Stats Concept

[DarkTl]

Instead of creating absolute maximum that cannot be exceeded inless the trait is removed we could try negative values for mod and mod/max per level.

[Xela]

Instead of creating absolute maximum that cannot be exceeded inless the trait is removed we could try negative values for mod and mod/max per level.

No a good idea, that kind of suggests that characters are getting dumber/uglier/weaker over time, traits we have problems with atm do not suggest it.

We can rename them... "Genius" to "Great Mind" or "Intellectual aptitude/gift". That would mean about the same thing and not suggest a value of a stat relative to other characters.

[livingforever]

Hi!

We already had one successful release and NOONE! complained about that or even mentioned it...

Nobody complained?

Currently, most traits are just attribute modifications that don't have a meaning at all, especially since there are three other ways of gaining attribute points (experience, training and equipment).

Right. Nobody at all. 
Just so you don't have to read the context, back then I was referring to traits not having unique mechanics (which is not the point here) and to the fact that many traits are redundant with attributes.

The quintessence (that I mentioned in the quoted post): Remove all traits that don't have a unique influence. If a trait does nothing but modifying minimum, current and/or maximum stats, then modify the stats instead of using a trait.

And by the way, I think renaming intelligence to knowledge does make sense (DarkTI's reasons are valid). Renaming an attribute should be a matter of seconds in a modern IDE and if people don't want things to change then they shouldn't play an alpha version.
Have fun!

[Xela]

Hi!Nobody complained?
Right. Nobody at all. 
Just so you don't have to read the context, back then I was referring to traits not having unique mechanics (which is not the point here) and to the fact that many traits are redundant with attributes.

The quintessence (that I mentioned in the quoted post): Remove all traits that don't have a unique influence. If a trait does nothing but modifying minimum, current and/or maximum stats, then modify the stats instead of using a trait.

And by the way, I think renaming intelligence to knowledge does make sense (DarkTI's reasons are valid). Renaming an attribute should be a matter of seconds in a modern IDE and if people don't want things to change then they shouldn't play an alpha version.
Have fun!

Right... well, to be fair, I meant that nobody noticed (for example) Genius Girl with significantly lower int stats than her counterpart or complained about it. We're on the same side on this one, I too keep suggesting that it's prolly a better bet to remove traits.

"knowledge" I am against, maybe it's the matter of English not being my first language but to me personally, knowledge points to something specific. Even general knowledge does not reflect what I want this stat to reflect.

[livingforever]

Hi!

I meant that nobody noticed (for example) Genius Girl with significantly lower int stats than her counterpart or complained about it.

Alright, my bad for misreading it then.
I guess things like your example are very subtle because it only gets obvious if you directly compare one character's traits and attributes to another.

Even general knowledge does not reflect what I want this stat to reflect.

I see. Maybe perception would be the better choice then? It's a very common stat in RPGs and it is definitely easier to learn than acquiring intelligence. Wisdom might be an option as well as it is a lot less specific than knowledge.
Have fun!

[Xela]

I see. Maybe perception would be the better choice then? It's a very common stat in RPGs and it is definitely easier to learn than acquiring intelligence. Wisdom might be an option as well as it is a lot less specific than knowledge.

Wisdom is a good candidate, but it's usually a battle stat in these kinds of games.

[DarkTl]

It's just that with no maximums at all, it's hard to tell what those skill numbers actually mean in reality, etc. at what value is the girl should be considered strong (intelligent, a good cocksucker...) in relation to the game world (is it at 50, 100, 500?).

Ok, it's a good question, for both stats and skills. Without maximums (and I don't want to add them) one of the ways is use levels. Like 0-50 is horrible, 50-100 bad, ..., 800-1000 excellent, more than 1000 is godly. Or something like that.
We could actually use these levels as flags, or just ignore them and use only in gui.

Then again, we don't have to do anything here.

Wisdom is a good candidate, but it's usually a battle stat in these kinds of games.

In NWN games that are based on D&D it used for both spells and dialogue checks.

[Xela]

Ok, it's a good question, for both stats and skills. Without maximums (and I don't want to add them) one of the ways is use levels. Like 0-50 is horrible, 50-100 bad, ..., 800-1000 excellent, more than 1000 is godly. Or something like that.
We could actually use these levels as flags, or just ignore them and use only in gui.

Then again, we don't have to do anything here.

I or Thewlis will come up with a way to get "True Skill" for actions/jobs on per case basis based on skills, relevant stats and (maybe) traits as well. First we need to finalize stats/skills/traits names/ranks concepts. It's hard to proceed with writing the code until these things ain't set in stone.

In NWN games that are based on D&D it used for both spells and dialogue checks.

Well... I really, REALLY don't mind intelligence stat but if you want a change, wisdom is the best option for renaming it so far.

[DarkTl]

Either we rename traits or stat. And it's easier to find a good name and description for one stat than for 4 traits. As for changing checks in the code, traits have them too.
I don't mind wisdom either.

Of course we don't have to rename anything, but when one thing has stat and several traits as its description, it can't be good for logic, both common and machine ones.

[DarkTl]

So, skills.
- Service: general ability to serve the customer, leaving him pleased. Waitress, bartender, etc.
- Cleaning: ability to perform cleaning quickly and efficiently. Cleaner mostly, but others could use it too to produce less dirt.
- Refinement: knowledge about society, manners, fashion, rules of behavior, etiquette. For jobs that require to socialize a lot.
- Vaginal, oral, anal skills. I propose to actually use two sets, for straight and lesbian ones. I believe they require a bit different skills (can't say for sure, but still  ). We also could tie them to each other, so when for example straight oral skill gets 5 points, lesbian gets 1-2 points, and vice versa.
- Group and bdsm. We could add bdsm skill, but I don't think that we need something more than multiple checks for group actions. It probably needs two sides though, sadistic and masochistic, or it could depend on traits solely.
- Cooking. To make it work, we actually need a kitchen. I don't think brothels are supposed to have one. But we always can add restaurants or sleazy bars (like in SM3). Also will be useful for MC house.
- Dancing, singing, music. I recall there were events with dancing and singing in wm. So we could use it to entertain customers too. Then again, usual brothels don't need it, bars/restaurants do.
- Striptease. For the job. Dancing skill is useful here too, but it's still not the same thing.
- Paperwork, or bookkeeping, or accountancy, or something like this. Useful for matronas, secretaries, etc.
- Leadership/domination/plain slave training or something to train slaves. Actually, there could be two skills: how well they teach others and how well they force slaves to obey. Teaching skill could be useful in the future, if girls could teach each other.
- Exploring, for SE. How they they, well, explore stuff to find items and random girls.
- Healing/medicine/nurse, not sure about the name. There are many characters that are able to heal in one way or another. Even though we don't have mechanics to do so currently, we most likely will.

Either there should be the way to set starting skills in girls data, or I will create traits for them (for example, healing trait for Sakura).

[livingforever]

- Vaginal, oral, anal skills. I propose to actually use two sets, for straight and lesbian ones. I believe they require a bit different skills (can't say for sure, but still  ). We also could tie them to each other, so when for example straight oral skill gets 5 points, lesbian gets 1-2 points, and vice versa.

You really love your lesbian skill, don't you.
I'll try to put it as simple as possible: There is no need for it. The body part skills that I mentioned earlier (vaginal, anal, oral, digital) cover everything necessary for all gender combinations (except that vaginal should of course be renamed for male characters).

- Group and bdsm. We could add bdsm skill, but I don't think that we need something more than multiple checks for group actions. It probably needs two sides though, sadistic and masochistic, or it could depend on traits solely.

How well can the character please multiple customers at once? That's acceptable.
How well can the character... do what? Take part in bondage interactions? That's not a skill. It depends on how obedient you are (which is a trait) and how much you like pain (which is also a trait). No point in having a skill.
Have fun!

[DarkTl]

You really love your lesbian skill, don't you.

I believe there is a difference between sucking and licking in case of oral for example, with very different techniques, poses and erogenous zones. Also I believe there is the same difference between straight sex and using equipment like strapons and dildos for lesbian sex.

Basically, I think that if someone is experienced in straight anal sex, it doesn't mean that he is equally experienced in gay anal sex without even trying it.

How well can the character... do what? Take part in bondage interactions?

I think it requires certain experience, and the same could be said about group.

[livingforever]

I believe there is a difference between sucking and licking in case of oral for example, with very different techniques, poses and erogenous zones. Also I believe there is the same difference between straight sex and using equipment like strapons and dildos for lesbian sex.

And if you want it that detailed, you'd need a lot more skills, not just for gender differenciation.

I think it requires certain experience, and the same could be said about group.

Please phrase a question starting with "How well can the character ..." related to the BDSM skill.
Have fun!

[Xela]

I'd prefer same skills for gay and straight modified by traits.

bdsm should be a skill if we are to have it in the game.

[Xela]

"How well can the character

submit or exsersize restraint, simulate pleasure or pain or inflict just the right amounts of them depending on being on the receiving or dominating 'end'?

I can ask someone with a better command of English language than I to describe bdsm skill if your're having trouble with it. To me it seems like a broad and comlex practice that does require a lot of skill and practice to be done properly. Possibly more than any of the sex skills we have in the game.