Author Topic: Characters+traits concept  (Read 13279 times)

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Offline DarkTl

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Re: Characters+traits concept
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2015, 02:03:49 PM »
Living, I'm not sure if you really think that Briggs Myers' model will cover all personality traits, or that we can use traits like "Judging" in a hentai game without dozen of coders. If you do, then I'd suggest you to focus on tagger  ::)

Also, the point of new system is to have less traits, not more. The model will force us to create even more traits to reflect all facets of the personality, since it describes them strictly separately.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2015, 02:42:30 PM by DarkTl »

Offline DarkTl

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Re: Characters+traits concept
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2015, 04:35:40 PM »
Ok, let's summarize stuff.

1) We have 10 main archetypes (a good number). A character can have 1 archetype. It's not exactly always true, but usualy it is more or less. If we'll have major issues, we always can make 2 per character in the future.
Also there is mindless "archetype", but it requires special coding and it's a part of ST mostly, so we can add it later if needed, or handle it differently. Even if we add it, it simply will look like no archetype at all in gui.

2) We have 6 sets of modificators. They describe mutually exclusive parts of personality that are easy to notice and to use in the game. They are not mandatory, unlike archetypes. It's possible to add more, but it's much harder to use them in the code. For example, there are very rude characters, like Tayuya from Naruto. So in theory we could use traits for politeness. But in fact, refinement is politeness too. And we also cannot afford to write all dialogues three times (polite, rude, normal version).

3) We have flags. Combat Training/Adventurer/Assassin/Magic Gift can be easily replaced by skills, it's up to Xela, if he wishes to. Some flags will be a part of base races.

4) I'm not really sure how else to describe body. I guess we could use stuff like skin and hair color as flags for customers, but there are too many possible variations, I think.

5) Sex traits were OK already. Can't say I want to add something. Again, in theory there are different views on sex, but in a hentai game with brothels we hardly can afford morality of this kind.

Now I'll think about traits invisibility. And I probably have to make custom icons for archetypes by myself, I doubt it's possible to find decent ones.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2015, 04:42:37 PM by DarkTl »

Offline Xela

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Re: Characters+traits concept
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2015, 04:46:01 PM »
I am not sure what you mean by modifiers here. Personality types don't need to be anywhere near perfect.

Keep it simple, we allow possibility of modding for unique characters.
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: Characters+traits concept
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2015, 04:47:28 PM »
Anyone can be optimistic or pessimistic, for example. It's not tied to archetypes. They also have cool effects that I want to keep.  I expect some of them to be useful for ST too.

Basically, modifiers matter only in special, uncommon cases, and they carry effects too. Archetypes matter all the time.
In terms of coding we should focus on archetypes, and make checks for modifiers only when we want to.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2015, 05:03:20 PM by DarkTl »

Offline livingforever

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Re: Characters+traits concept
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2015, 05:42:57 PM »
Hi!
Living, I'm not sure if you really think that Briggs Myers' model will cover all personality traits, or that we can use traits like "Judging" in a hentai game without dozen of coders. If you do, then I'd suggest you to focus on tagger  ::)
That sounds kind of rude. Not only do you discredit very widely accepted psychologists, you're essentially saying "mind your own business and do your job" to me.
I'm sure you didn't mean to be offensive, but I still wanted to point this out.

1) We have 10 main archetypes (a good number). A character can have 1 archetype. It's not exactly always true, but usualy it is more or less. If we'll have major issues, we always can make 2 per character in the future.
[...]
2) We have 6 sets of modificators. They describe mutually exclusive parts of personality that are easy to notice and to use in the game.
I don't see why this is better than 16 archetypes (always mutually exclusive) without modifiers, based on psychology instead of mangas.

Then again, what you proposed is a lot more cleaned up than what is currently in place and I don't want to complain about improvements too much.
Have fun!
« Last Edit: January 04, 2015, 05:44:33 PM by livingforever »

Offline DarkTl

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Re: Characters+traits concept
« Reply #20 on: January 05, 2015, 05:22:17 AM »
I have a feeling that you didn't think much about how are we supposed to actually use psychology traits after we will add them.

The model was created for real people, not manga characters. It doesn't have an analog for yandere, trust me. In fact, it was created not to describe people accuratly, but to help in choosing a profession.

There are others, more detailed systems. But because they are detailed, they require much more traits.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2015, 06:00:46 AM by DarkTl »

Offline livingforever

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Re: Characters+traits concept
« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2015, 11:00:53 AM »
Hi!
I have a feeling that you didn't think much about how are we supposed to actually use psychology traits after we will add them.
How did you intend to use your 10 archetypes? The 16 personality types can be used the exact same way.

The model was created for real people, not manga characters.
That is correct and I consider it an advantage. Real people have a much wider variety of personalities than manga characters.

It doesn't have an analog for yandere, trust me.
No, I don't trust you on this.
The definition of yandere always assumes a psychotic character, so it might fall out of the picture, but I guess one of the 16 archetypes has a characteristic similar to it, I just don't know which one because I haven't read the details of every single one.

In fact, it was created not to describe people accuratly, but to help in choosing a profession.
Partially true, but mostly wrong. It was created to generalize human personalities to a reasonable degree by using core characteristics where "reasonable degree" means not losing too many details.
Naturally, every kind of personality analysis is sonner or later used to find a suitable job. That's how the world works.

There are others, more detailed systems. But because they are detailed, they require much more traits.
Of course there are. There is always somebody that adds another detail and calls it more detailed, that's not the point. We need a reasonable amount of archetypes, it simply won't work without some generalization.

We need simple, almost stereotypical personality types that leave as little questions as possible.
This is exactely what it is.

If you don't want to bother reading up on the topic, please stop discussing it with me and go with whatever you think will work best.
Have fun!

Offline Xela

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Re: Characters+traits concept
« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2015, 11:45:33 AM »
This is exactely what it is.

Well, it's true in a way but it doesn't cover a lot of "unrealistic" personalizes. Many characters in the Anime are created to be fun, not resemble anything from RL. It doesn't really generalize towards comical, stereotypical and almost unnatural personality types due to being too specific.

It's close to impossible to tag Flare from FT for example using your suggestion. Same thing for Rei or even Hinata. Also it is even less known to players of a game filled mostly with Japanese Manga/Anime/Game characters than "dere" system.

Even if it in theory could work out, it's not even close to what we're looking for...
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Offline livingforever

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Re: Characters+traits concept
« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2015, 01:20:37 PM »
Hi!
Well, it's true in a way but it doesn't cover a lot of "unrealistic" personalizes.
That actually is a good argument.
I think there are realistic characteristics in every character, but if you prefer to cover the unrealistic attributes rather than focusing on the realistic ones then real psychology isn't for you.

And yes, it is definitely less known than manga archetypes (which is a sad fact in my opinion), but I ignored that fact since the player doesn't have to deal with it in any way.
Have fun!

Offline DarkTl

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Re: Characters+traits concept
« Reply #24 on: January 05, 2015, 02:39:57 PM »
I'm not sure how to handle hidden traits. Should they be hidden all the time, or it should be possible to make at least some of them visible?

Examples: you don't know boobs size until you see them, or you don't know about Clumsy thing unless you see an event when a girl falls because of it, or you can't see archetype unless you have at least 100 disposition.

@Xela, please close the old traits thread and stick this one.

Offline Xela

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Re: Characters+traits concept
« Reply #25 on: January 05, 2015, 03:13:41 PM »
I'm not sure how to handle hidden traits. Should they be hidden all the time, or it should be possible to make at least some of them visible?

Examples: you don't know boobs size until you see them, or you don't know about Clumsy thing unless you see an event when a girl falls because of it, or you can't see archetype unless you have at least 100 disposition.

@Xela, please close the old traits thread and stick this one.

Done!

It's a question of game-design. Same thing can be said for stats, you can't really know them to such a precision at all. I still don't know of you want to introduce this before or after the next release?
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: Characters+traits concept
« Reply #26 on: January 05, 2015, 03:19:50 PM »
I suppose the sooner, the better. ST depends on traits, so if you want to introduce it with the next release, then it should be based on this system.
Girls data files are not a problem here, they could be quickly adapted. Items are a problem, but they are a problem no matter what we do at this point.

Hidden part we can add after the next release for sure.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2015, 03:24:41 PM by DarkTl »

Offline Xela

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Re: Characters+traits concept
« Reply #27 on: January 05, 2015, 03:46:26 PM »
I suppose the sooner, the better. ST depends on traits, so if you want to introduce it with the next release, then it should be based on this system.
Girls data files are not a problem here, they could be quickly adapted. Items are a problem, but they are a problem no matter what we do at this point.

Hidden part we can add after the next release for sure.

I am not sure if ST should be based on traits, that sounds really complicated :( But I guess it can be.
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: Characters+traits concept
« Reply #28 on: January 05, 2015, 04:02:55 PM »
Difficulty of training is based on them, I think. Like shy dandere < confident yandere.

Offline Xela

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Re: Characters+traits concept
« Reply #29 on: January 05, 2015, 04:34:49 PM »
Difficulty of training is based on them, I think. Like shy dandere < confident yandere.

Not sure that I agree, but it will depend on a person who finally fills ST with content :)
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