General Discussion

[DarkTl]

Finally finished one of those huge random girlspacks. 1500 pics/317MB 

[Xela]

- I've added a way for everyone to create their own testing setups. Our old setup is in the attached file, if you still want to use it.

[DarkTl]

I'm currently fixing sprites everywhere, since before the main priority was tagging. I figured how to qualitatively and effortlessly remove white borders from sprites in gimp (select by color all transparent area -> invert selection -> reduce selection area by 1 pixel -> cut and past it in a new image).
It won't take long, I've done almost the half of it today.

I also updated tagger.

- fixed another typo, because of it "kiss by girl" tag didn't loaded from names inside tagger.
- fixed an error that might appear when you delete a picture inside mask sorting mode.
- improved checks for color panel. After you open a folder with pics, every time you change tags the panel around the Save button turns red. After saving changes it turns green again. Now it works properly with all tags flags.
- added text field that shows full file name in case if you need it, but it's too long to fit into file list box. You even can copy text from it. Editing it will give you nothing (and will break nothing too).
- added new option to mask. Generate Mask button generates mask depending on currently selected tags and writes it into the mask field. Thus, you don't need to remember tags anymore to use mask.

[DarkTl]

Ok, sprites are clean now. In my db in the file with links to packs all rar files are new ones, with fixed sprites. 7zips didn't needed cleaning, so they remained.

[Xela]

Oki, I know that there are some artifacts here and there but it doesn't bother me enough to update the packs.

Are you going to tackle the ST next? Or do you want to rework the mobs? I think I can write new code for creating mobs through (mob/other)-class traits tonight if you want to mess with content for them next week. Otherwise, I'll keep looking at jobs/buildings/classes trying to form a future-proof code structure in my head.

[DarkTl]

Yeah, it's amazing how easily you can remove all artifacts even in gimp if you dig deeper.

Mobs need classes too, maybe less advanced, but still. I don't think it's wise to write classes for them before they are 100% ready for girls.
So it will be ST.

[CherryWood]

If the BG is white or solid color, and the sprite have an outline or dark colors, "Color to Alpha..." usually gives better results then cutting in my option.

Finally finished one of those huge random girlspacks. 1500 pics/317MB 

It's good!

[DarkTl]

So, about our ST...

- Everything you do there you do via next day interface. Because of it you don't feel personal involvement at all, like you do in pretty much any other ST game. It's almost like some customer does the training and not you or even your assistants.
- This is especially noticeable with rewarding/punishing stuff. In JoNT you can do it on spot, here you need the whole day to scold. Must be a very long scolding...

Not sure what to do there. At very least there should be differently looking (looking, not working) system for ST, and only assistants should use next day for training, while MC has his AP for it.
If we gonna use flags/traits instead of special stats, we need more anyway. So far we have traits for being obedient/disobedient lately during training, broken trait and traits for special training items.
We need to reflect all ST psychology (something that Eliont refused to do back then btw) either in special traits or slave-only stats, I don't really care how. Actually, since we have skills now, we can add some slave-only skills.

- obedience that is not tied to character stat. In fact, I think we should use character stat like temperament in JoNT.
Traits that show how obedient a slave was lately don't show how well she is trained in general. And broken =/= well trained all the time.
I'd say slaves could use levels of training, just like our whores used to have levels of, well, whoring.

- hate is negative disposition, love is positive. We lack fear, however. Cruel training rises fear in JoNT that helps with training in the short term, but not as good as dedication aka high disposition in the long term.
I suppose we need flags for fear, and with enough flags they gain fear traits which help with obedience but give some penalties.

- Everywhere in ST games there are stats that show the level of lust. In general they used for stuff like sex acts checks (like even temperamental slave will agree to do group with max lust) or for sex tortures.
Even if we drop stuff like morality from SM or level of perversity from JoNT (since we assume that there are no such things as christian morality or too low perversity in the game world with countless sex slaves  ), I need something, anything for lust anyway.

- Difficulty of training. I think every trait should have a hidden value showing how difficult/easy to train such a slave, plus/minus optional, possibly random value set in json. Before even beginning to train difficult slaves you need high enough slave training skill. Or it will be long and painful experience for both sides. A sufficiently large difference means that any successful training is impossible at all.

- There are run away events already coded in our ST that are supposed to "fight" against level of security in dungeon.
We have Restrained traint that prevents escaping, but I feel like it's too simple to equip one item and forget about running away forever.
I think there should be various items that discrease battle stats, and the less battle stats, the less are chances to try AND to succeed in escaping. This way you will have no problems with weak slaves, but powerful ex-warriors still will need guards.

- We need a separate screen (not as a part of next day screen) to check how ST goes.
Summing up, moar coding is needed, so if you Xela still not sure how to code classes and brothels, you can help with ST too 

[DarkTl]

I think I know how to do almost anything. There should be an open system of flags and special hidden traits. So if I need fear, I make in some json fear traits, I make fear flags, I set how many specific flags every trait needs, I set or remove flags during training, and when there are enough flags, the game gives traits that require those flags, like 3 fear flags and 2 rape flags for Fear lvl 1. When the number of flags decreases, the game removes those traits.
Summing up.
- Training without next day buffer for MC himself.
- Conditions and rules that you set upon slaves. At very least we can use stuff from JoNT, like where to sleep and what to eat. Such stuff changes flags every day even if you don't train a slave. Rules from SM need a life simulation for a start, though we already could allow slaves to go shopping if you give them money (nothing wrong with it if they are well trained) or to autoequip themselves.
- Open system of flags and special hidden traits.
- Better running away option that depends on battle stats. And running events should be possible not only during some training, but every turn, providing that a slave really wants to escape. If possible, it should be a function that I can freely change too, like set what kind of stats and traits make slaves run, and how likely.
- Difficulty of training figthing against slave training skill every time you do something with slave.
- A separate screen for ST with statistics. And option to talk to the slave to find out (depending on her hidden traits) how does she feel.

[Xela]

how does she feel.

Yeah, that's what we should care about... slaves feelings about stuff...

Summing up, moar coding is needed, so if you Xela still not sure how to code classes and brothels, you can help with ST too 

Nope, that's Thewlises module so he's the front-man on this one

***
- I think if you read through all of his comments and posts in ST thread, there already should be a reward/punishment/training matrix for the MC (through interactions menu, taking training sessions from JSON, they were called one-off trainings or something like that). But I figure best course of action is like the last time, you need to request what you require and he should create a tutorial-example on how to do it.



===***===
I've already posted in detail about ST and how I want to handle it. SM/JoNT have nothing to do with slave training/psychology/rl and etc. Doesn't mean that those are bad games, just means that they had to be built in that way to be playable.

Wishy-washy BS where you feed candy as rewards or gradually unlock talking/kissing/sexual positions or when trainer master cares about "morality" and "nympho" stats and sends slave to work in church or sleazy bar before to "mind" the mood or stats and/or all other crap from either of the games........ Feel free to add it/try to make it good but keep it to ST module so none of it makes it outside. Only fully trained slaves leave it because I do not want to deal with it during gameplay.

So: This one is 100% up to you. My proposals were rejected by you and lamoli + you're creating content and Thewlis is writing the code so my thoughts don't carry any weight here anyway

[DarkTl]

Yeah, that's what we should care about... slaves feelings about stuff...

You can ask characters about it in pretty much any ST game, including wm, because you can't directly see any hidden stats behind characters "feelings". If you suddenly think that we don't need even basic interactions with characters or hidden stats, think again.

- I think if you read through all of his comments and posts in ST thread, there already should be a reward/punishment/training matrix for the MC (through interactions menu, taking training sessions from JSON, they were called one-off trainings or something like that).

I tried, it's very confusing, especially since he often uses terms from the game code I have no idea about. He also uses terms and  theoretical descriptions without working examples in training_example_json.
I can only rely on our ingame stuff that already works, and we have only schools. Via interaction menu you currently can only punish/reward, but nothing more.

And doing it for every girl via interactions instead of one general screen for dungeon with all available for training characters is super clunky.

My proposals were rejected by you and lamoli

No, that never happened. I was so busy with some other module (can't remember which one) that almost didn't paid attention to your discussions. And even after Thewlis coded stuff I still was busy back then. Just because he coded it similar to JoNT doesn't mean that this is how it will work. The main thing that he coded is hidden traits + flags for them. We just need to move all settings into json and improve the system. After that pretty much any ST system can be build based on them.

[Thewlis]

I tried, it's very confusing, especially since he often uses terms from the game code I have no idea about. He also uses terms and  theoretical descriptions without working examples in training_example_json.

Please, if I'm using terminology you don't understand or if I've explained something badly, tell me.

Training without next day buffer for MC himself.

Simply add a label to the training and it appears under the interactions screen/menu instead of the training one. Can move them to the new screen as well/exclusively once its made. Works on AP for girl and MC, so its still limited unless we add custom "x amount of girls = 1 AP logic".

Open system of flags and special hidden traits.
The system as it is will work with any flag/trait you tell it to. The only thing you might need to do is create a PytFlagProxy in python. This class allows for relative setting of a flag (+/- 1 instead of setting to 1), specifying min and max values that the training can't exceed, and allowing for giving/removing a trait based on what level the flag is at.

Currently the trait is added at 1+ and removed at 0, and only works with 1 trait. I can add better support for multiple traits and different levels to trigger at easily enough.

Better running away option that depends on battle stats. And running events should be possible not only during some training, but every turn, providing that a slave really wants to escape. If possible, it should be a function that I can freely change too, like set what kind of stats and traits make slaves run, and how likely.

Currently running away goes:

• Did the training return a "RUNAWAY" flag?
• Calls the pytfall.ra.can_escape function
• The girl successfully runs away if their "chance to run away" + positive traits is under "location security" - negative traits
• Then the function either starts the BE (will probably need updating as the BE has changed since I wrote the function), or uses s_conflict_resolver (the function for deciding brawls/attacks during serving and whoring jobs).

The "chance to run away" is either:
- The results of the mod_runaway function, if it exists.
- The percentage of security upgrades bought, if the location implements UpgradableBuilding.
- The amount of guards working in the location over the total amount of girls, if the location has an actions list and "Guard" is in it.
- The amount of warriors in the location over the total amount of girls.
- Runaway is guaranteed.

The "location security" is random * (2 - location.security_mult), where security mult is the normal brothel security function.

The positive and negative traits are currently item traits only. They are calculate as the amount of items supplying the trait (wrist and ankle manacles, etc) over their "training effect maximum". A property added to the trait class during creation called "trEffMax". Its defined in the json that creates them.

The s_conflict_resolver function works by taking an average of the guards BE skills and the girls BE skills and checking them against each other. Better average wins.

I can add support for non-item traits and selection of other stats/skills that can be included easily enough. Making it a chance every turn instead of once per day is possible as well.

Difficulty of training figthing against slave training skill every time you do something with slave.

Easy enough to do. Add a property to the lesson called "difficulty" that is checked against the teaching skill. Can add into the default BAD_TRAINER logic too.

A separate screen for ST with statistics. And option to talk to the slave to find out (depending on her hidden traits) how does she feel.

Yeah, if you want direct interaction with lots of slaves quickly, this would be a good idea. Shouldn't be too hard to make. Probably will do a girlslist / interactions mash-up to start off with and grow it from there.

Conditions and rules that you set upon slaves. At very least we can use stuff from JoNT, like where to sleep and what to eat. Such stuff changes flags every day even if you don't train a slave. Rules from SM need a life simulation for a start, though we already could allow slaves to go shopping if you give them money (nothing wrong with it if they are well trained) or to autoequip themselves.

Currently no good place to put this, though the new training screen would probably be a good place for it.

[DarkTl]

We probably should move to ST concept thread. I spent the whole day thinking about ST and writing a big post there.

[DarkTl]

Well, until you guys code something for me like classes or ST, I'm going to work with gifts for a bit.

[DarkTl]

Pushed better lines for gifts. No thanks to literally dozens of so called "writers" who instantly run away at the mere mention of them for a whole year, lol. I would added a sarcastic picture here, but my avatar is more than enough in this case.

Now I want to change how gifts work. Currently, when gifts are tied to traits and occupations, every time we add a trait, a class trait or a gift, we need to analyse all gifts and traits again. That's a lot of work, and there will be more as long as we add moar stuff.
Instead I want to use numerical values showing gift's purpose and application. Some gifts are more practical, others are more like for decoration, also there are food and drinks, etc.
So every trait will have propensity to one or more types of gifts. Sum of all propensities will show us what gifts a girl likes or dislikes.