<-- Archived --> (Exploration/Tiles Concept)

[Xela]

Just wanted to create a spot for questions and discussions about exploration. I've updated DB with a very fresh version since I had some time today to write some new code and wrap things up a bit. Simple battle tiles can be created in json format and loaded but I'll have to put those on the map manually for now (especially since we haven't decided for 100% what kind of map/maps we will go with).

[Xela]

--- Reserved ---

[DarkTl]

We always can take maps from other games, especially for alpha.

[Xela]

We always can take maps from other games, especially for alpha.

This would require to much work (matching those graphics to tiles) as well as per room graphic extraction from that game.

When you get back as well, I want to discuss map/tiles building. Basically we can go two ways, JSON or script, both have advantages and disadvantages. If you are up to constructing the whole map tile by tile in JSON yourself as you did with items/traits, I will code game logic required and leave the rest to you (updating the code as we go, same as we did with items). While you work on the exploration, I can start putting some girlmeets texts that CW found into the game.

I'll take a break for the rest of the day and resume work on map/exploration tomorrow if I feel up to it.

[DarkTl]

And what do you mean by script way then?

Basically, I do not mind to create maps, however I wonder if it possible to create complex maps without a map editor of some kind, especially since tiles have a lot of properties. I'm afraid my imagination and short-term memory are not good enough for purely text-based 2d modeling.

[Xela]

And what do you mean by script way then?

Code, instead of JSON/XML, plain code is used.

Basically, I do not mind to create maps, however I wonder if it possible to create complex maps without a map editor of some kind, especially since tiles have a lot of properties. I'm afraid my imagination and short-term memory are not good enough for purely text-based 2d modeling.

Would be a good memory training exercise then

Writing an editor is not hard but would prolly be to time consuming, especially before we see the "endversion" to current exploration system. If it sucks or gets boring to quickly, we may switch to something completely different in the future.

Also, just like with traits and items, tiles will have default values so not everything will have to be filled. Basically, I think that one large advantage of you designing the map in JSON is that you'll have something to do (since most items and traits are ready). Largest advantage of me doing it (without or with limited JSON) is that I can take a number of shortcuts with code that will make a good map for Alpha much faster.

Either way, loads of work remains to be done for the exploration system...

[DarkTl]

I'm back home today 

I think that one large advantage of you designing the map in JSON is that you'll have something to do (since most items and traits are ready).

Sure, it would be handy. It's not like I don't have something to do though, while you were busy with exploration I've finished another big pack.

But don't expect 40x40 maps without an editor from me. If you want huge maps, be my guest and use script way 

[Xela]

I'm back home today 
Sure, it would be handy. It's not like I don't have something to do though, while you were busy with exploration I've finished another big pack.

But don't expect 40x40 maps without an editor from me. If you want huge maps, be my guest and use script way 

Oki, I'll continue with scripting using JSON where convenient for now. I might need your help hunting extra resources when you have time.

[DarkTl]

I might need your help hunting extra resources when you have time.

Yup, let me know if you need something.

[Xela]

Yup, let me know if you need something.

When you have time, see if you can find a forest encampment background? I have some ideas for the entrance (couple of warriors to be recruited, events, quests, maybe a shop).

Decent peace of software btw: http://sourceforge.net/projects/tiled/

We might switch to something like that in the future.

[DarkTl]

That's one of those things that easy to imagine but hard to find. I've found several pics today, but not too decent ones. Look for camp folder inside forest section.

Decent peace of software btw

Screenshots look promising, especially the first one.

[Xela]

Screenshots look promising, especially the first one.

Yeah, it shouldn't be hard to replace the map with better graphics and tiles + a map maker. Maybe even a proper rpg engine, there is a good amount of code written for Tiled in python, we can use some of the logic and write custom displayables for renpy to load for graphics. All past 1.0.

[ninjinto]

One thing I'd just like to add: hobby developers seem more prone to making maps too big/complicated rather than too small/simple. What ends up happening is that they become a chore to walk through over and over, and a lot of the filler content serves no purpose. Homes you can't enter, fences that make you take the long way around, and a long slow path just to get from home to the next adventure spot.

It helps to think in terms of how long it gets from one point to another. Dungeons shouldn't be over extremely fast but they shouldn't be a tedious slog either. If it's a map you use many times, like a key town, then what you'd want is to have exits all over the place and close together so that getting to any destination is fast and simple.

One other common mistake in map-making: misleading exit areas. As a general rule bare patches should be reserved for actual exits; empty edges should be filled with something impassable like shrubs or water.

Also, make first and improve second. Trying to think of the *best* map often keeps people from getting any map at all early on due to indecisiveness. This applies to all aspects of gamedev; things can always start out crude and lacking then be refined later on.

[Xela]

We've decided to postpone exploration in favor of Arena so it will be a while until we have to address this topic, also right now the whole exploration code is a prototype similar to that of a rouge-like than rpg-maker like.