devolution

Author Topic: Game Design/Ideas  (Read 122835 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline DarkTl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4737
Re: -PyTFall- Dev Thread: Game Design/Ideas
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2013, 04:26:15 PM »
That's an interesting conception. In order to not damage the balance by such slaves we could use an expensive special training or restriction on the number of monster girls (since they are monsters in a human city), or even both.
Anyway, when all code for them will be 100% ready, I am care enough to make a couple of packs for random girls  :D

Offline Xela

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6893
  • "It's like hunting cows"
Re: -PyTFall- Dev Thread: Game Design/Ideas
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2013, 04:30:22 PM »
That's an interesting conception. In order to not damage the balance by such slaves we could use an expensive special training or restriction on the number of monster girls (since they are monsters in a human city), or even both.
Anyway, when all code for them will be 100% ready, I am care enough to make a couple of packs for random girls  :D

Oki, items first :)
Like what we're doing?

Offline Ncog

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1
Re: -PyTFall- Dev Thread: Game Design/Ideas
« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2013, 12:24:46 PM »
I seem to remember in WM, the player could impregnate girls and have children with them.  Will this version have something similar?  Could you say have adult children who could run certain aspects of the business sort of like how matrons worked in WM.  Where they could take girls who are exhausted off duty and put girls to work who aren't doing anything.

Offline Xela

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6893
  • "It's like hunting cows"
Re: -PyTFall- Dev Thread: Game Design/Ideas
« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2013, 03:02:11 PM »
I seem to remember in WM, the player could impregnate girls and have children with them.  Will this version have something similar?  Could you say have adult children who could run certain aspects of the business sort of like how matrons worked in WM.  Where they could take girls who are exhausted off duty and put girls to work who aren't doing anything.

Nothing of this sort has been designed yet. Preferred approach would be to make assistants out of girls that your trust most and have them run the show. First, I want all girls to go off duty and back to work automatically, regardless if there is a matron or not. Girls may try to SKIP work and slack off, if noone is running the brothel, untrained slaves may refuse it in the future but not free girls (if work matches their occupation). We can later introduce a system where girls choose not to work because they're sad or something has happened in their family for example.

Pregnancy with children born would require some form of stupid tale like a brothel owner growing children in tubes like in OW or something. Otherwise we can allow girls to get pregnant and give birth and allow children to grow up at normal pace so we don't have to deal with any of it (game is not likely to take so many turns) but pregnancy is still there.

In any case, amount of text and content, code and design needed to make children actually interesting bit of the game is to large to be worthwhile and I don't like shortcut in WM where kids are autosold in slavery or turned into random girls.

After we're done with Items, Girlsmeets, Player, Iterations, Economy, Locations, Girlspacks, Jobs, Events, Girls/Player relations and some Quests. We can raise issues on what to add next.
Like what we're doing?

Offline fires_flair

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 411
Re: -PyTFall- Dev Thread: Game Design/Ideas
« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2013, 11:54:08 PM »
one way would be (if this is an male protagonist only game) would be to have only specific girls designated as such and appear at random when you do certain actions. While you wouldn't physically be able to impregnate a girl, you would be able to have your own daughters run your business.

Offline Xela

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6893
  • "It's like hunting cows"
Re: -PyTFall- Dev Thread: Game Design/Ideas
« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2013, 03:25:10 AM »
one way would be (if this is an male protagonist only game) would be to have only specific girls designated as such and appear at random when you do certain actions. While you wouldn't physically be able to impregnate a girl, you would be able to have your own daughters run your business.

Yeap, that's another way to explore having family in the game, simply start with a couple of relatives.
Like what we're doing?

Offline DarkTl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4737
Re: -PyTFall- Dev Thread: Game Design/Ideas
« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2013, 01:26:50 PM »
Talking about Kamidori reminds me how skills handled there. The game has tons of them, but every character can equip up to 4 skills s/he knows, plus one possible skill from current weapon and two from accessories. Maybe we could use a similar system eventually.

Offline Xela

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6893
  • "It's like hunting cows"
Re: -PyTFall- Dev Thread: Game Design/Ideas
« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2013, 01:43:33 PM »
Talking about Kamidori reminds me how skills handled there. The game has tons of them, but every character can equip up to 4 skills s/he knows, plus one possible skill from current weapon and two from accessories. Maybe we could use a similar system eventually.

We could... sounds interesting actually.
Like what we're doing?

Offline Ctwo

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 59
Re: -PyTFall- Dev Thread: Game Design/Ideas
« Reply #23 on: May 07, 2013, 07:09:17 PM »
Just thinking, instead of purchasing a brothel make all buildings in the game non-specific. Instead list the number of large rooms, small rooms and any special traits this location has. Buildings may be offered for rent, purchase or both. Rent should be about 2-4% of the purchase price to make renting viable. In either case there should be a maintenance charge associated with the use of the building which includes repairs.
Before traits are created you would need to work on the idea of a business. What I am imagining is that a business is an entity that is created on a building site and could move if you have an empty building (or switch with another business you own). Each business would have a name, and stats. There would be a list of employees which is limited by the building it is located in. A certain number of rooms would need to be remodeled to match the business. For instance every brothel needs a parlor and bedrooms. Every armory needs forges, smelters and at least two store rooms. There should be a list of necessary and optional rooms for each business which would list the size requirements of the room, the cost to remodel the room, and what benefit gets applied. Among the benefits should be listed how many employees you can add. The business would get stats based on a percentage of the employees stats (something between 1-10% of each employee). For instance a brothel might have charisma, reputation, and various sex acts as stats. The number of customers would be affected by the reputation of the business. Each individual girl would check to see how they perform, but could receive a bonus (or penalty) from the stats of the brothel. Say something along the lines of the brothel's matching stat minus the customer's expectations. So the higher class of customer the harder to meet their base expectations (with matching increased payment) but the larger bonus for a well established business. The percentage of how much each employee contributes could be a sliding scale, starting at 1% and going up each week they work there till the reach the max of 10%.
Every business should have reputation, but other stats would be based on the business. For instance our armory could have stats like reputation, con, strength and smithing. The number and quality of customers is based on reputation (plus smithing for quality). Each job would require an individual girl to make checks on con and strength to make sure the work gets done on time and isn't accidentally ruined (should be an easy check with the shop adding a significant bonus. Maybe x2 or x3 the flat stat?). Then check against smithing to determine the quality of work and final payment. Say smithing + shop bonus - customer expectation level. Test gives a sliding scale of payment starting with no pay (fail by over 20?), half pay (fail by less than 20), normal pay (success), 20% bonus pay (success by over 40), to 50% bonus pay (success by over 80). Again as the quality of customer goes up the base pay increases, but so does the expectation level. Someone ordering clubs isn't expecting high quality work but even with a masterpiece they aren't paying a whole lot. Someone ordering a full set of maximillian plate armor is going to expect master level work and is going to pay a small fortune for the best.
After determining what rooms each business needs you can offer to place them in all buildings with an appropriately sized room, plus some utility rooms like kitchens which reduce the maintence cost for the girls that live in that business (eating in instead of buying meals). You'll also need to determine if employees need to live on site or if your going to establish some sort of apartment system where girls can live in one location and work in another. I would raise the maintence cost or amount of fatigue if they didn't live on site.
Traits could be things like Lavish (bonus to charisma and quality of customer), High Traffic (bonus to number of customers), Low Traffic (penalty to number of customers), Solid (difficult to damage, reduces maintence cost of business), Garden (-fatigue, bonus to certain skills), View (+reputation, extra bonuses for a few business like restraunts). Some traits could be added or improved. For instance Lavish could be added or improved at a substantial cost. Traffic on the other hand, can't be improved. That would be a reason to move the business.

Offline Xela

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6893
  • "It's like hunting cows"
Re: -PyTFall- Dev Thread: Game Design/Ideas
« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2013, 02:06:35 AM »
Just thinking, instead of purchasing a brothel make all buildings in the game non-specific. Instead list the number of large rooms, small rooms and any special traits this location has. Buildings may be offered for rent, purchase or both. Rent should be about 2-4% of the purchase price to make renting viable. In either case there should be a maintenance charge associated with the use of the building which includes repairs.
Before traits are created you would need to work on the idea of a business. What I am imagining is that a business is an entity that is created on a building site and could move if you have an empty building (or switch with another business you own). Each business would have a name, and stats. There would be a list of employees which is limited by the building it is located in. A certain number of rooms would need to be remodeled to match the business. For instance every brothel needs a parlor and bedrooms. Every armory needs forges, smelters and at least two store rooms. There should be a list of necessary and optional rooms for each business which would list the size requirements of the room, the cost to remodel the room, and what benefit gets applied. Among the benefits should be listed how many employees you can add. The business would get stats based on a percentage of the employees stats (something between 1-10% of each employee). For instance a brothel might have charisma, reputation, and various sex acts as stats. The number of customers would be affected by the reputation of the business. Each individual girl would check to see how they perform, but could receive a bonus (or penalty) from the stats of the brothel. Say something along the lines of the brothel's matching stat minus the customer's expectations. So the higher class of customer the harder to meet their base expectations (with matching increased payment) but the larger bonus for a well established business. The percentage of how much each employee contributes could be a sliding scale, starting at 1% and going up each week they work there till the reach the max of 10%.
Every business should have reputation, but other stats would be based on the business. For instance our armory could have stats like reputation, con, strength and smithing. The number and quality of customers is based on reputation (plus smithing for quality). Each job would require an individual girl to make checks on con and strength to make sure the work gets done on time and isn't accidentally ruined (should be an easy check with the shop adding a significant bonus. Maybe x2 or x3 the flat stat?). Then check against smithing to determine the quality of work and final payment. Say smithing + shop bonus - customer expectation level. Test gives a sliding scale of payment starting with no pay (fail by over 20?), half pay (fail by less than 20), normal pay (success), 20% bonus pay (success by over 40), to 50% bonus pay (success by over 80). Again as the quality of customer goes up the base pay increases, but so does the expectation level. Someone ordering clubs isn't expecting high quality work but even with a masterpiece they aren't paying a whole lot. Someone ordering a full set of maximillian plate armor is going to expect master level work and is going to pay a small fortune for the best.
After determining what rooms each business needs you can offer to place them in all buildings with an appropriately sized room, plus some utility rooms like kitchens which reduce the maintence cost for the girls that live in that business (eating in instead of buying meals). You'll also need to determine if employees need to live on site or if your going to establish some sort of apartment system where girls can live in one location and work in another. I would raise the maintence cost or amount of fatigue if they didn't live on site.
Traits could be things like Lavish (bonus to charisma and quality of customer), High Traffic (bonus to number of customers), Low Traffic (penalty to number of customers), Solid (difficult to damage, reduces maintence cost of business), Garden (-fatigue, bonus to certain skills), View (+reputation, extra bonuses for a few business like restraunts). Some traits could be added or improved. For instance Lavish could be added or improved at a substantial cost. Traffic on the other hand, can't be improved. That would be a reason to move the business.

We'll translate Alkion for you when that is done. You've pretty much described the building/room/furniture/building stats system there to the letter :)

As for PyTFall, I will not allow this project to be lead astray the same way as Alkion was. This is a hentai, not rpg and not simcity, we'll stick with all buildings in the game reflecting that. Renting and building stats are prolly an overkill as well since they add very little depth and require a bit of coding but if someone proposes a well designed concept describing it to in detail, I'll add it to the game (still believing time would be better spent on more important things like items/events/locations/quests/battlescenarios etc.).

Rooms we may add later but in a simpler way than you propose. For example, instead of guards taking rooms that can be used by working girls, you might be able to add a guardhall in the same way as you would add a bar or a garden right now, clearing rooms for workers. Or more building upgrades that can be blocked/enabled per building (not being available as they are now in every building, I am intending to make brothels a bit more unique and different from each other).

It always start with one good idea that adds something foreign like Alchemy, Smithing, Shop where you can have girls sell stuff they create/get in catacombs and etc. to the game and always ends up with core game concept being forgotten and new ideas for the new game pouring a lot faster than coders can program... lets stick to our own design until the release version is ready, we can ruin the game after decent version is done :) .


PS:
I would have skipped battle/exploration as well, but those were an important part of WM and I want to stick to that (improving it if possible in the process).

PS2:
We may have a new coder joining the project as well, I not 100% sure at this point since there have been like 15 people already that promised to help a lot in different capacities and disappeared in a week or so without completing anything at all but we'll see how it turns out.

« Last Edit: May 08, 2013, 02:20:33 AM by Xela »
Like what we're doing?

Offline DarkTl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4737
Re: -PyTFall- Dev Thread: Game Design/Ideas
« Reply #25 on: May 08, 2013, 05:24:25 AM »
Huh, the idea of traits for brothels is rather unexpected.
I see only one good way to apply it (in PytFall at least): random buildings.

So we don't have ready preset of brothels from the cheapest to the most expensive waiting for purchase from the very beginning of game (that's actually strange that noone at all except for MC buys them no matter how long you wait).
Instead game generates random buildings throughout the city, let's say, every 3 months. With random quality, traits and district.

there have been like 15 people already that promised to help a lot in different capacities and disappeared in a week or so without completing anything at all
Amusingly. That reminds me, you probably could safely delete a couple of shared folders and free some space for those who working on the project now.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2013, 06:08:28 AM by DarkTl »

Offline Xela

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6893
  • "It's like hunting cows"
Re: -PyTFall- Dev Thread: Game Design/Ideas
« Reply #26 on: May 08, 2013, 09:18:01 AM »
Huh, the idea of traits for brothels is rather unexpected.
I see only one good way to apply it (in PytFall at least): random buildings.

So we don't have ready preset of brothels from the cheapest to the most expensive waiting for purchase from the very beginning of game (that's actually strange that noone at all except for MC buys them no matter how long you wait).
Instead game generates random buildings throughout the city, let's say, every 3 months. With random quality, traits and district.

I don't know... I like the way it is now but with better interface... we'll see, we can obviously add random buildings or make it only the random buildings but the idea doesn't seem appealing to me.

As for traits, we can allow different upgrades for buildings, there are already different in some ways (Max stats of rep and fame), pictures, number of rooms, cost of upgrades and so on. Unless we can find a better reason than modifier for girl's stats, there is no point in traits. Also, I recall there being a SimBro version (Karin's I think), that allowed to set 'Specialization' on every brothel if there are a number of girls with specific trait inside, but that game had less traits than we do.

Amusingly. That reminds me, you probably could safely delete a couple of shared folders and free some space for those who working on the project now.

I am on the road right now with limited internet access, I'll see what I can do when I get back home, but there are like 10 mb there so it doesn't matter.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2013, 09:42:57 AM by Xela »
Like what we're doing?

Offline DarkTl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4737
Re: -PyTFall- Dev Thread: Game Design/Ideas
« Reply #27 on: May 08, 2013, 09:54:03 AM »
I recall there being a SimBro version (Karin's I think), that allowed to set 'Specialization' on every brothel if there are a number of girls with specific trait inside, but that game had less traits than we do.
Well, that's probably a good way to make old, cheap brothels somewhat useful at late stages of the game too. I'm not sure which specializations exactly we could use though. Maybe something about occupations rather than traits?

Offline Xela

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6893
  • "It's like hunting cows"
Re: -PyTFall- Dev Thread: Game Design/Ideas
« Reply #28 on: May 08, 2013, 10:43:12 AM »
Well, that's probably a good way to make old, cheap brothels somewhat useful at late stages of the game too. I'm not sure which specializations exactly we could use though. Maybe something about occupations rather than traits?

Well, we'll see, I don't think we need traits for buildings, not now anyways.
Like what we're doing?

Offline DarkTl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4737
Re: -PyTFall- Dev Thread: Game Design/Ideas
« Reply #29 on: May 08, 2013, 11:02:03 AM »
One more thing. We could use some kind of signboard for each brothel, something that wm lacks unfortunately.
I mean, if you don't have whores in some brothel, and you don't even planning to add them there, focusing instead on bar or dungeons exploration (meaning you have service and warriors girls only in that brothel), then you don't want unhappy horny customers complaining at every turn.
Instead you could just remove "brothel" sign leaving in place "bar" sign, or even remove all signs and make a pure base from that building for your adventurers/gladiators.