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Author Topic: Slave Training (ST) concept  (Read 26096 times)

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Offline lamoli

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Slave Training (ST) concept
« on: August 13, 2014, 02:02:38 AM »
There you will be able to track the current development of Approved ST concept and post for proposal should be agreed on to be updated in this first post
First of all keep in mind Devs does not want to over complicate the coding so adding 1 new stats/skill is not really welcomed but possible
If possible use stats/skills that are in game atm
As for traits.. if they have a ST value give a explanation on what they will affect stats/skill..
All suggestions for building upgrades or security upgrades involving ST are welcomed

( Main reason for thumb down is.. lots of scaling with other modules that arent in game atm are worked on ) so if your idea was not accepted try to think of a way to adapt it to current development concept


ST Concept

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What to you need to start being a slaver-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Location:
 well to start slave training you would need a dungeon in either special building or MC house.. why dungeon.. for base security reason.. and
 for MC walk laziness unless you want to spend AP moving from a building to another..

Gear:
 would need to have slave movement restraining gear

Security/Upgrades:
 basic cell to lock her up and room with minimum training tools and minimum or none ST guards/trainers
 so you would have to upgrade security everywhere.. train ST guards to take her from her cell to training room ( you or trainer do that if no ST guards )
 improving her cell security training room security and so on..

MC related:
 maybe have some self training in ST MC could learn from Pytfall general trainers or buying ST books in shops
 ( could possibly show that MC is able to train slave if he has a starting slave trainer trait learning it from trainers or books )

                                                                                                                       ------ IN DEVELOPMENT ------

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ST Stats/Traits used outside module-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stats:
 Obedience

Traits:
(NEEDS APPROVAL) wherent refused in first concept but neither accepted so possible candidates:

 MC action will be limited to his AP.. at start it could use 2 ap until slave vit is down to minimum ( going under will add a malus to her max daily vit regen ) but as you train her.. her con stat will increase making you able to use more ap before reaching her minimum vit ( old concept using resistance may not work atm )
 MC should have a cap he need to train/grow that prevents him to do some training ex:
 MC cha could increase obedience training rate or increase char breaking rate ( could aslo reduce slave char regen ) also could give you better price while buying selling slaves
 MC libido to lock max sexual training actions or MC con to limit physical interactions ( like punishments )
 MC trait that would increase over time using breaking slave training action ( making him more efficient to brake future slaves ) need to find a trait name
 MC trait that would increase over time using obedience slave training action ( making him more efficient to make slave obey for future slaves ) need to find a trait name
 MC trait that would increase over time using teaching stat to a  slave training action ( making him more efficient to make slave learn stats for future slaves ) need to find a trait name
 MC trait that would increase over time using buying/identify a  slave ( making him more efficient to buy cheaper and chance to identify some hidden girl stats/traits on future slaves )
 MC trait that would increase over time using selling a slave ( making him more efficient to sell future slaves for profit ) need to find a trait name
 MC trait that would reduce damaging the slave your training ( making him having the best result doing minimum damage ) need to find a name for that like able torturer
 
 Combined ones:
 MC breaking/obed training could be merged as 1 trait like ( slave trainer ) could also reduce dmg done on slave if you abuse her too much ( or make a separate trait for that )
 MC buying/identify/selling slaves ( slave merchant ) would reveal parts oh her hidden stats/traits depending on rank, damaged slave would sell for less of course..
 MC stat/job related training.. maybe need unique trait ( like ponygirls trainers in some other games ) up to you to decide

                                                                                                                       ------ IN DEVELOPMENT ------

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------What will make your girl willing to run / suicide-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Escape:
 from start she would want to run/escape
 would need special slave outfit/gear to prevent her from running to some extend then rest would be with ST guard and building containing holding cell security option
 could daily trigger a even checking her current obed+obedience related factor and if failed to meet a minimum for the trigger. then start the escape event
 she could have a chance to remove parts of her restraining gear.. then would have to evade/fight ST guards then pass/counter building security
keeping her on drugs outside training sessions could reduce the chance ( at a cost on your pockets or materials )

Suicide:
 From start she woulnd have gived up on living just yet..
 could use joy to determine her willingness to live since mood isnt an option atm.. abusive mental action on training would reduce her joy making her more willing to suicide
 would need the praising/rewarding option when she doesnt resist a training giving her some joy.. or general talk encouragement else her joy could drain too fast
 of course could limit encouragement on daily basis or 1 time per day or MC cha stat base limited
every day trigger to start suicide event if she fail joy check ? wearing some slave gear could reduce her suicide options.. coulnd bite her thong if wearing ball gag.. and so on..
she would have to remove parts of her slave gear preventing her to suicide.. also if chained to a wall it would restric her running into a wall breaking her skull
keeping her on drugs outside training sessions could reduce the chance ( at a cost on your pockets or materials )

                                                                                                                       ------ IN DEVELOPMENT ------

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Training (NEEDS APPROVAL)parts of it wherent refused in first concept but neither accepted-----

Breaking: ( break that tough shell/pride/attitude of her's )
 
    Talks: ( needs to find topics making her lose her will/character ) psychological DMG effect reducing her Character but reducing her Joy
               Explaining her situation..
               Telling her no one could find her here..
               Telling her you always wanted to have so fun with a girl like her..
               
     Actions: ( needs to find actions making her lose her will/character ) physical DMG effect reducing her Character and energy with possible hp loss
                Feather torture..
                Candle wax torture..
                vibe/rotor... ( aka pleasure torture ) could be used using ap and drain a certain amount of char each time or used on chaining her to a wall making her lose more daily char
                                    over time ( could reveal nympho trait )
                Force her to lick your boot..
                Force her to..

     Items: ( make her wear things that would shame her.. limited option since she could wear parts of salve outfit )
                Cat ears ( head )..
                ass plug ( misc )..
                nightmare orb ( amulet )
                existing slave gear..

     General Rules:               
                Rule to make her call you Master.. ( Master could be ok but could use something more breaking oriented as Master is used for obedience already )
                Rule about her orgasm.. ( forbid her to make her lose character ) well SM types could do it with candle wax torture, sensitive types with feather torture
                Rule about sleep conditions.. ( bad sleeping condition to teach her her place ) could impact joy and energy/hp recover
                Rule about food.. ( restrictive.. need her character to go down ) beware of hp/con loss if used on long periods

Obedience: ( now that she's willing to listen make her obey your orders )

    Talks: ( needs to find topics making her increase her obedience with you ) psychological DMG effect increasing her Obedience but reducing her Joy
               Ask her who's her daddy.. if its not you.. punishment...
               Ask her her name.. if its not pig( or something else you defined ) punishment...
               
     Actions: ( needs to find actions making her increase her obedience with you ) physical DMG effect increasing her Obedience but reducing energy with possible hp loss
               Ask her to lick your boot..
               Ask her to.......

     Items: ( make her wear things that would make her dominated limited option since she could wear parts of salve outfit )
                gag ball ( head )..
                bondage ropes ( misc )..
                mind control orb ( amulet )..
                existing slave gear..

     General Rules:               
                Rule to make her call you Master..
                Rule about her orgasm.. ( forbid her to make her obey ) need more thinking on that 1 would need to expand actions first atm could use SM types again
                Rule about sleep conditions.. ( bad sleeping condition to teach her who's the master ) could impact joy and energy/hp recovery
                Rule about food.. ( restrictive.. need her obedience to go up ) beware of hp/con loss if used on long periods

Job related: ( now that she listen and obey make her do something useful )

      training course ( of course it can be refused if girl obed isnt high enough or traits goes against it or arch type against it then girl would need to be punished to gain obed or if not punished lose obed )
                will focus on targeted job and will increase those stats or add only job related traits if any exist for that job ( ex; service could add  barmaid.. maid.. waitress.. )
                could add a x% resist on learning that stat for every 100 stat reached ( or decide other number )
                ex : service training..  will increase service/con ( maybe should only use sub or do that training to get service/con without sub job bonus success )
                sub service : maid will increase service/con/agy and will give a chance to give trait maid with a small x% ( that x% increase with how many time you took that training course )
                sub service : barmaid will increase service/con/int/cha/agy and will give a chance to give trait barmaid with a small x% ( that x% increase with how many time you took that training course )
                sub service : waitress will increase service/cha/int/agy and will give a chance to give trait waitress with a small x% ( that x% increase with how many time you took that training course )
                     
                for whore it would train her cha/con/ref/sex skill witch could reveal hidden traits like nympho
                stripper.. no subs to expand on so will increase the stats cha/con/strip/agy
 
     Talks:
                encourage.. could boost temporarily the stat you gain for any job you want to train (could boost morale)
                talks making her reveal traits,,,

     City jobs:(may teach her skills the basic in real working conditions but would have to be obedient to some degree to do then and always accompanied by you/trainers/ST guards)


     Items: ( make her wear things that would increase her joy/job performance with less or no slave outfit parts)
                various joy items..
                various job related items..
                existing slave gear..

     General Rules:( less abusive than in other training phases will focus on making her learn the desired job and would use a carrot rather than a stick..)               
                Rule to make her call you ( whatever )..
                Rule about her orgasm.. ( still possible to forbid her but for the libido to get sex with or for whore training )
                Rule about dressing conditions.. ( make her wear something to improve hey joy/training job treated bonus but keep in mind not too much if going for strip job )
                Rules about cleaning.. ( oriented to make her gain cleaning experience while improving her training condition  )
                Rule about sleep conditions.. ( oriented on good sleeping condition this time to improve joy and willingness to learn job )
                Rule about food.. ( less restrictive based on feeding her well to get joy )

Punishments: ( whenever she break a rule, refuse action, refuse talk,.. )

Rewards: ( when ever she follows a rule, accept action, accept talk,.. )

Could add cleaning at all stages to reduce dirt..
could add cooking rules at all training stages.. could cook her meal even if its crap or cook for you or for personel reducing their cost and hers (gaining obedience) or service (gaining job skill on last phase )and would give her tool to help her escape
could get opposite effect if trait ex: SM on all kind of restrictive rules or punishments.. might adapt the training for her to pleasure/rewards ( lol )
could possible make slave go chubby/fat if fed too much without exercise ( would be a selling factor on selling her to market )
Could use Dirt to improve training.. or reduce her morale ( the more dirtier it becomes the higher to chance she could get sick )

                                                                                                                       ------ IN DEVELOPMENT ------

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

General stuff:
- Assistant we should simply call trainers. Should always be a free girl I think. ( too bad i liked the idea on personaly training a slave then turning her into a assistant/trainer with skills you would define)

(NEEDS APPROVAL) wherent refused in first concept but neither accepted so possible candidates:
- Race might give bonus or penalty to training but we will see that when in place
- Id like to add her a mood factor but could be done with joy ( she would accept training more easily and with better result if in good mood but would have to be char broken first )
  opposite could be true if angry at you
- traits revealing should be unlocked using relevant training like ( ex sex training would unlock nympho ) or using relevant talk related options ( like asking girl if she likes her condition )
  randomly revealing a trait with relevant text reply from her ( could use what she likes/hate too ) need to expand talk options
- stats revealing hmmm.. after training that stat a x number of times ? or using relevant talk related options ( like asking girl if she likes her condition ) randomly revealing a stat with
  relevant text reply from her ( could use what she likes/hate too ) need to expand talk options
- damage done ( bruises/scars could heal over time ) might need a MC healing trait to make it go faster or medic/healer/matron girl job or even make a special girl to assist you on
  that or even use item
- using proper items/consumable/training action can boost breaking/obed training/stat training
- while char is reduced to a certain amount.. her obedience can be trained.. and when her obedience reach a certain nbr she could unlock jobs training
- Other than that type of slave captured/stan slaves should use randomly generated stats/traits witch are hidden from start
- some girls could resist some punishment forms like physical ones while receptive to verbal ones or would need to find her hidden trait blocking punishment then use the right action
  to make punishment work
- maybe use a training for etch stat so it woulnd only be 1 training to chose from .. could also have different name if used for specific job

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*New parts of whats written her are in pending for approval so can be removed at any time
« Last Edit: August 14, 2014, 08:29:43 AM by lamoli »

Offline lamoli

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Re: Slave Training (ST) concept
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2014, 02:03:17 AM »
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Interface (NEEDS APPROVAL)----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Building containing dungeon:
      Office room screen ( basic furniture.. drawers, desk, chair, could upgrade/add new items )
         book on your desk that will display slave/building management:
             - tab with list of slaves( portrait/name, basic training stats like HP/VIT/CHAR/JOY, indication showing at witch stage they r on .. breaking/obedience/jobs, suicide/escaping counts )
             - tab with daily costs for each slaves containing expense on ( food,gear maintaining cost/new gear price, consumable/drugs used,... )
             - tab listing personnel you have ( trainers/ST guards..  portrait/name,stats like HP/VIT/JOY, indication showing the function they r doing relevant to their jobs,, guard survey,, trainers train...)
             - tab listing personnel costs ( their pay, food, gear maintaining cost/new gear price, consumable/drugs used,.. )
             - tab managing upgrade in general for each rooms
             - tab managing security upgrades for each rooms
         drawers containing archives of slaves sold/not under your care anymore ( someone might find some use to it )
         door leading to stairs

      Stairs leading to dungeon gate/ST guard post ( old castle tower type turning down like going to the depths of hell itself )
         way to go to dungeon gate
         way to go to ST guard post

      ST guard post ( possible interaction with guards )
         view of upgrades/security upgrades graphically installed in that room mixed with BG

      Dungeon gate ( ST guard(s) on each side if any recruited )
         will graphically display guards/door upgrades for either general of security
         way to corridor

      Corridor ( dark corridor illuminated with torches )
         wait to visit girls in their cells
         way to training room
         way to trainers room

      Cells room
         will show the girl behind barres with wall parts on each side and upgrades inside the cell ( girl could be sitting on floor/standing depending of her status/condition )
         will contain more than 1 cell so need way to go to next/previous 1
         will display portrait/name and detailed information on girl

      Training room
         will show the girl wearing/not wearing slave/related training/punishment gear an BG would display some of the training/security upgrades
         will show the interface to chose the training phase you want to start with training options related to it

      Trainers room ( possible interaction with trainers )
         view of upgrades/security upgrades graphically installed in that room mixed with BG

need more thinking.. do comment if i missed something that would make it impossible to work..

                                                                                                                       ------ IN DEVELOPMENT ------
« Last Edit: August 14, 2014, 08:33:03 AM by lamoli »

Offline lamoli

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Re: Slave Training (ST) concept
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2014, 02:03:57 AM »
--RESERVED--

Offline lamoli

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Re: Slave Training (ST) concept
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2014, 02:56:12 AM »
Xela could you review the stat parts and comment witch has to be removed...

other than temp traits ( you wanted gone ) and permanent ones you didnt say a thing on the rest
well you let me chose to leave resist system or not.. lets not use it at this stage.. best to start with basics then could add later if needed

im waiting your approval on stats then add next part of concept i have

Offline lamoli

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Re: Slave Training (ST) concept
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2014, 03:20:51 AM »
About Sin/Virtue.. player will need to see the current lvl of it.. to know if he should punish or reward the slave so coulnd be a hidden flag.. maybe a trait that appears on every slave during their ST then hidden outside of it

( could use a range of -5 to +5 ) that way we could use adapted punishment
if too hard .. it will impact her joy..
if not hard enough .. it will increase her been spoiled
Spoil could be a trait with range of 0 to 5 ( will have impact on her obedience )

( thats Old Huntsman system )

Offline lamoli

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Re: Slave Training (ST) concept
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2014, 03:33:00 AM »
Proposal for the use of Refinement during ST..

other than CHARACTER that could be translated to temper/ego/pride.. we are missing a stat that would translate into ego ( her nature.. ) or pride ( he self esteem )
maybe REFINEMENT could be used as pride.. that way if she has starting refinement she would refuse sex/degrading acts in the last training stage where jobs related stats are trained
that way we could use CHARACTER for OBEDIENCE only.. and looks more ST like that way

of course once sex skills are trained she will have to follow the regular refinement training that nobleman s wants
or make slave whore work with lower class of ppl leaving the nobleman s to free girls that way no need to lock slave whore to rank 3
« Last Edit: August 13, 2014, 09:52:48 AM by lamoli »

Offline DarkTl

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Re: Slave Training (ST) concept
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2014, 03:44:34 AM »
I'd prefer to avoid showing virtue. It makes prediction of girls reactions too simple. At very least it should be semi hidden, like description or some line in dialogue instead of plain numbers.

Offline lamoli

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Re: Slave Training (ST) concept
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2014, 03:48:51 AM »
I'd prefer to avoid showing virtue. It makes prediction of girls reactions too simple. At very least it should be semi hidden, like description or some line in dialogue instead of plain numbers.

yes when i said trait to display it.. it woulnd mean numbers but texts
same for spoiling

also we could use Old huntsman way to deal with that problem.. only giving more details on if if revealed by magic
or going to see a npc to reveal it
« Last Edit: August 13, 2014, 03:52:08 AM by lamoli »

Offline lamoli

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Re: Slave Training (ST) concept
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2014, 03:56:27 AM »
wait you mean spoil or sin/virtue she committed ?

sin/virtue should be clear number or text explaining it.. else you coulnd use appropriate punishment/reward.. that would cause slave to lose joy or gain spoil if failed to use the right punishment degree

as for spoil.. yes should be text implying how far it did go without exact number or penalty on obedience
« Last Edit: August 13, 2014, 03:58:44 AM by lamoli »

Offline lamoli

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Re: Slave Training (ST) concept
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2014, 04:03:02 AM »
Also even with the exact numbers displaying sin/virtue.. you can chose the exact way to punish her but woulnd mean you had AP left to do it.. so even if you know how to do it perfectly it woulnd be possible every time

ex:

you have 4AP

you train her 1 time for breaking -1AP she refuse with 5 sin ( result of sin for that particular break training if failed )
need to punish her for 5 sin but that action will cost 2 AP ( stronger the punishment the more ap it cost ? need to define that.. )
she didnt lose joy or gained spoil/character since you punished her for hight amount but gained obedience ( maybe punishment could fail but need to define how if it does )

2AP left

you train her 1 time for breaking -1AP she refuse with 4 sin ( result of sin for that particular break training if failed )
need to punish her for 4 sin but that action will cost 2 AP ( stronger the punishment the more ap it cost ? need to define that.. )
as you dont have enough AP to punish her for the right amount you need to use lower punishment form
you punish her for 3 sin and that action cost 1 AP
failing to punish her for exact amount but less she will gain +1 spoil
but wounld gain character or lose joy sine you punished her and wherent too hard on her.. also punishing her would still give some obedience
....

if you didnt keep enough AP to punish her sin at all.. she would gain character and would lose some obedience
or if she pissed you refusing and used a punishment too hard for her sin she would lose joy and gain some obedience

of course those parameters would be different for obedience training or job/stat training

so rather than hide even partialy sin/virtue.. hide the training action sin potential
over time player would remember the sin potential tho ( maybe put a range on that as well like ex: 2-4 for a certain training action )
that way player may or may not fall short on AP to use right punishment and it wouldnt be so easy to apply right amount
« Last Edit: August 13, 2014, 04:48:01 AM by lamoli »

Offline lamoli

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Re: Slave Training (ST) concept
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2014, 04:36:23 AM »
same for virtue.. need clear numbers to reward it.. giving right number will give joy.. giving more would give spoiling/joy giving less might impact joy to some little degree
same as sin.. you could make a range on virtue gain for her good deeds making us spend different amount of AP to reward her
« Last Edit: August 13, 2014, 04:56:26 AM by lamoli »

Offline lamoli

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Re: Slave Training (ST) concept
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2014, 04:58:39 AM »
maybe talks to punish sin or reward virtue could be used without AP but limited to 1 per day use

Offline Xela

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Re: Slave Training (ST) concept
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2014, 10:52:10 AM »
*On stats:
I can't tell what reasonable other than the things I've pointed out already. It will become more apparent after we have some base.

**On training:
I thought the concept of "appropriate" punishment was crap in Valet Pletej. A girl that defies enslavement will never consider any punishment as being acceptable or appropriate not matter how we swing that mechanic.

I don' think there should be any actions that cost more than 1 AP during ST unless it's something trully unique and time-consuming.

There should be a flag set when she's saying no and a reset on punishment, effectiveness of any punishment should be stats/traits related). There is no reason that I see to try and quantify in what way she told you to go fuck yourself but if you want to have one, fine, I see no problem with that.
=====================================================

I've already said that my own system would have been more flags/counters based rather than based on stats and certainly not progressive like in SM/Valet (I've always believed that progressive approach was a crappy one).

You should start your concept not with the small stuff, what do you think on:

- What factors determine when a girl accepts slavery within a specific class (occupation)?
- Is the training progressive or flagsbased or some other option?
- How/When do we handle suicide/runaway options (based on the above)?
- What new stats/flags does the system require that will be relevant to PyTFall outside of ST module?
- What's the base setup of training a slave?

======================
I prolly forgot some other general things, but if you can have the above described, I think the whole thing will get a lot easier to discuss.
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: Slave Training (ST) concept
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2014, 11:35:54 AM »
Move insults from girlsmeets to ST as another way to train/punish them.
We can leave them in girlmeets as well (just because we can), but in ST they will be more useful.

Offline Xela

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Re: Slave Training (ST) concept
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2014, 11:43:38 AM »
Move insults from girlsmeets to ST as another way to train/punish them.
We can leave them in girlmeets as well (just because we can), but in ST they will be more useful.

Something like:
mc "I've told you to wash these plates, not break them you cloth eared bint!!!" :D

I didn't even know we had insults other than an empty cat... need to revisit girlsmeets soon.
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