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Author Topic: <-- Archived --> **Traits Concept  (Read 34576 times)

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Offline Xela

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<-- Archived --> **Traits Concept
« on: June 15, 2013, 03:47:47 AM »
Traits Concept Design:

Traits will be created in XML.


Trait might fail without this field:

ID: Name of the Trait.
- Game is likely to crash if not specified.
- xml field:
Code: [Select]
id="Big Boobs"

Optional Fields:

Description:
- Defaults to an empty string.
- xml field:
Code: [Select]
desc="This girl really has knockers."
Temp: Trait has only temporary effect.
- Defaults to 0. (Effect is permanent)
- xml field:
Code: [Select]
temp='0'
Modifies stat values (current, max, min):
- Defaults to an empty list
- xml field:
Code: [Select]
<mod charisma = '10' />
      <max charisma = '10' />
      <min charisma = '10' />

Block: Blocks other traits while active.
- Defaults to an empty list.
- xml field:
Code: [Select]
<blocks name = 'Small Boobs' />
Effect: Does not currently do anything.
- Defaults to an empty list.
-


Notes:

- Traits are supposed to be more permanent than items so in this scenario:

Girl has 80 charisma current and 100 charisma max.

Case 1:
- Girls acquires a trait that raises her charisma by 20 points (Maxed out).
- Girl works hard on improving her looks and gains 10 more points (Still at 100 because of Max stat).
- Girl looses the trait, her charisma falls back to 80 points.
 
Case 2:
- Girl equips an item that raises her charisma by 20 points (Maxed out).
- Girl works hard on improving her looks and gains 10 more points (Still at 100 because of Max stat).
- Girls takes the item of, her charisma is now 90 points.

This is done by design in order to prevent chaos of traits being awarded/removed by every item and event and getting girls with a few dozen traits each (Block is another precaution)

- There is a trait related field in girl's XML called Absolute Block, that ensures that a number of traits can NEVER be awarded to a girl. There is no way to influence that through traits or items and the only way to clear that list is command in game's console or python script.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2015, 03:08:50 PM by Xela »
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Offline Xela

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Re: Traits Concept
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2013, 04:19:36 AM »
- Reserved -
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: Traits Concept
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2013, 10:41:41 AM »
I thought about Quick and Slow Learner traits from WM. If I remember correctly, they affect the amount of experience girl receives per each exp rewarding event. It's impossible to create them within the framework of existing traits system anyway, so maybe we could use effects for it eventually.

Offline Xela

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Re: Traits Concept
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2013, 11:06:54 AM »
I thought about Quick and Slow Learner traits from WM. If I remember correctly, they affect the amount of experience girl receives per each exp rewarding event. It's impossible to create them within the framework of existing traits system anyway, so maybe we could use effects for it eventually.

More traits... I was about to complain that we have to many already :)

By the way, Quick Learner is one of the most unbalanced traits in WM, if experience is going to be really meaningful in the game (already is to the point in Prostitute Rank system, we can prolly do without it. Otherwise it will trigger an effect...

Maybe I should code in leveling or effects tonight, was planning to put in a couple of hours, Roman is doing some work on Alkion as well. I've already fixed Inventory bug where a second empty page appeared in both games if the previous page (Inventory or Shop) is full.
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: Traits Concept
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2013, 11:35:04 AM »
Actually, it's not enough traits and stats for items  :D
I'm even starting to think we should give up on head slot, at least until we'll have BE with spells and resistances. Moreover, some capes and armors have hoods, so maybe a separate head slot is overkill in general.

Offline Xela

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Re: Traits Concept
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2013, 11:44:41 AM »
Actually, it's not enough traits and stats for items  :D
I'm even starting to think we should give up on head slot, at least until we'll have BE with spells and resistances. Moreover, some capes and armors have hoods, so maybe a separate head slot is overkill in general.

Your call, I am fine with not having a headslot.
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: Traits Concept
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2013, 11:55:27 AM »
Then please remove it from the game. If players will want them badly, we always can release a dlc with head items when the game will be ready  :)

Offline Xela

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Re: Traits Concept
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2013, 11:57:23 AM »
Then please remove it from the game. If players will want them badly, we always can release a dlc with head items when the game will be ready  :)

Oki, I'll do that in an hour.
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: Traits Concept
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2013, 12:46:10 PM »
As for Learner traits, I have no idea what percentage they have in WM, but I'm pretty sure +5% and -5% won't hurt the game balance.
Besides, these effects might as well be part of Genius and Retarded traits respectively. And Genius trait is hard to get (at least via items).

Offline rudistoned

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Re: Traits Concept
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2013, 04:44:30 AM »
So, currently traits are used to represent any of the following in the game:

Magic talent -> an ability the character was born with and could not learn

Virgin -> an attribute the character was born with and could not learn

Long hair -> an attribute the character aquired without effort

Big boobs -> an attribute the character was either born with or aquired through surgery (if the techlevel/availability of magic in pytfall allows that)

Scars -> an attribute the character aquired after birth

Courtly demeanor -> an ability the character learned through training

Fighter -> a profession  the character learned through training

Lesbian -> a sexual orientation

Caught a Cold -> a disease temporarily affecting the character



I think it would be easier to talk about game concepts if traits were not used to describe almost everything.

Offline DarkTl

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Re: Traits Concept
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2013, 05:12:48 AM »
Magic talent -> an ability the character was born with and could not learn
Not true, there is a very rare item that could give this trait.

Virgin -> an attribute the character was born with and could not learn
Yup, that's very temporary thing in this game, so could be a feat or even effect  :D

Long hair -> an attribute the character aquired without effort
We have various pics and don't have an artist, so things like hair length or color are out of question.

Big boobs -> an attribute the character was either born with or aquired through surgery (if the techlevel/availability of magic in pytfall allows that)
Nope, no surgery. This is a permanent trait.

Scars -> an attribute the character aquired after birth
Yup. You could turn them into feats or effects if you want to, it doesn't matter.

Fighter -> a profession  the character learned through training
Nope. Profession is occupation. This trait describes physical and mental training character has in the past.

I think it would be easier to talk about game concepts if traits were not used to describe almost everything.
If you want to suggest another trait concept, be my guest.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2013, 05:25:50 AM by DarkTl »

Offline Xela

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Re: Traits Concept
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2013, 05:31:16 AM »
We have various pics and don't have an artist, so things like hair length or color are out of question.

Yeah...but still, nothing short of an army of artists would work on what we're planning anyway :)

Yup. You could turn them into feats or effects if you want to, it doesn't matter.

Maybe effect, feat is not likely to work here...

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Offline rudistoned

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Re: Traits Concept
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2013, 06:38:32 AM »
Not true, there is a very rare item that could give this trait.
Alright. My intention was to say that there will be abilities or attributes a character could be born with, but could never learn.

Yup, [virginity]'s very temporary thing in this game, so could be a feat or even effect  :D
I don't know if it could be an effect, but it can't be a feat. Feats can be learned. You can't learn to be a virgin. (yeah, restoration magic, magic items and artifacts, divine intervention, ... you know the drill).

We have various pics and don't have an artist, so things like hair length or color are out of question.
Long hair is one of the traits currently in the game. Is that an oversight or do I misunderstand what you are saying?

Nope. Profession is occupation. This trait describes physical and mental training character has in the past.
Maybe we could rename those traits? "Fighter" or "Assassin" sound like occupations to me. How about "Combat training" and "Former assassin"?

If you want to suggest another trait concept, be my guest.
I suggest we give traits a more specific meaning. Let's see which categories of properties our characters currently have:

Stats
Character attributes describing the physical, mental(?) and social prowess of the character in areas that need detailed modeling.

Skills
Abilities that can be learned and that need detailed modeling by the game.

Traits
* Abilities that can be learned and that do not need detailed modeling by the game.
* Attributes that can be gained without significant effort
* Attributes that can be gained, but require effort
* Abilities or attributes the character was born with and could not learn
* Sexual orientations
* Temporary effects


Since we implement traits in XML, it is difficult to let them do more than modify character stats. We should keep that in mind.
Xela already said that temporary effects will not be modeled as traits. Learnable abilities are feats or skills. Abilities or attributes the character was born with, for example being an alien, should do more than modify stats. Those are hard to describe in XML, so they should not be traits. I propose we call them advantages.

Stats
Character attributes describing the physical, mental(?) and social prowess of the character in areas that need detailed modeling.

Skills
Abilities that can be learned and that need detailed modeling by the game.

Feats [proposed]
Abilities that can be learned and that do not need detailed modeling by the game. Many current traits are in this category.

Advantages [proposed]
* Abilities or attributes the character was born with and could not learn
* Sexual orientations

Traits
* Attributes that can be gained without significant effort
* Attributes that can be gained, but require effort

Effects [WIP?]
Temporary effects


So, based on this proposal traits would be character attributes that can be gained or lost and that can be modeled by modifying character stats or skills.


Offline DarkTl

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Re: Traits Concept
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2013, 07:03:14 AM »
Long hair is one of the traits currently in the game. Is that an oversight or do I misunderstand what you are saying?
I never created such trait, and the actual version of traits.xml in dropbox doesn't have it, you can be assured. We do have Long Legs though, but it's obviously even harder to get than big boobs.

Maybe we could rename those traits? "Fighter" or "Assassin" sound like occupations to me. How about "Combat training" and "Former assassin"?
Ok.

Advantages [proposed]
* Abilities or attributes the character was born with and could not learn
* Sexual orientations
I'm pretty sure vanilla WM has at least one item that change orientation, and if I remember correctly, Pytfall has 2 such items now  :)
But now I understand what exactly you mean.

However, I'm not sure about this part:
Abilities or attributes the character was born with, for example being an alien, should do more than modify stats.
What they actually could do except for various events and effects that could be coded even now without using additional Advantages category, since traits can trigger events and give effects (not necessarily temporary)? Or this is about traits sorting?
« Last Edit: June 23, 2013, 07:23:18 AM by DarkTl »

Offline CherryWood

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Re: Traits Concept
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2013, 07:30:48 AM »
I suggest we give traits a more specific meaning. Let's see which categories of properties our characters currently have:
Stats
Character attributes describing the physical, mental(?) and social prowess of the character in areas that need detailed modeling.
Skills

Abilities that can be learned and that need detailed modeling by the game.
We have skills? I mean, I know that we called some of the stats a skill, but is there a difference now?