General Discussion

[DarkTl]

It's kind of low on events thou and I got really bored with slavemaker long time ago, I've downloaded new version not to long ago but it seems the same with more girls...

You don't need to play, just take a look at "sex training" page 

For example, things like bondage probably need preparations even more than normal sex.

Fitness = Constitution?

Not exactly. It's kinda substat, like dancing for refinement.

Kinda goes without saying for advanced version. Do we need this for SimBro one?

Without it there is no way warriors can bring any profit, isn't it?

[Xela]

You don't need to play, just take a look at "sex training" page 

So more or less like trainings in Servants of Whip. Bunch of counters. We'll have this in advanced version since SimBro one doesn't have slave training.

Not exactly. It's kinda substat, like dancing for refinement.

Right, not needed for SimBro version either.

Without it there is no way warriors can bring any profit, isn't it?

Good point, we need to decide on how to handle this in SimBro version. Since there are not enough items, either let Warriors whore until advanced one or create some sort of Security Agency and rent them out for cash. (This can be used in advanced version later)

[GonDra]

I really don't see what warrior-girls would add to (the simple version of) the game.
I don't see any reason why you would need guardians for the brothels assuming that whoring isn't illegal in PyTFall.
The bouncers for the occasional rowdy guest would be pretty much included in the running costs of the brothel. (that reminds me: a finance screen would be nice)

On the subject of stats: The easier they are to distinguish the better.
I would replace charisma with beauty since refinement seems to mean almost the same.
Don't think we need a happiness stat, we have joy already.

Do we need a separate obedience stat from disposition? I had Interpreted it as respect or trust in the lower ranges and liking/loving you in the upper part of the spectrum.

[DarkTl]

or create some sort of Security Agency and rent them out for cash. (This can be used in advanced version later)

Maybe bounty hunters or old good racket then?

I don't see any reason why you would need guardians for the brothels assuming that whoring isn't illegal in PyTFall.

Why not? They protect your brothel not just from drunk customers, but from competitors and criminals as well and prevent slaves (and maybe prisoners) from escaping. Sounds too important to me to simply put it in the running costs and forget. Even if brothels are legal, I doubt this business is perfectly safe.

[Xela]

Maybe bounty hunters or old good racket then?

Why not? They protect your brothel not just from drunk customers, but from competitors and criminals as well and prevent slaves (and maybe prisoners) from escaping. Sounds too important to me to simply put it in the running costs and forget. Even if brothels are legal, I doubt this business is perfectly safe.

I really don't see what warrior-girls would add to (the simple version of) the game.
I don't see any reason why you would need guardians for the brothels assuming that whoring isn't illegal in PyTFall.
The bouncers for the occasional rowdy guest would be pretty much included in the running costs of the brothel. (that reminds me: a finance screen would be nice)

SimBro 1x has warrior types but they are handled same as prostitutes. I think best solution for now is not to include any behavior modifier based on occupation. If Rudy decides to code Arena, we'll add the whole warriors block to SimBrothel version and make occupation count. If not, we simply ignore occupation in SimBro version all together and any girl can do any job.

(that reminds me: a finance screen would be nice)

What does finance screen do? I understand that it is a reports screen but what should it display? I myself never really cared all that much for finance stats. Can you make a list with everything you wish to see there?

On the subject of stats: The easier they are to distinguish the better.
I would replace charisma with beauty since refinement seems to mean almost the same.
Don't think we need a happiness stat, we have joy already.

Do we need a separate obedience stat from disposition? I had Interpreted it as respect or trust in the lower ranges and liking/loving you in the upper part of the spectrum.

Right, so screw happiness, at least until the advanced version. I think we should keep charisma for now, it has been in every  SimBro version and decide if we want beauty as well in SimBro version.

Don't know about separation as we do not even have obedience right now. What would be a modifier to obedience without slave training(considering that interactions/girlsmeets are modifiers to disposition)? Any ideas?

[GonDra]

SimBro 1x has warrior types but they are handled same as prostitutes. I think best solution for now is not to include any behavior modifier based on occupation. If Rudy decides to code Arena, we'll add the whole warriors block to SimBrothel version and make occupation count. If not, we simply ignore occupation in SimBro version all together and any girl can do any job.

That is exactly my problem: there is no incentive, no added gameplay from having guards - girls or not. I simply think we shouldn't bother using our energy on them unless we have a something similar interesting from them as we get from the whores.
(Ok reading this again it sounds a bit harsh. Basically I want you to think if it makes the game more interesting and enjoyable or if it adds an annoying step for the player to keep your game flowing.)

What does finance screen do? I understand that it is a reports screen but what should it display? I myself never really cared all that much for finance stats. Can you make a list with everything you wish to see there?

The bare basics would be just a simple message how much profit you are making, but it would be nice to have a clean list of the income and expenses for each of the players Brothels. (something really fancy would be a variable telling you how much each girl brings in and costs over the whole game.)

Right, so screw happiness, at least until the advanced version. I think we should keep charisma for now, it has been in every  SimBro version and decide if we want beauty as well in SimBro version.

Isn't charisma basically part of refinement as it describes beauty that stems from the way a person acts? Anyway I wouldn't add beauty as an additional stat.

Don't know about separation as we do not even have obedience right now. What would be a modifier to obedience without slave training(considering that interactions/girlsmeets are modifiers to disposition)? Any ideas?

Ah sorry, wasn't clear there: That was supposed to be an argument against obedience since I think it would be basically another stat for the same thing from my perspective.

I am not sure if I explained myself understandably this time it is kinda late.

[DarkTl]

if it makes the game more interesting and enjoyable or if it adds an annoying step for the player to keep your game flowing.

You have a point, i'll give it some thought. Still, I don't think we should completely forget about security, we just need to make it interesting.

[Xela]

That is exactly my problem: there is no incentive, no added gameplay from having guards - girls or not. I simply think we shouldn't bother using our energy on them unless we have a something similar interesting from them as we get from the whores.

Well, if you can rent them out as security for others, there is your added game play. I can make a new location, there you can find a number of jobs like security escorts or bounty hunting, how many days those jobs would take and how much they would pay. You keep 50% for providing organization, order, safe place for girls to stay, heal and rest (base of operations, like your brothel or some other building we may add later). Each of these jobs has a minimum requirement.

I was planning to code this into the advanced version, simple version is supposed to be 'simple' In any case, it's not very important right now. We need more information, like how long advanced logic is gonna take to code in and what's Rudi wants to code next (if anything at all), so I will simply stay away from behavior based on occupation until we have more information.

The bare basics would be just a simple message how much profit you are making, but it would be nice to have a clean list of the income and expenses for each of the players Brothels. (something really fancy would be a variable telling you how much each girl brings in and costs over the whole game.)

All three are possible, exception would be quests, dates and events I think because including those, while possible, would prolly take to long.

I wasn't planning any kind of finance screen at all but I agree that it can be very useful, so lets make a decision as soon as possible:

- Profit made on Next Day: Goes without saying.
- Clean list of expenses per Brothel: Workload: I expect 5 - 10 hours at least because I did not prepare a game for this from the start. I doubt that this will take more than that thou, maybe less. Also there I will do this in small bits as I advance the logic so it will be a nice distraction every now and again.
- Girl Stats: If quests and items are to be included here, I expect this would take a while, functions also would have to be written for modders so they would not have to relay data themselves. One bonus: Balancing out a game would be a WHOLE lot easier.

Isn't charisma basically part of refinement as it describes beauty that stems from the way a person acts? Anyway I wouldn't add beauty as an additional stat.
Ah sorry, wasn't clear there: That was supposed to be an argument against obedience since I think it would be basically another stat for the same thing from my perspective.

I am not sure if I explained myself understandably this time it is kinda late.

Ok, beauty and obedience are out until the advanced version at least.

[Xela]

Workmap for v0.2 - v0.4 (Advanced logic and rudimentary texts)
This is not the same as building screens or coding in specific parts, many areas of the code have to be addressed so I though writing a plan to follow would be productive. I especially wrote it this way so I have to go back to the same functions over and over again after adding new things to the game, this may take a bit longer but there should be less bugs in the code.

1) Brothel Advertising

- Enabling, displaying and applying effects. Done 40%.


2) Brothel Updates

- Enabling, displaying and applying effects. Done 60%.

3) Jobs

- Adding striptease.
- Improving rest
- Allowing Costumers to choose girls beneath their caste if they are pretty or if costumer has a very high libido.
- Generally improving Whore job, more events based on stats

*Cleaning needs to be added
*Guarding/Hunting will be discussed farther on forum

4) Traits

- Adding about 10  traits to the game and add condition checks vs those traits to all jobs and special effects on next day.

5) Stats

After the discussion on stats is finished on forum, add those to the game and add checks during jobs and events for new stats.

* Don't forget luck and checks vs luck.
* Don't forget intelligence and it's effects.

5a) After Traits and Stats are more or less finalized, write a complete modding guide on how to create events and quests and system that will allow overriding default interactions and events with custom once.

5b) Add 3 or 4 new locations.

5c) Finalize items and their effects.

6) Adding Dark's suggestion for shopping during Rest and my idea on drug use as discussed on forums. Adding drug's 'body + spirit' destruction method to girls class.

7) Adding record keeping system and create screen to display the info.

8)Testing

- Try running the game for a couple dozens of days and re-balance advanced logic.

9) Improve all screens if Overhao creates Graphics or reuse existing stuff to make all screens look at the very least 'acceptable'.

10) Add rudimentary texts and events to girlmeets and wrap up rudimentary interaction if noone has done so already by then.

11) Create Mission system and code in at least 15 missions.

12) 1st major test-phase.
 Release a preAlpha to figure out bugs + imbalances.



I will be adding to this as I remember more and more details on what has to be done and we farther discuss the topic in here. If you can think of something I forgot, I'll add that as well. Seems like a lot but not so long ago the stuff that has been coded in already seemed impossible for me to do so I am neither worried nor afraid, I've already figured that the best way is just to start writing code as time allows and see the game grow and advance.

I will not be able to code for two or three days but I will be checking in to kill spambots and check on the thread.

[DarkTl]

Xela, what about whoring legality in PyTFall? In wm, for example, brothels seem at least semi-legal, if not worse.

[Xela]

Xela, what about whoring legality in PyTFall? In wm, for example, brothels seem at least semi-legal, if not worse.

I figure they are just legal, it's hard to imagine a government that would oppose prostitution but not oppose plain slavery at the same time.

Security (in advanced version at the very least) will still be required to counter unruly costumers and potential attacks from competition.

[DarkTl]

If everything you do is legal, then you actually can go to city guards if you have major problems with criminals or even escaping slaves. I mean, if player doesn't want to bother with personal guards or can't afford them yet, it shouldn't be a problem.

However, while casinos and banks irl can go to police too, they prefer to use private security service to prevent problems when they start to arise rather then replace police by it.

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If player is law abiding and, for example, someone has attacked his girl, he could go to guards, after a few days they (with a certain probability) will catch that bastard and he will pay with his money and freedom. Girl might need medical attention though, and if she has medium or huge scars after the attack, you can buy some potions to heal them.

But if player is going to forcibly enslave girls, attack competitors and commit other crimes, he can't rely on city guards help anymore (at least for free), and if he becomes inveterate criminal himself, city guards can only provide to him free food and room with lattices for a few years. So he definitely will need personal guards then.

[CherryWood]

Hi, I’m back. I played with renpy a little and you were right, it took less than a day to do something like tifa quest or the question example. And most of the tutorial stuff doesn’t look complicated at all either. With my zero Python knowledge, I still have hard time figuring how to connect that to actual game, but it’s a beginning.

Is there something I can help with now?  I mean, until we get to 5a), something easy that don’t require coding.
Or I can just go back to collecting pictures for new girls or improving ones we have (Haruhi...), it can’t hurt to have more.
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About security – if you looking for something dangerous
- even if brothels are legal, it doesn’t mean that state will be eager to protect you, so WM style underground competition is still viable
- religion – both nasty and real, just look at history (I can imagine few events/missions for that)
- some sort of anti-slavery extremists ?
It’s still hard to explain why you want to use your precious girls as common security and not just hire some strong thugs for that. But it’s fun, so screw logic (same for cleaning)
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Libido/nymphomania - How will that work? I mean, I would expect a girl with low libido to be unhappy if she gets too much sex. Will there be a way to limit number of customers she will serve per day or something?   

Character/temperament – I would really like to see this stat in use. It should lover general obedience and be a little counter-productive sometimes, but if there will be something when it's useful, it can add value to other measures to get a girl do what you want, like disposition.

Conversation skill - Is it included in refinement?
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I would like to suggest a few traits, but please, where is that file for that again?

[DarkTl]

It’s still hard to explain why you want to use your precious girls as common security and not just hire some strong thugs for that. But it’s fun, so screw logic (same for cleaning)

Btw, some time ago in some other thread there was a proposal to use male characters (like Naruto himself) for "safe for work" things like security.

[Xela]

Conversation is included in refinement, I don't recall Naruto for security but I dislike that idea.

@CW You need to be at least a little bit more specific with your ideas for stats. I think SlaveMaker approach is best for now, they've started small, with limited amount of stats that were implemented in a simple way and later, after game was released and you could get a feeling for gameplay, adjusted and added new stuff.

Game balancing in Alkion does not exist so I've never had to deal with this topic, I figure it is impossible to get right on the first try or even to get it near being right, so step by step approach seems like the best thing for now.

I think it will be like this:

Code base - Try - Rebalance - Try - Rebalance - etc.

Same for stats and interactions and their effects. If game feels plain or counter intuitive, instead of just rebalancing, we'll think of a better system to handle stats and traits or/and add new once.