Town Wards

[d31r3x]

I'd go for Ankh-Mopork. Resembles middle ages border cities between christian and muslim kingdoms, with the christian-muslim-jewish armonious mixture.

(of course, until the arrival of the Spanish Inquisition -when you less expect them). 

[DocClox]

Great point. There is a certain amount of pride that develops amongst people that surpass insurmountable odds to just eke out a living. They'd see outsiders as whiners that just need to get it or get lost. In this regard, there may not be much in the way of charity and social safety nets in crossgate. This could explain why there are so many strong willed girls in the whorehouse. (Iron will is a favored trait after all for girl creators) Survive by any means necessary.

Funny - I meant to say "don't have that sort of hubris", but I think we got to the same point either way

  On that note, why not add a part of crossgate that acts as a dimensional check in|out station. The fees would be exorbitant. (Something for the rich and powerful to play with) Simply because it isn't very easy (for the sake of this scenario) to create a stable portal to a specific place. So your "Free" girls are working towards that. Maybe even have a scenario where a girl leaves this way if she makes enough money and doesn't like you very much.

Hmmm... Cammy's script suggest that it can be done. It would make a good use for the big pentagram in Pentangle Square, I suppose ...

[edit]

I'd go for Ankh-Mopork. Resembles middle ages border cities between christian and muslim kingdoms, with the christian-muslim-jewish armonious mixture.

Which would do for me. I don't want to model it too closely on any fantasy city, but  Ankh-Mopork is close

[d31r3x]

By the way, Doc, could you tell me which drawing style is closer to what you've imagined (just the style, not the city structure)?

[DocClox]

The first one, I think. I like them both, but the first is much clearer, and clarity is going to be good

[d31r3x]

I agree. The second one is more "historic"; so, it is more technical and less good looking -I just have to check.

I'm working on some sketches and schemes. First one is a development over the existing plan, adding the keep and northern section of the city wall (I put some suggestions about zoning too). Drawing over the original plan proved useful as analysis of the current layout. Please note the presence of the keep 'hanging' over a cliff, and the relation betwen the keep and the temples (politics looks at religion, and vice-versa), then other minor powers locate themselves downhill till reaching slums.
 
The second one is some sort of evolution of the city model over the forementioned analysis. The town originated around keep (maybe an old wizard tower -the first attemp to seize interdimensional gates). At some point of history, there's some interaction between a rising nobility group and the old wizard that ends with peasants, servants, etc. settling around the new keep to serve the new masters. The town grows thanks to a flourishing trade of exotic artifacts. Charging the trade of goods with taxes and the need to defend their wealth forces the rulers to build the first wall. Years pass and the original noble family is gone, and the old town has grown outwalls till twice or three times its original size. The outer city is a shady place where wealth can live next door to misery, so wealthy nobles and honest merchants tend to settle in homes inside the first wall. At some point there's an armed conflict involving early firearms (maybe some tit canons too) and a new artillerywise-shaped wall is built, protecting slums and harbour. The city layout is shaped around the city walls and the hill, which causes a division in levels, with the keep on the highest and the slums and harbour on the lowest.

Oh, dammit, maybe I'm gone too far. Feel free to edit / point out / suggest. Need feedback badly.

[Zeus]

i like this Town map ^^



(got it in real... nice work!)

[d31r3x]

First time I see Ankh-Mopork map. Cool.

I can try to draw something like that (maybe some 'copy-paste' -not enough to have copyright issues, though).

[DocClox]

First time I see Ankh-Mopork map. Cool.

I can try to draw something like that (maybe some 'copy-paste' -not enough to have copyright issues, though).

It is a good map. Of course, it's just London rotated through 90 degrees and with some of the names changed (the Ilse of Gods is the Ilse of Dogs, for instance) but it's still a nice piece of work.

From the maps you posted, the first one was pretty much what I had in mind, less some interior partitions. The second one is more convincing as a city though. Something along those lines would do nicely, I think

[d31r3x]

Maybe too much partitions, as you said, Doc -and I was going for more... 

I worked a bit around sketch#2, made some structure develop and tested    textures / drawing styles / fonts / colours / res.





At this point, do you like the "new" starlike shape? prefer a more rounded one (like the original)? maybe a more 'organic-scattered' shape?

How many partitions do you think there should be? I was really into the 'level' division because it could be a game level division besides a mere heights / walls division (Acropolis-like, but less religious) -I mean: you start outwalls in the poorest slums at sea level, then you gain access to the first ring, and later to the high city. Maybe the point is not to sub-divide levels?

Besides that, if you think the model is ok (more or less) there's the ward location issue. I just made some general allocation of population types / social classes, and tried to integrate some elements you were talking about (not everyone, of course), but there's still much work on it.

P.D. Everyone can have his/her own opinion on the map thing, I'm sure DocClox (and myself) would appreciate any help.

[DocClox]

Maybe too much partitions, as you said, Doc -and I was going for more... 

 
Actually, I was thinking it needed a couple more to get the separate, isolated wards I wanted so I could place the wards in my list. I don't mind if there's room for one or two more. I've got some ideas about a temple quarter in particular.  And, if we're expanding things, probably somewhere to put an arena

Sorry, I'm not expressing myself very clearly at the moment, it seems

  At this point, do you like the "new" starlike shape? prefer a more rounded one (like the original)? maybe a more 'organic-scattered' shape?

     
The star shape is good. Crossgate is starting to remind me of the city in the Thief games. Which might not be a bad match architecturally, either.

      How many partitions do you think there should be? I was really into the 'level' division because it could be a game level division besides a mere heights / walls division (Acropolis-like, but less religious) -I mean: you start outwalls in the poorest slums at sea level, then you gain access to the first ring, and later to the high city. Maybe the point is not to sub-divide levels?

       
Ah, right. I see what you had in mind now. I weas thinking more of a network approach. Give me a bit and I'll see if I can do a daigram.

I'd like enough partitions to house all of the wards in the lead article, less Shambletown which is outside the walls, and Spark End which is just the far end of the merchant's quarter. A temple quarter would be nice. I'm not sure if an arena deserves its own ward or not. I know it had one in Oblivion, but I'm not sure it would work like that in practice.

        Besides that, if you think the model is ok (more or less) there's the ward location issue. I just made some general allocation of population types / social classes, and tried to integrate some elements you were talking about (not everyone, of course), but there's still much work on it.

         
Yeah. I like the way it's going

          P.D. Everyone can have his/her own opinion on the map thing, I'm sure DocClox (and myself) would appreciate any help.

Indeed. The more the merrier!

[edit]

OK, this is ore or less how I saw the wards connecting. Each of the connecting lines would need to be unlocked except for the green ones.

So there's an informal idea of levels there in that you need to control Pinchpenny Lane or Pentangle Square before you can move on Nobb Hill, but there's no automatic lateral access on a level.



Anyway, that's what I ws thinking. I don't regard any of this as set in stone at the moment.

I've got some more historical musings to set down, too, but that's going to have to wait. I'm needed in the garden, it seems...

[d31r3x]

Got the ward com net, I'll see if I can make it fit into a three level scheme. Personally I like the Arena district idea (TES fan myself), could be starting point for quests / missions or even grant new activities: Arena combat training, Arena gladiator competition (I think someone mentioned that in some other post...)

In the meantime, an artists impression of Crossgate from sea, at this stage of development:

[megamanx]

so sleaze street can access shamble town right away and pinch penny lane can access spark end right away

[Dagoth]

So then, for each area there would be 3 different access levels, right? "No Access" (completely unavailable), "Expansion Access" (can't access anything there such as shops other than buying buildings there, which leads to...), "Full Access" (can access everything here).
Owning a building in the area grants Full Access to everything there, along with Expansion Access for adjoining areas, except for green connections on your chart which also grant Full Access to that area.

Is that the general idea, or am I misunderstanding?

If that's the idea, we could have 2 alpha PNG color overlays for each section to indicated No Access (dark grey) or Expansion Access (green or yellow). For No Access we could simply not show any shops or buildings there or maybe show them under the color overlay (inaccessible), and Expansion Access could maybe show shops and such under the color overlay (inaccessible) and show buyable buildings on top.

[DocClox]

so sleaze street can access shamble town right away and pinch penny lane can access spark end right away

Yeah. I have Shambletown described as outside the walls, so it doesn't make sense in that case to stop the player from going there. On the other hand, I think there's a difference between being able to go there and operating there safely so (using Dagoth's terminology) I guess this would start with expansion access. Similarly for Spark end.

So then, for each area there would be 3 different access levels, right? "No Access" (completely unavailable), "Expansion Access" (can't access anything there such as shops other than buying buildings there, which leads to...), "Full Access" (can access everything here).
Owning a building in the area grants Full Access to everything there, along with Expansion Access for adjoining areas, except for green connections on your chart which also grant Full Access to that area.

Is that the general idea, or am I misunderstanding?

 
Spot on. The only difference is that I'd let the player access the facilities, but it would be risky. You'd get raided and be at a tactical disadvantage.

  If that's the idea, we could have 2 alpha PNG color overlays for each section to indicated No Access (dark grey) or Expansion Access (green or yellow). For No Access we could simply not show any shops or buildings there or maybe show them under the color overlay (inaccessible), and Expansion Access could maybe show shops and such under the color overlay (inaccessible) and show buyable buildings on top.

That sounds good. I'd thought about fogging out locked wards, but the two colour scheme makes more sense.

[d31r3x]

That sounds good. I'd thought about fogging out locked wards, but the two colour scheme makes more sense.

There's another option wich involves several png alpha files containing a particular ward each. Those act like layers over a general map slightly faded to white. The idea is that locked wards stay faded and moving cursor over them doesn't change anything. Unlockables are faded, but change to the png file view on mouse hoover. Unlocked stay unfaded even without the mouse hoovering over. Since I'm working on separate different layers for structure elements (walls, gates...), divisions (wards, districts, quarters...), background textures, and signs, text and objects (e.gr. Crossgate banner) everything is possible.

On the other hand, I have no idea about the exact degree of complexity when coding all this stuff together -so any coder's feedback will be appreciated.