Author Topic: Game Design/Ideas  (Read 123536 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline DarkTl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4737
Re: Game Design/Ideas
« Reply #195 on: August 08, 2013, 11:38:14 AM »
I'm still not sure how to handle items drop.
In some games dropped items totally depend on enemy type (most jrpgs). Each enemy has 2-5 items that could be found with some probability after its death, either one at a time or all 5 at the same time if you lucky.

In other games (Diablo, for example) it's pure or almost pure random, so you can actually find very rare item a few steps away from the city, while from boss you can get various trash.

Another option is spreading by locations and tiles types, so, for example, you can find elven armor only on the forest map and only on an elven forest tile no matter the enemy.

Offline Xela

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6893
  • "It's like hunting cows"
Re: Game Design/Ideas
« Reply #196 on: August 08, 2013, 11:43:17 AM »
Something came up so I didn't get far today :(

We could try different ways to handle item drops and maybe even bind items to tiles.
Like what we're doing?

Offline CherryWood

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 643
Re: Game Design/Ideas
« Reply #197 on: August 09, 2013, 03:22:40 AM »

May I ask about this "dungeon" thing you are working on? I get this secondary stuff like maps, graphic, item rewards... but I'm still confused about some basics, like:

Is this exploration instant (within one day) or it's supposed to take more days?
What will be a limiting factor for one run? (fatigue, AP, time, just dead...)
Is this supposed to be main thing that warriors can do, or just optional alternative to some automated exploration job?
Characters in combat will be alone, or switchable from larger exploration party? Can non-warriors be there too?

...for example, in Sengoku Range (H game with best gameplay I know) there's interesting one AP = one attack/action system for characters in battle that defines the whole tactics for dungeons, and I just wanted to know If we will have some system like that too, or just more standard rpg approach

Offline Xela

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6893
  • "It's like hunting cows"
Re: Game Design/Ideas
« Reply #198 on: August 09, 2013, 04:05:58 AM »
Is this exploration instant (within one day) or it's supposed to take more days?

Instant, one time AP cost and per tile fatigue cost.


What will be a limiting factor for one run? (fatigue, AP, time, just dead...)

Fatigue shouldn't really be an issue, death unless player is really careful (mainly to inability to take more than three items per party member).


Is this supposed to be main thing that warriors can do, or just optional alternative to some automated exploration job?

We'll add exploration job later, I don't want it to be a choice in Brothel but kinda of a "Guild" building player might run in the future.


Characters in combat will be alone, or switchable from larger exploration party? Can non-warriors be there too?

Not sure about non-warriors, right now there is no "per occupation" delimiting code of any kind. Three members per party is the limit, I don't want to expand beyond that before 1.0.


...for example, in Sengoku Range (H game with best gameplay I know) there's interesting one AP = one attack/action system for characters in battle that defines the whole tactics for dungeons, and I just wanted to know If we will have some system like that too, or just more standard rpg approach[/font]

Nothing like that, rance is practically built around that battle/conquest engine, ours will be more rpg/rougelike.
Like what we're doing?

Offline DarkTl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4737
Re: Game Design/Ideas
« Reply #199 on: August 09, 2013, 04:17:27 AM »
Characters in combat will be alone, or switchable from larger exploration party?
We need a new BE for such things. Xela going to make a new one, but not before 1.0.

Can non-warriors be there too?
It depends on how we solve the problem with characters that don't have battle sprite.
One of possible solutions is to prohibit such characters become warriors under all circumstances, and use only warriors in BE.

...for example, in Sengoku Range (H game with best gameplay I know) there's interesting one AP = one attack/action system for characters in battle that defines the whole tactics for dungeons, and I just wanted to know If we will have some system like that too, or just more standard rpg approach
In Sengoku Rance characters have lot of AP in comparison with our game. Besides, we already use AP for many things outside of BE. I believe AP are too valuable to freely waste them during combat.

Offline CherryWood

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 643
Re: Game Design/Ideas
« Reply #200 on: August 09, 2013, 01:29:12 PM »
Thanks for your responses!





[/size][size=78%]Nothing like that, rance is practically built around that battle/conquest engine, ours will be more rpg/rougelike.[/size]
I know it's different, but systems similar to that one in Rance creates need for having and using more girls and, because we want to have a lot of girls in pytfall, I believe it's something worth considering a little.  Standard rpg systems don't have that in mind, and player can usually steamroll whole game with just one party (that would be just 2 girls in our case) of well trained and supplied (potions...) warriors.

Offline Xela

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6893
  • "It's like hunting cows"
Re: Game Design/Ideas
« Reply #201 on: August 09, 2013, 01:57:28 PM »

I know it's different, but systems similar to that one in Rance creates need for having and using more girls and, because we want to have a lot of girls in pytfall, I believe it's something worth considering a little.  Standard rpg systems don't have that in mind, and player can usually steamroll whole game with just one party (that would be just 2 girls in our case) of well trained and supplied (potions...) warriors.

Game is not supposed to be about exploration along and we can always write unique quests that would require specific girls to unlock new tiles/territory in the future.

Basically, I simply cannot see warfare/territory conquest/army system like that in rance working for us in PyTFall. If you want to write a simplified concept, we'll put it on the table, maybe for after 1.0 or now if it's really good :)
Like what we're doing?

Offline CherryWood

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 643
Re: Game Design/Ideas
« Reply #202 on: August 09, 2013, 04:15:11 PM »
 ...ok, it's ok, I will just trust you  :) 

Offline DarkTl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4737
Re: Game Design/Ideas
« Reply #203 on: September 01, 2013, 01:21:40 PM »
While I was on vacation, I've finished Dark Souls, not without some farming though, and still proud about it, so I have some thoughts about the balance  :)

When Future released wm ex, its main feature, aside from questionable lack of control over girls traits, was difficulty.
In wm you really have to work hard to lose. In wm ex you could lose within 10 turns if you careless or just unlucky.

I'm not sure if we need difficulty levels, but I'm pretty sure the game needs some challenge. I think exploration engine where you cannot return to safety immediately or even can run out of stamina and pay a price is a good start.
AI opponents (not necessarily competing brothels, maybe just street gangs that could attack you and kidnap girls, and you have to either pay ransom or fight them; or random girls-thieves that could steal items, and you have to find and catch them) are welcomed too.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2013, 01:24:15 PM by DarkTl »

Offline ninjinto

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: Game Design/Ideas
« Reply #204 on: September 08, 2013, 02:26:48 PM »
Regarding item drops:

Some items could be used as 'keys,' which allow the player to overcome obstacles that would be impossible without. Rather than a literal key and a locked door, a good example might be some boss fight where only one rare element can inflict enough damage to win the fight. Could be a magic weapon, or a piece of armor that turns overwhelming damage into something reasonable, or a consumable that negates an unfair damage over time effect; pretty much anything. The only requirement is that a challenge be effectively impossible without either hacking or having the right thing - gaining the right thing is what earns the player the right to pass.

Dungeon B's boss does fire damage to everything in sight constantly; dungeon A contains armor which absorbs fire damage. Or apply reflect status to the priestess so she can't heal herself, or slow the really fast fencer succubus so she can't keep poking you five times for every one attack you get. Counters are what put thought and strategy into RPGs.

Offline DarkTl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4737
Re: Game Design/Ideas
« Reply #205 on: September 08, 2013, 03:29:55 PM »
That's more about BE rather then item drop. Our current BE is extremly simple, it doesn't even have elements (it could have them according to demo, but they are not implemented in the game yet).

Xela wanted to make a new one after 1.0 version, but since you prefer programming, you might do it right now  :)

Offline Xela

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6893
  • "It's like hunting cows"
Re: Game Design/Ideas
« Reply #206 on: September 08, 2013, 03:51:09 PM »
Xela wanted to make a new one after 1.0 version, but since you prefer programming, you might do it right now  :)

Hgehe. Well, it's not like Jake's battleengine cannot handle everything suggested, it's a matter of work required to mod it vs coding one that just allows everything we want and more. The trouble is that Jake's BE is a mess of intertwined code that supports all kinds of moving, grid and terrain based battles that is very confusing.

Otherwise, non of the ideas are new, it can all be implemented in the future.
Like what we're doing?

Offline DarkTl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4737
Re: Game Design/Ideas
« Reply #207 on: September 15, 2013, 10:27:16 AM »
I wonder if we should allow players to select a partner for a girl during lesbian interaction. I remember people often asked for this during wm and wm ex development.

I know we cannot show appropriate picture with specific two girls most of the time, but SM3 works without it. Or we could show two les pics, either simultaneously or one after the other.

Offline Xela

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6893
  • "It's like hunting cows"
Re: Game Design/Ideas
« Reply #208 on: September 15, 2013, 10:46:09 AM »
I wonder if we should allow players to select a partner for a girl during lesbian interaction. I remember people often asked for this during wm and wm ex development.

I know we cannot show appropriate picture with specific two girls most of the time, but SM3 works without it. Or we could show two les pics, either simultaneously or one after the other.

Not a bad idea, we could show two nude pics and one lesbian or default lesbian. Should be really simple to do as well.
Like what we're doing?

Offline Ponderer

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8
Re: Game Design/Ideas
« Reply #209 on: September 23, 2013, 09:48:15 PM »
Hey there!  I know this is a small little group posting ideas, but I'm amidst other projects now that are waiting on others, and because ideas are part of what I do, I thought I'd brainstorm a bit while I was here!  Of course in this brainstorm, I set out with large overarching goals that might need a lot of reworking or simplification to fit within the design goals, and might not be appropriate for the project at all.  With that said, the only cost is time reading, so I hope it won't be too high a price.  My wording here is written a bit train of thought, so statements such as "I think it should", etc, should not be taken as expectation, just how I express my potential ideas when I'm thinking to myself, and I didn't take much time to filter my thoughts too greatly only because as I started brainstorming, my brain decided it was a bit pent up so there's more material than I expected to write.  Because this is a first post here, it is going to be heavy on concept and light on specifics.  If any ideas are considered relevant, you can decide which ones fit the project and I can help flesh them out so long as I still have time to assist.

I think items could work on multiple tiers.  Ores, plans and enchantments should all dictate what guards and regimens can wield.  Dusts, tools and coals are needed to create items.  Dusts help enchanting, tools and coals are needed for creation and enhancement of weapons and armor.  Each of them are used and broken as items are made, and are spoils of exploration, dungeon delving, expansion, bought on the black market or summoned with mana (assuming you have the connections or strength of magic, respectively).

Items themselves should grow with the players, allowing modification and diversity.  For instance, a dagger found may only start with Sharp, granting a plus to damage, but it can be enchanted to do fire damage, or help the girl sneak through the dungeon or elsewhere more easily.  Its 'sharp' may be upgraded to vorpal with a scroll, or changed to 'double bladed' with another. Base weapons and armor should be rare, and have limits to their upgrades, where as the upgrades for their stats should be more plentiful.  Infusing weapons with new enchantments should be costly in both gold and mana, but offer tangible benefits in line with their costs .  i.e. weapons should be useful even if 'better' options come along.
 
Mana drain – This is a simple renewal mechanic made to combat the 'infinite gains' problem of the original Whore Master, and the core reason behind it.  Eventually, girls will run out of mana they can meaningfully contribute.  Though I do think there should be immortal girls that are immune to this – I also think they should be very rare and hard won.  I also think they should be either very difficult, very pricey, or perhaps impossible to breed.  This could be dependent on how far the player is in the game, the amount of resources they have, or the difficulty of game they've chosen. When girls run out of mana, they could still earn gold for the player – giving him the chance to convert gold to mana to keep themselves from going under.  But the exchange should become less desirable the more gold is being converted to mana.  The idea behind this is that eventually a player will do better to replace current girls with new ones (likely their offspring or newly captured girls).

Alternatively, the player should be able to add girls to a mana pool so that they can replenish more well trained girls.  This would offer an effective drain for extra girls gained through exploration and conquest, without exploding population outward.  Let's say they are brought to the dungeons and milked of their orgasms to filter that energy into the other girls.  This is where the offspring mechanic ties into this system neatly.  In this way, trained girls are at a premium, and if they are replaced it is more slowly with similar (or better depending on the effort put in) replacements, all without such a sharp rise in population with no drain to match.  There are always girls in the lower levels feeding mana up to the 'useful' girls, and there will always be a need to get more girls of lower caliber, but endlessly cluttering up your brothels will girls would come at a price of lower gains (lesser girls pay out less and are wasteful of mana) thus the incentives work to keep populations reasonable.
 
Having mana and spells might also be a window for a tangible reason for alignment.  Alignment makes dark powers 'orgasm denial torture', 'regenerating flesh' (cheaper version of the good aligned 'protective shield', in battle she endures the agony of being cut up but heals from it quickly with limits defined by the amount of mana in the spell, but at the same time must endure the psychological stress of torture in terms of morale in battle and mood/fear after the battle), etc.  Out of battle, having protective shield can protect your girls from violence, whereas regenerating flesh can let sadistic clients torment girls for their own amusement, or let them endure through more prolonged torment designed to break them in the dungeons.
 
There should be an option for girls to offer themselves willingly into slavehood.  Doing so should require a complex, long chain of actions, and be rewarded with benefits such as improved stat growth, greater mana, etc.

Time skips.  The player should be able to send children into an alternate dimension to be raised.  Thus breeding superior women based on their parents stats without the game needing to take untold weeks for the girls to be viable.  Also, you could direct the girls training every few week (which for them would be a much longer period of time) to help improve their stats in certain ways - so long as you're willing to invest the gold and/or mana it takes to get the effect you desire.
 
Strategy – Expansion should be a long, slow slog that comes in several phases.  First, building up gold and mana should be necessary for a long while.  War cannot be fought without basic resources.  Building up critical mass of resources should be necessary for every phase of the war, which will be a large mana and gold burn.  At the end of it however, you have expanded your front line outward, which means more area to defend and more resources to expend to do so, but at the same time, a larger area to cultivate and capitalize upon.

Conceptually, this means building up regimens (the analogue to gangs in whore master), training them and growing their ranks, equipping them with items infused with ores and enchantments found during exploration and dungeon delving.  It means, if possible, having girls out there on the front lines who are experienced and able in combat.  It means ideally having your player commander equipped with rare spells and the mana needed to cast them on the field of battle.

Moving forward on the field of battle will be a slow move, week to week.  Injuries will be mitigated by healers within the gangs and more effectively among your girls, all costing mana.  Any casualties that are injuries may return next week or in the coming weeks, whereas deaths cannot be replaced.  Once you commit yourself to a battle, you must find a secure defensible front (fort or castle).  Failure to do so means you are driven back to your territory, losses incurred without any appreciable gains.  Success on the other hand requires a significant resource drain... that goes along with new opportunities.

Capturing new territory should not be the end of the struggle.  Each town, fort, wooden pallisade, forest hold or castle should have a holed up elite guard that has the mana to conjure the food and resources they need for what is essentially indefinitely.  The player must then infiltrate with high risk to a few elite girls, fight in the streets and then floor to floor in a direct conflict, or slowly win over the people, surviving the countless rebellions and magical strikes from within the stronghold until the people accept you.

Either way, whether they come out to negotiate, get kidnapped out, or imprisoned after a mighty battle, your job is then to legitimize yourself within the area by 'marrying' yourself (either enslaving or entering into a one sided polygamous relationship with) the civic leader, the duchess, the princess, the queen, or all of them.  Each is harder than the next, and each gives a bonus to mana for breaking them or seducing them and making them part of your kingdom.

Training all  of them under your banner will, instead of the rest simply falling in line, give your player the chance to unlock secret family heirlooms, artifacts and ores that can teach your player spells, enhance your regimens, or empower your girls, as well as having royalty that may make excellent whores for the wealthy elites or, if you want to milk their mana faster at the expense of efficiency, given to the masses to rut like animals for much less money but much more immediate mana.

Dungeon delving should be an equally in depth experience.  With the chance to have girls captured as real as the chance to capture girls.  There should be ways to quell the influx of monsters into an area so it can be secured, sealed from the more dangerous parts of the dungeon, and used to contain girls for torture or for training.  There should be boss monsters that take either weakening through consistent battles, undermining through cutting off the flow of monsters, or goading into a challenge by stealing his women out from under him.  Once you defeat all bosses of a level, you can go deeper. 

However, each new level is not a stairway but a portal, and choosing to put a small amount of mana into the portal will open you to another small level with very little usable room for girls and very few usable dungeons tools.  A larger mana contribution yields a much larger dungeon with more places to hold women and more effective training tools, but also a much longer, harder fight to clear that level.  Choosing to hold a level requires ongoing mana expenditure to keep it attuned to the manor.  Otherwise, the player can choose to let it slip when they move, draining it of resources and moving on to a new random dungeon.

 
Girls, customers, and ongoing happiness.
In whore master, an outside observation (this could be completely wrong) is that satisfaction seems to be based on only a few things, whatever the customer is doing with one girl, her talent and attractiveness, and the cleanliness of the place.  It might add depth if there were more factors.  Perhaps you would get more out of a customer if they had a talented waitress serving him first, they ended up gambling away some of their money, and got a show before eventually entering the brothel.

 
This would give incentive to train many girls for many occupations that don't earn you much at all by themselves, but become necessary for higher paying clients and to be seen as a respectable establishment at higher levels of success. This could be another use for random girls, rewarding that excitement of random chance in seeking out and finding new girls to add without drowning the game in resource machines.

New girl occupation:  Talent scout – Having a loyal enough girl with high intelligence will unlock this option, letting you assign a girl to go through the world and seek out other girls based on your expectations.  However, higher expectations lead to longer search times (depending on her stats, experience with the job and morale), and will often come with complications.  A girl with high magic may be in a wizard school and have powerful friends to keep from you or to try to take her back if you seduce her away, she might be a priestess who is chaste and impossible to seduce, who has no interest in leaving so you have to put her temple in crisis so offering herself up is the only way to get her, etc.

I think in terms of expenses, the player should be very limited.  Perhaps his manor was destroyed and nearly driven away from all other planes of existence in an attempt to banish him.  It took most all of his power to keep from being separated from the other planes, but that means he can only keep the manor open for half the day.  A> This gives an enforced "Rest" period to help new players and challenge more experienced ones who power through  B> it gives a use for the 'mana' mechanic. Spending mana allows you to do one of many things.  Maintain a stronger link to the material plane.  (allowing girls to work day and afternoon, then later day, afternoon, and dusk, then finally day, afternoon, dusk and the coveted nighttime if we wanted to expand the day/night cycle even further, but that's something that's a bit more tricky as working 4 times a day must be balanced with the extra maintenance and income involved).

As an aside for shops, it might be useful to have the ability to place an order for certain items.  You pay a premium, but you don't have to wait on the store to stock it.



Alright, I'm going to stop there rather than post the rest of my ideas, it's already even longer than I'd thought it was going to be.  If nothing seems useful or appropriate for the project, that's fine.  I offered these ideas freely just to help flex my brain!  If however there are concepts that you like, I can try to help simplify, expand or flesh them out.  If I have enough free time consistently, I can help with writing as well should you wish it!

Thanks for reading!

 
« Last Edit: September 23, 2013, 10:51:07 PM by Ponderer »