or agree to work for you and so on. That is 'good' kind of micromanagement, not repetitive and very interesting... also time consuming but not in a bad way.

I completely agree with your statement. Any game that allows you to just click "Next Turn" over and over sucks. Well there are many things that prevent that from happening. Specially the gang wars. In this game the city will be divided into sectors. Rival leaders will control some sectors and other sectors will be neutral. As the game progresses some leaders will die and other will grow their control of the city. If you just sit back, sudenly your oponents control so much territory that you get overrun and lose the game. Yes in this game you can actually lose to rivel gangs if you aren't actively managing your gangs.
There is also the cap provided by classes. If the player is not getting more girls, training them and expanding his bussiness, he will always have low class girls. Low class girls only attract low class customer and so you will never make any real money. Basic if the player wants to progress he has to make more money and that requires better girls, so the player has to actively manage his bussiness. In sumary do nothing and you lose.
On the other hand doing meaningfull things to manage your bussiness should be quick. That is, the player should be able to get what he wants done with the minimal amount of clicks possible. If the player can quickly set things up on turns where he is only doing basic things, that means time will progress fast. On some turns players will the player might have to do some heavy lifting and so that might take a while, but one most turns the player will just visit the market, look at the reports, equip and put the new girls to work and pass the turn. Those tasks should be easy and quick to do.
Well thats the goal. When we have a playable game it could require a lots of tunning and refining before that can be achieved.

I think a variation of another approach is best. Drop classes, they don't sound human or fun. Instead use some form or variation of:

1) Beggar
2) Nomad
3) Peasant
4) Foreign Citizen
5) Citizen
6) Nobel
7) Almost Royalty

or something along these lines. Basically what defines a girl in this manner is a piece of paperwork issued by some local authority (NPC). Higher classes paperwork costs sh!tloadz of money. This way player would still look for better girls and have an option to assent any girl he is fond of up the social ladder. Also would eliminate classes, good thing as Class E or Class S do not do well in a game like WM, to impersonal and plain.

I like to only add a feature if it brings real game play options. Girl classes serve a very specific purpose in game play. Its not meant to limit a girl's power. It's linked to the customers that will visit your bussiness. The more wealthy the customer's want the better girls. What does that mean for the player? He has to find a way to aquire better girls if he wants the richer customers. Thats one of the chalenges of the game. It doesnt have anything to with Class this or Class that. It has to do with Attributes. Rich customer want beautifull girls serving them. So they don't care what Class the girl has they care that the Beauty Attribute is high or that other attributes are high, depending on the service he needs. If I give a girl a Noble title so something like that, she will still be as ugly or as beautifull as she was before the Tittle. So the customers will like her as much as they did before she had the Tittle. Now if I get a Beggar girl with really nice Attributes and nice clothes, rich custormer will want her even if she was a beggar. In summery girl Classes serve to limit the power of the inicial girls. As the player progresses he can get more powerfull girls, that is, girls of higher classes. Classes are just one of the ways that will allow for the player to progress in the game (by having more higher class girls), but not the only way. Conquering territory, building new stablishments, upgrading his current stablishments are some of the other ways a player can progress. In the end the players focus in this game should be his bussiness as a whole and not individual girls. Sure if the players want a few features that allow them of favor some of his favorite girls thats fine, I will put that in the game if needed. But the main goal is to be more like a tycoon game, and so individual girls a just one of the many assets the player has. In the end of the game the player should have an empire where individuals girls are just a drop of water in the sea.

Well, this is a good thing and will differ the game from other games as well. Maybe traits as I suggested earlier:

I'm not really worried about individual traits. Traits will be external to the game. By that I mean that modders will be able to create Traits in QML using a plain text editor. So simple Traits like that can be added to the game with a few lines of code, without having to recompile the game. So if the comunity feels like changing, removing or adding a Trait they can easily do it in a couple of minutes. Only complex traits will require that the engine expose a feature to modders so that they can then add traits that use that feature. As the comunity requests this features I will add them.

[graodeareia]

Hello people,

Today I had a great idea. Recently I decided To drop combat magic from the game, becouse it would have the same efect as regular combat and since combats will auto-resolve just like in WM, magic would only add to confusion on the part of the player and complications on the programming side of the thing. But WM has a lots of characters that are very focused on magic. So I had to find a way to make magical characters important even if magic is not used in combat. In adition there is no mana in this game, so using energy for casting spell could make the character exausted, so I had to find a way to make magical characters interesting without involving spell casting. Xela sugested the adition of Traits specifically for magical characters. Well while those Traits could be a good adition for the game it was not enough to make magic relavant in the game. Another problem is with the Wisdom Attribute. Its not really used enough in the game so I needed to find a way to make that more important.

So my ideia is this. In the game it will be possible to expand you brothel and also upgrade diferent sections of it. I decided to add one new section that can solve a lot of problem. The player will be able to build and Alchemy lab. Only character with Magic or Strong Magic trait will be able to work there. This build will initially enable on new job after the player builds it, the Alchemist job. Puting girls to work on that job will allow the player to produce some potions. Acording to the girl Wisdom, more potions will be produced per turn. Initially a player will only be able to produce basic potions. But as the player buys or finds new recipies other potions will be available for production. At a later point in the game the player can upgrade the Alchemist lab. At that point a new job will be unlocked. Only characters with Strong Magic trait will be able to work in this job. The new job will be Enchanter. The player can select an equipment (like a sword or an armor) to be enchanted. After a while if the enchanment succced the item will have permanent bonuses provided by the enchantment.

So of course when I actually implement the Alchemist lab many details will have to be sorted out. I. But what do you guys think of this Idea?

Edit: I'm currenly working on a Trait system so that modders will be able to define Traits outside of the C++ code. I'm also working on the code that generate Girls based on the girls files (that will be part of the girls packages). Once this is done I will work on connecting Sqlite to the code so that game can be saved to the database. That will be an important feature. For instance from the data in the database the it will be possible to generate graphs the show the players progression in many aspects like Income, Taxes, Profit and many other stats. When I get the basic database code done I will post an update showing a new screenshot and talking about the next step.

[zuhydruh]

Well the addition of the alchemist lab and enchanting sounds like a good work around to me in solving the magic issue.


i don't really have much to add on to it since it seems my ideas run pretty close to Xela's ideas or at least they have in the past few posts.

[Xela]

 Right... but that is exactly why I asked if you were planning other elements in the game that would make use of magic. If there is an enchantment altar and alchemy lab, absence of magic as a stat itself would be counter-intuitive. I suppose that anything more than traits to describe girls and give a slight boost to their stats is an overkill if you want to drop magic as a stat.

 You yourself admit that you are trying to give magical flavor to many girls that use some form of magic in games/anime but you will in no way or form achieve that with Alchemy and Enchantment. The idea is to connect a girl in players mind from inside of your game to a familiar character from Anime, that is one (One of many, but very relevant I think) of the reasons why WM and similar games using well known characters get so many people interested and involved. I cannot picture many of those characters working in a lab or brewery.

Most Anime/Games break characters in:

- Magical Fighting Class
- Magical Healing Class
- Dark/Light Magician Class

Top two are self-explanetory while bottom one uses some form of magic to help/hurt people in other ways than bodily harm. In any case, I cannot see most of those characters in a workshop. So since you are asking for thoughts... I think that simple traits that effect stats will serve by themselves better if you are dropping magic and Alchemy/Item Augmentation should ONLY become a part of the game if you are making magic true part of the game!