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Offline Xela

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Re: -PyTFall- Dev Thread: Game Design/Ideas
« Reply #30 on: May 08, 2013, 12:31:36 PM »
One more thing. We could use some kind of signboard for each brothel, something that wm lacks unfortunately.
I mean, if you don't have whores in some brothel, and you don't even planning to add them there, focusing instead on bar or dungeons exploration (meaning you have service and warriors girls only in that brothel), then you don't want unhappy horny customers complaining at every turn.
Instead you could just remove "brothel" sign leaving in place "bar" sign, or even remove all signs and make a pure base from that building for your adventurers/gladiators.

Hmm... I'll think about it. Sounds like something doable.
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: -PyTFall- Dev Thread: Game Design/Ideas
« Reply #31 on: May 08, 2013, 04:41:26 PM »
Now then, in Ncog shared folder I've found some suggestions about new traits. However, I believe some of them, if we use 'em, should be implemented outside the traits system.
I mean girl's preferences:
Quote
Values: Money, Power, Clothes, Trips, Morality, Sex, Food, Drugs
Sex Values: Big Dick, Handsome Face, Muscular Body, Endurance, Dominance
Her Pride: Hair, Body, Breasts, Butt, Face, Style, Inteligence, Her work
Sex Preference: Vaginal, Anal, Double Penatration, Mutual Masterbation
Favorite Sex position: Cowgirl, Doggy style, Missionary, Sixty-Nine(MM only)
Favorite Place to be Kissed: Hand, Forehead, Cheek, Mouth
While I could create so many traits, it has little sense since traits are, well, traits of personality, not preferences.  However, the idea of girl's preferences is interesting.

Offline Xela

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Re: -PyTFall- Dev Thread: Game Design/Ideas
« Reply #32 on: May 08, 2013, 05:23:30 PM »
I mean girl's preferences:While I could create so many traits, it has little sense since traits are, well, traits of personality, not preferences.  However, the idea of girl's preferences is interesting.

For sure, that's something I wanted to explore and I already have some idea on how to code that but plan was to put that off for a while, until we had some events and quests set up and picture on how to enrich those was clearer. Most potential with girls preferences (likes/dislikes) lies in interactions with the player, other girls and to somewhat lesser degree, costumers. Since we don't have interactions/girlmeets/events setup right now, I wanted to see what we make of those first. Preferences can be added at latter stage.
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Offline fires_flair

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Re: -PyTFall- Dev Thread: Game Design/Ideas
« Reply #33 on: May 08, 2013, 11:55:34 PM »
Well, that's probably a good way to make old, cheap brothels somewhat useful at late stages of the game too. I'm not sure which specializations exactly we could use though. Maybe something about occupations rather than traits?
I know it's not being worked on right now, but I thought I'd pipe in, I gave it a little thought, and it might make more sense to give the bonuses based on the stats of the girls, and the game was sim brothel 2 (not the remakes, the original simbro2), you needed 2 girls to get lvl1 and one more for each level (there were 5 levels per skill). But you could try to work something on traits. (the skills I was thinking, was cleaning making the place loose cleaning slower (neat freaks), combat increases security and success in fighting related jobs (trading fighting tips), high looks makes more customers come (back) to the brothel, etc)

Offline Xela

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Re: -PyTFall- Dev Thread: Game Design/Ideas
« Reply #34 on: May 09, 2013, 03:29:22 AM »
I know it's not being worked on right now, but I thought I'd pipe in, I gave it a little thought, and it might make more sense to give the bonuses based on the stats of the girls, and the game was sim brothel 2 (not the remakes, the original simbro2), you needed 2 girls to get lvl1 and one more for each level (there were 5 levels per skill). But you could try to work something on traits. (the skills I was thinking, was cleaning making the place loose cleaning slower (neat freaks), combat increases security and success in fighting related jobs (trading fighting tips), high looks makes more customers come (back) to the brothel, etc)

Karin's SimBro is what people usually call it. It's a good plan, make a list of traits and check girls vs that. If for example, 3 girls in the brothel have combat related traits: brothel could be set to 'Security' bonus, lowering the number of attacks or giving girls there advantage when fighting with aggressive clients or both. Similar thing for beauty, job, intelligence, etc. related traits. Skills based approach would not work as well, not mentioning that we got to find new ways to make traits matter, making the game elements more unified. Levels can be added on exp based system or days counter...

It seems one of those things that are not likely to ruin the game in any way and add something to it (not an entirely new dimension, but still something fun). We should add this to building design when we write that so I'll highlight this bit. Maybe someone can come up with an even better idea.
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Offline mijh

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-PyTFall- Dev Thread: Towards Alpha - goals / functionality
« Reply #35 on: May 23, 2013, 04:05:17 AM »
Hi guys, I'd like to start a topic on what everyone thinks should be core elements and functionality of this game.

Things like,
x number of brothels
y number of girls, how can you interact with them
Game world has a, b, c functionality, and z locations
What battle, inventory, dating, etc systems should be present?
What functionality do you think it would be good to skip / limit for now?
What exactly should differentiate it from previous games?


I mainly want to try and work out what are core goals, and what are extras / nice to haves, what really makes the game releasable in your opinion.


We could just say "well I'd like to incorporate *all* these ideas!" but that could just ending up taking years to implement depending on developer time, and not end up with a balanced or enjoyable game.


I'd love to get feedback on all this, I will be thinking about my own opinions as well.

Cheers, Mijh

Offline Xela

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Re: -PyTFall- Dev Thread: Towards Alpha - goals / functionality
« Reply #36 on: May 23, 2013, 04:54:21 AM »
Merged with this thread because it's as close to game design as one can get :)

For starters:
mijh is very good coder who got interested in the project so even thou it's his first post on the forum, he's already aware of many of game's aspects and it's code. (Just a clarification cause you haven't introduced yourself)

This should be a part of game design section.

x number of brothels

I want to have 6 - 10, preferably 7/8 'Normal' and 2/3 unlockable by quests/events.



y number of girls, how can you interact with them

200 - 1000 (My guess would be around 300 good once (with more or less complete packs))

We are working with an understanding that there will be (if not on release day) but in the end, a LOT of characters in the game.


Interactions:

- Meeting and 'relationship' system in the city while they're not working for you (What I call girlmeets system). Based off one in SimBro 1x but with better graphics, better events and a more robust system.

- Interactions (once they're in your service), similar to girlsmeets in town but the point is not just raising disposition but also raising stats/skills.

- Different behavior system for slave and free girls, one point is that slave girls are not allowed to be trained for combat, their behavior on items use, freedom of going shopping on free time and so on.

Game world has a, b, c functionality, and z locations

Not designed yet even in concept :(

- Girlmeets
- Locations with NPCs
- Shops
- Graphical representations of at least some buildings (like school)
- Events
- Quests can be found in town

Locations are open at the moments, Forest/Witches Hut, Items Store, Slave Market, Park, Town Square have been discussed so far (not in detail).


What battle, inventory, dating, etc systems should be present?

Inventory = A system much as we have today but with better graphical design.
Battle = Several scenarios should be written, some default with random enemies of similar power, some unique once.
Dating = Basic VN style dating with rewards/penalties, forks and events (I am not planning this as a system, RenPy's own capabilities are more than enough!)

Arena = A fairly complex system where battles take place, I have loads of plans for it in my head but it should be a different topic in it's own right.

XMP tags, Rudi proposed a system where every image we have in a game gets tagged using data inside the image itself. That data is than pickled and loaded into the game. This will allow as a nearly perfect image matching anywhere in the game.

Slave-training

Maybe more...

What functionality do you think it would be good to skip / limit for now?

Skip:

- Slave-training I have not expanded on above because it is prolly a good idea to skip it, workload on it would be taxing.
- XMP tagging

Limit:

- Battle system to it's very minimum (Jake's BE is really advanced and allows even more cool stuff if we tweak it under the hood)



What exactly should differentiate it from previous games?

- Better GUI Interface.
- A complete game.
- Easier to script for.
- Ready to use RenPy VN engine for dating, quests, events.
- Battle Engine.
- Complete design
- Graphical and numerous events in the city (due to the simplicity of scripting system)

More I suppose, list would be fairly long.


I mainly want to try and work out what are core goals, and what are extras / nice to haves, what really makes the game releasable in your opinion.

Core Goal for me is to make a decent and worthy WM:2 (WM is my fav Hentai sim game design that tops SM/OW/SimBro/Valet Pletej and etc.)

Releasable = To me it would bit a bugfree game with well designed jobs, lots of events, some quests, girlsmeets, interactions and not to much micro.


We could just say "well I'd like to incorporate *all* these ideas!" but that could just ending up taking years to implement depending on developer time, and not end up with a balanced or enjoyable game.

The original Russian game is now messed up (in my humble opinion) because of to many ideas, opinions and lack of commitment to the original concept/idea. I am trying to kill as many elements that would add little to the game at a lot of developing cost at their roots so you can count on that trend continuing, at least from my side.

Still, I am always open to ideas, especially those that add a lot of value to the game and are not to difficult to code in!


I'd love to get feedback on all this, I will be thinking about my own opinions as well.

Lets hear them!  8)
« Last Edit: May 23, 2013, 05:02:55 AM by Xela »
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Offline CherryWood

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Re: -PyTFall- Dev Thread: Game Design/Ideas
« Reply #37 on: May 23, 2013, 08:34:18 AM »
I am a fan of visual novel elements in games, so for me the biggest plus point by far is RenPy itself.  I didn't know about it before and now I just love it! I have hight hopes that it will make the game more attractive for people to add content in it.
So for me, the more things we add that could be easy to understand and expanded from outside of dev team, the better. There was a "write guides" part in the original development plan and I would really like to stick that out more.


I'm most interested in brothel management and relationship parts of the game. I personally would prefer to not pursue the rpg elements too much until these are in reasonable state.
It would be nice to have a game where allocating girls differently will have some observable impact. For example, our current connection between different jobs is something I really like.


x number of brothels
I like to group girls more, so I would prefer about 15 maybe? But they don't have to be super unique....
Quote
y number of girls, how can you interact with them
I think simbro1x system is ok for girlmeets. If we can get enough lines that would make sense it should be ok for release I guess. At lest for meeting girl in some common place in city.
There is an idea to expand these and interaction with employed girls with dates/go outs that would take place somewhere more interesting and be pre-written with some forks that would leads to different outcomes or be determined by traits/condition. I like it, but unless some writers will join, I fear it would take too much time to have it for beta.
Also a system that will allow unique approaches for specific girls that will have they own script written.
I plan to work on this part a bit when I will finally have more time...


 - slaves   I wouldn't really skip work on slaves. I think a lot of fun stuff can be done with them. To lighten the work, I personally suggest not doing the usual breaking/obedience-training part (there's a game for that afterall) and make slaves expensive, but following all orders. Just give player more freedom to manage them with all positive/negative effect it could have (work them till they drop... etc.).


/I'll write more later, must go now


Offline Xela

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Re: -PyTFall- Dev Thread: Game Design/Ideas
« Reply #38 on: May 23, 2013, 08:59:42 AM »
I am a fan of visual novel elements in games, so for me the biggest plus point by far is RenPy itself.  I didn't know about it before and now I just love it! I have hight hopes that it will make the game more attractive for people to add content in it.
So for me, the more things we add that could be easy to understand and expanded from outside of dev team, the better. There was a "write guides" part in the original development plan and I would really like to stick that out more.


I'm most interested in brothel management and relationship parts of the game. I personally would prefer to not pursue the rpg elements too much until these are in reasonable state.
It would be nice to have a game where allocating girls differently will have some observable impact. For example, our current connection between different jobs is something I really like.

I like to group girls more, so I would prefer about 15 maybe? But they don't have to be super unique....I think simbro1x system is ok for girlmeets. If we can get enough lines that would make sense it should be ok for release I guess. At lest for meeting girl in some common place in city.
There is an idea to expand these and interaction with employed girls with dates/go outs that would take place somewhere more interesting and be pre-written with some forks that would leads to different outcomes or be determined by traits/condition. I like it, but unless some writers will join, I fear it would take too much time to have it for beta.
Also a system that will allow unique approaches for specific girls that will have they own script written.
I plan to work on this part a bit when I will finally have more time...


 - slaves   I wouldn't really skip work on slaves. I think a lot of fun stuff can be done with them. To lighten the work, I personally suggest not doing the usual breaking/obedience-training part (there's a game for that afterall) and make slaves expensive, but following all orders. Just give player more freedom to manage them with all positive/negative effect it could have (work them till they drop... etc.).


/I'll write more later, must go now


Well, we pretty much have the same views on development :)

I am a fan of visual novel elements in games, so for me the biggest plus point by far is RenPy itself.  I didn't know about it before and now I just love it! I have hight hopes that it will make the game more attractive for people to add content in it.
So for me, the more things we add that could be easy to understand and expanded from outside of dev team, the better. There was a "write guides" part in the original development plan and I would really like to stick that out more.

RenPy does offer a LOT and I will write a guide when all relevant systems are wrapped up. For now we've agreed to handle brothels first.

I'm most interested in brothel management and relationship parts of the game. I personally would prefer to not pursue the rpg elements too much until these are in reasonable state.
It would be nice to have a game where allocating girls differently will have some observable impact. For example, our current connection between different jobs is something I really like.

Agreed, rpg elements are likely to make workload for the game unmanageable and will not lead into a happy place in the end. I am planning a lot for girl's allocation as you've put it. Girls will live their own lives, maybe even form teams and friendships. It's easy to code in under the current setup of the game and adds a lot of value to it. In any case, detailed systems like that should be in separate topic, this is for general concepts so everyone knows what we're working on.


I like to group girls more, so I would prefer about 15 maybe? But they don't have to be super unique....I think simbro1x system is ok for girlmeets. If we can get enough lines that would make sense it should be ok for release I guess. At lest for meeting girl in some common place in city.
There is an idea to expand these and interaction with employed girls with dates/go outs that would take place somewhere more interesting and be pre-written with some forks that would leads to different outcomes or be determined by traits/condition. I like it, but unless some writers will join, I fear it would take too much time to have it for beta.
Also a system that will allow unique approaches for specific girls that will have they own script written.
I plan to work on this part a bit when I will finally have more time...

I wouldn't worry about it to much, even if writers will not step up, I can come up with a fair amount of content in a few weeks. I suggest we worry about that when game's core is ready.

- slaves   I wouldn't really skip work on slaves. I think a lot of fun stuff can be done with them. To lighten the work, I personally suggest not doing the usual breaking/obedience-training part (there's a game for that afterall) and make slaves expensive, but following all orders. Just give player more freedom to manage them with all positive/negative effect it could have (work them till they drop... etc.).

Yeap, my thoughts exactly for the first release. I am planning however to add a very advanced slave training element after the first release is complete and have an insane amount of good ideas for it. But for now, I say we work towards releasing an Alpha, Beta and a release version first and add to it later.
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: -PyTFall- Dev Thread: Game Design/Ideas
« Reply #39 on: May 23, 2013, 12:31:18 PM »
And I'm finally back after 6 hours of hard disk recovery, which broke as soon as I entered pinkpetal today  :D

VN elements are ok, but to tell the truth I joined dev team because of the battle engine. I hope one day the game will be as close to jrpg as indie visual hentai novel can. With some kind of dungeons, random encounters, leveling, artifacts and, of course, arena.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2013, 12:33:30 PM by DarkTl »

Offline Xela

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Re: -PyTFall- Dev Thread: Game Design/Ideas
« Reply #40 on: May 23, 2013, 02:42:56 PM »
And I'm finally back after 6 hours of hard disk recovery, which broke as soon as I entered pinkpetal today  :D

VN elements are ok, but to tell the truth I joined dev team because of the battle engine. I hope one day the game will be as close to jrpg as indie visual hentai novel can. With some kind of dungeons, random encounters, leveling, artifacts and, of course, arena.

First time I hear this...

Alkion is heading straight into that direction, you never joined dev team there? Also there is a SimBrothel made on top of RPG Maker (Revival Version).

Otherwise:

- Extensive Arena is most definitely planned for the release version. That's one of the cool things I'm really looking forward to have in the game.

- There will be scripted combat events (already are now).

- Leveling is also planned but not only or separately from Combat.

- Artifacts as Powerful items or something different?

- Random encounters will also be there during events.

- Dungeons and exploration...

 That's one of the things I still cannot wrap my head around. In order to do that properly, an insane amount of code needs to be written and even greater amount of good, dedicated graphics required.

1) The simplest thing we can do right now are random fights in 'leveled' environments. Like you start on forest outskirts, fight some battles, face a boss and get the ability to move into the forest (new background). Then into the Deep-Wood. Also Catacombs/Dungeons of different depth.

2) Second option is to use edge-scrolling, picture-point or tile capabilities of the Battle Engine (I don't know if you tried the whole presentation of the battle engine, we actually use a tiny bit of it in PyTFall right now)
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: -PyTFall- Dev Thread: Game Design/Ideas
« Reply #41 on: May 23, 2013, 03:05:16 PM »
First time I hear this...
A coincidence most likely.

Alkion is heading straight into that direction, you never joined dev team there?
Nope, looks like it will be a pure rpg rather than what I mentioned. For example, Eliont mentioned once that he decided to not use slaves at all.
Not to mention that I just don't believe that Alkion will be ready for playing in the next 10 years, if at all.

- Artifacts as Powerful items
Yup. We don't have too many systems for now (locations, enemies, effects, skills and spells) to create items freely, but I'm looking forward to it.

That's one of the things I still cannot wrap my head around. In order to do that properly, an insane amount of code needs to be written and even greater amount of good, dedicated graphics required.
I never thought about it yet. I'll take a look at that presentation when I'll have some time. But we always can do dungeon crawling in SM3 way (a random text quest, basically).
« Last Edit: May 23, 2013, 04:19:17 PM by DarkTl »

Offline Xela

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Re: -PyTFall- Dev Thread: Game Design/Ideas
« Reply #42 on: May 23, 2013, 03:19:35 PM »
I never thought about it yet. I'll take a look at that presentation when I'll have some time. But we always can do dungeon crawling in SM3 way (a random text quest, basically).

I threw it into the DB folder. We have to do better than SM3 :)
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: -PyTFall- Dev Thread: Game Design/Ideas
« Reply #43 on: May 23, 2013, 03:40:39 PM »
Also there is a SimBrothel made on top of RPG Maker (Revival Version).
I like to play as a necromancer in games, but to be a necromancer in game dev is another story  :)

Offline DarkTl

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Re: -PyTFall- Dev Thread: Game Design/Ideas
« Reply #44 on: May 24, 2013, 06:57:53 AM »
Now then, I don't know how many coding will require each system, so I just will share my impressions.

Path battle type seems interesting if we'll be able to randomize those pathes well enough.
Panning/Scrolling looks very good, but I'm pretty sure that we unable to draw or find enough maps for it.
To move on the global map of some forest/dungeon we could use either Path system or hex map. Imagine one of them on a map like this or that.

Besides, there are generators of random dungeon maps, we could use or reproduce one of them. It probably will work well with simple grid or hex.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2013, 02:34:38 PM by DarkTl »