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Offline DarkTl

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New image tagging concept
« on: December 12, 2014, 09:15:24 AM »
Here is the list of existing tags and their description. Red are main tags, green are minor tags.

* SFW: pictures with a girl doing nothing, or something insignificant that doesn't matter much; also without any sexual or nude content, ie Safe For Work.
- girlmeets: this tag states that a picture is usable for girlsmeets, ie meeting with a girl somewhere. Not every picture could be tagged with it, for example things like sitting on invisible chairs or lying characters probably should not have this tag.
- battle: pictures that could be used at arena, after exploration, etc. Ie when a character is ready for combat or for example has a weapon, but not actually fighting with someone.
- rest: pictures that depict resting characters. They could sleep, lie somewhere, drink tea, play a game (not a sport game, more like video games or chess).
- beauty: tag for beauty school and similar activities, like applying makeup or combing hair.
- etiquette: same for etiquette school and similar activities, like showing skill in, knowledge of or otherwise displaying high society behavior or an action that can be associated with it.

* Nude: pictures with any explicit nudity. For example, bikini and lingerie don't fit here as long as they are not transparent, topless does.

* Natural nude: only for cases when nudity is absolutely normal and very common for the character (usually androids or monsters like slimes).

* Battle_sprite - specific pictures that are used in BE, with characters ready for combat. They should be backgroundless.

* Portrait - characters portraits without backgrounds, ie head only. Widely used, ideally there should be 1 portrait per emotion if possible. Also ideally either clothes should be the same, or they should not be seen.

* Sprite - full sized pictures without background that suit portraits. Meaning that ideally there shouldn't be much difference in clothes between sprite and portrait pictures if portraits display clothes.
We don't need many, but we need at least one, preferably with neutral expression.

These tags could be used regardless of other tags.
Emotion tags:
Angry, confident, defiant, ecstatic, happy, indifferent, in pain, insane, sad, scared, shy, suggestive, tired, uncertain.
Emotion tags are not not mutually exclusive, often expression of the character is a mix of several emotions.

Places tags:
No bg: pictures with transparent backgrounds. Unlike sprites, these pictures could be unsuitable for portraits.
Simple bg: pictures with monochromatic and/or indeterminate background, usually it's pure white color or some abstract pattern.
Usually in both cases it's impossible to describe location, though sometimes you can say if it's indoors or outdoors.

Specific places:
*These tags are mutually exclusive.
- beach;
- stage;
- onsen;
- pool;
The difference between common and specific places is that latter ones can and will be used for events easily, and they are common enough (for example, arena could be useful too in theory, but it's way too rare).

Common places:
*Note that following tags are not mutually exclusive, unlike specific places tags.
- outdoors and indoors; you can use one of them almost always, and when you can't, it's usually no bg or simple bg.
Here tags system becomes a bit hierarchical.
For outdoors:
- urban: represents places inside of a city. It could be a street, a park, a market.
- wildness: represents places without any traces of civilization. It could be a forest, a cave, a meadow, even some old ruins.
- suburb: none of the above. Meaning that there are traces of civilization, like a road, a tavern or a small village, but clearly not a big city.
- nature: general tag that represents stuff like a lot of trees and plants. Ie urban+nature = park or garden, wildness+narute = forest or meadow.

For indoors:
- living: all rooms that look suitable for normal living, from bedroom to dining hall; even though one can live in warehouse, it's hardly normal.
- dungeon: pictures with dungeons/prisons/torturing rooms, ie anything suitable for bdsm stuff and slave training.
- public: clearly public places, from library to bar.

- Time: autumn, evening, night, winter. These tags are used to exclude obviously inappropriate by time pictures.

- Clothes:
Specific ones:
- lingetie;
- maid;
- miko;
- nurse;
- yukata;
- schoolgirl;
- sportswear;
- dog, cat, cow, bunny;
- armor;
- swimsuit;
- no clothes.

They are very easy to identify, they are very common and they are fetishes (more or less). No pony, they are too rare.
General ones:
- everyday clothes: usual, standard clothes for the character. There are characters that stick to one certain type of clothes most of time, like armor or maid dress, this is especially useful for them.
- revealing clothes: more revealing clothes than usual, if possible. Like miniskirt or shorts for example.
- formal clothes: clothes that are suitable for high society actions. It's usually some rich-looking dress.
- indoor clothes: clothes that considered absolutely unsuitable for outdoors in any case, like pajamas.
You can use both specific and general clothes tags for the same picture to describe it better if you find it suitable. For example school uniform could be more or less revealing.
You can use only general tags if non of specific ones is suitable.

Additional tags that should be used together with other clothes tags:
- ripped: when clothes are clearly damaged a lot. Could be useful for events.
- cosplay: any type of cosplay.
- transformed: for characters that can transform to some another form.

Action tags:
bathing (all kinds from shower to pool), cleaning, cooking, dancing, eating, exercising, fighting, gambling, healing, magic, musician, reading, sleeping, shopping, singing, sport, studing/reading, waitress, striptease (not just nude, but actually show it on purpose).

BDSM: bondage actions without a sex as such.
- leashed, restrained, suspended, whipped, spanked: these actions are quite common and useful for ST.
- tortured: suffers pain except whips and spanking.
- dominatrix: the girl is the mistress there, anything else doesn't matter much since such pictures are quite rare already.
- guy/girl/partner hidden/alone: if the girl is not mistress, then who is mistress/master. Or if she's alone on the picture.
- cumcovered: for case when during bdsm action girl is covered by it, but still without sex as such.

Masturbation: self-pleasure. *It does not exclude bdsm, sex and group, since it's totally possible to do it anytime and anywhere.
- vibrator, dildo, anal plug, anal beads, other toy, random item, tits vibrator, etc.: how it's going on exactly. It case of hand (foot, tail) non of these additional tags are needed. Note that vibrators are commonly used on tits too, so there is a tag for it.
- forced: for using with bdsm when character is forced to use a toy. Because sometimes they are not even during bdsm.

Normal Sex: any type of sexual activity with one partner.
- girl, guy: a partner.
- partner hidden: when you cannot see who's the girl's partner, or when it could be almost anyone.
Depending on partner's gender there will be different options available.
Sex to girl is what partner does to her. Perfermed by girl is what she does to partner.
In case of girl partner fuck ass and fuck pussy options mean strapon using.
- rape, restrained: how forced is it.

Group: group sex.
- one/two/three/more girls, one/two/three/more guys: amount of partners that actually busy with the girl. Those who fuck/fucked by someone else are not included.
- guy hidden, girl hidden: related to those characters above who busy with the girl, if at least one guy/girl could be considered as unrecognizable.
- bukkake: if you don't know what is it, you could call it multimasturblowjob, I guess.
- not main participant: means that the girl is not the main participant. Without this tag all or almost all fuck her, with this tag she's just another regular part of a group action.
- others masturbate: means that there are characters who look at the group action and masturbate because of it. While not being a part of it, ie too far for bukkake for example.
- rape, restrained: how forced is it.
- ass, pussy, mouth, hands, tits, feet: currently active body parts of the girl.

A universal tag: cum covered. For pictures where nothing is really happened right now, yet girl is covered by it, no matter her pose and clothes.

New Ingame Tags:
    new_tags_dict = {
    # Main Tags:
    'nn': 'sfw',
    'nd': 'nude', # Nude Main Tag (Used to be subtag)
    'nn': 'naturalnude',
    'sx': 'sex',
    'bs': 'battle_sprite',
    'po': 'portrait',
    'qs': 'vnsprite', # Used to be quest
   
    # Nude/SFW Subtags:
    'pr': 'profile',
    'pa': 'girlmeets',
    'pb': 'battle',
    'pc': 'rest',
    'pd': 'beauty',   
    'pf': 'etiquette',
   
    # Locations:
    'l1': 'no bg',
    'l2': 'simple bg',
    'l3': 'outdoors',
    'l4': 'indoors',
    'l5': 'beach',
    'l6': 'onsen',
    'l7': 'pool',
    'l8': 'stage',
    'l9': 'urban',
    'la': 'wildness',
    'lb': 'suburb',
    'lc': 'nature',
    'ld': 'dungeon',
    'le': 'living',
    'lf': 'public',
   
    # Emotions:
    'e1': 'angry',
    'e2': 'confident',
    'e3': 'defiant',
    'e4': 'ecstatic',
    'e5': 'happy',
    'e7': 'in pain',
    'e6': 'indifferent',
    'e9': 'sad',
    'e8': 'insane',   
    'ea': 'scared',
    'ec': 'suggestive',
    'eb': 'shy',
    'ed': 'tired',
    'ee': 'uncertain',
   
    # Clothes:
    'c9': 'lingerie',
    'c8': 'no clothes',
    'c3': 'indoor',
    'c2': 'formal',
    'c1': 'everyday',
    'c7': 'transformed',
    'c6': 'cosplay',
    'c5': 'ripped',
    'c4': 'revealing',
    'ca': 'armor',
    'ck': 'cow',
    'cj': 'cat',
    'ci': 'bunny',
    'ch': 'yukata',
    'cm': 'ninja',
    'cl': 'dog',
    'cc': 'maid',
    'cb': 'swimsuit',
    'cg': 'sportswear',
    'cf': 'schoolgirl',
    'ce': 'nurse',
    'cd': 'miko',
   
    # Actions:
    'a1': 'stripping',
    'a3': 'cleaning',
    'a2': 'bathing',
    'a5': 'dancing',
    'a4': 'cooking',
    'a7': 'exercising',
    'a6': 'eating',
    'a9': 'gambling',
    'a8': 'fighting',
    'aa': 'healing',
    'ac': 'musician',
    'ab': 'magic',
    'ae': 'sleeping',
    'ad': 'reading',
    'ag': 'singing',
    'af': 'shopping',
    'ai': 'studying',
    'ah': 'sport',
    'aj': 'waitress',
   
    # Sex Actions:
    # Masturbation:
    'ma': 'masturbation',
    'm5': 'randomitem',
    'm4': 'othertoy',
    'm7': 'titsvibrator',
    'm2': 'analplug',
    'm1': 'analbeads',
    'm3': 'dildo',
    'm6': 'vibrator',
    'm8': 'forced',
   
    # Cumcovered:
    'cu': 'after sex',
   
    # Group:
    'gr': 'group',
    'gg': 'ass',
    'gf': 'group restrained',
    'ge': 'group rape',
    'gd': 'othersmast',
    'gc': 'notmain',
    'gb': 'bukkake',
    'ga': 'girlhidden',
    'gl': 'tits',
    'gk': 'feet',
    'gj': 'hands',
    'gi': 'mouth',
    'gh': 'pussy',
    'g7': 'threegirls',
    'g6': 'twogirls',
    'g5': 'onegirl',
    'g4': 'moreguys',
    'g3': 'threeguys',
    'g2': 'twoguys',
    'g1': 'oneguy',
    'g9': 'guyhidden',
    'g8': 'moregirls',
   
    # BDSM:
    'bc': 'cumcovered',
    'bd': 'bdsm',
    'b4': 'suspended',
    'b5': 'whipped',
    'b6': 'tortured',
    'b7': 'alone',
    'b1': 'leashed',
    'b2': 'bdsm restrained',
    'b3': 'spanked',
    'b8': 'girl',
    'b9': 'hiddengirl',
    'be': 'dominatrix',
    'ba': 'guy',
    'bb': 'hiddenguy',
   
    # "Normal" Sex:
    'ns': 'normalsex',
    'p2': 'straight',
    'p3': 'partnerhidden',
    'p1': 'gay', # Former "les"
   
    # poses:
    's9': 'standing',
    's8': 'spooning',
    's3': 'missionary',
    's2': 'doggy',
    's1': '69',
    's6': 'scissors',
    's5': 'ontop',
    's4': 'onside',
    's7': 'sitting',
    'sb': 'restrained',
    'sa': 'rape',
   
    # Sex to character: (startswith 2c *To Character of the image)
    'sl': '2c hug',
    'sc': '2c analfingering',
    'se': '2c lickanus',
    'sg': '2c analtoy',
    'sf': '2c lickpussy',
    'sh': '2c vaginaltoy',
    'si': '2c anal',
    'sj': '2c vaginal',
    'sk': '2c kiss',
    'sm': '2c caresstits',
    'sd': '2c vaginalfingering',
   
    # Sex done by character: (startswith bc *To Character of the image)
    'sz': 'bc vaginalfootjob',
    'sy': 'bc analfootjob',
    'ss': 'bc hug',
    'sr': 'bc handjob',
    'sp': 'bc footjob',
    'sw': 'bc vaginalhandjob',
    'sv': 'bc analhandjob',
    'su': 'bc titsjob',
    'st': 'bc kiss',
    'so': 'bc deepthroat',
    'sn': 'bc blowjob',
    't6': 'bc toypussy',
    't7': 'bc caresstits',
    't4': 'bc vaginal',
    't5': 'bc toyanal',
    't2': 'bc lickpussy',
    't3': 'bc anal',
    't1': 'bc lickanus',

    # Time/Season:
    'z1': 'evening',
    'z4': 'winter',
    'z2': 'night',
    'z3': 'autumn'
    }
« Last Edit: February 03, 2015, 10:30:42 AM by DarkTl »

Offline livingforever

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Re: New image tagging concept
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2014, 02:48:23 PM »
Hi!
Alright, let's see.
First thing I noticed (something that I propably mentioned already): You're not introducing a new concept, you just made some changes to the tags. It doesn't make a difference for the topic, but misleading titles are never a good thing.

Anyway, since you did some cleaning up, here are a few problems that I still see:
  • it's up to pack maker
    Whenever this phrase applies it is generally a bad thing because it means that the tag is not distinct enough (e.g. beauty, etiquette, girlmeets, fashionable).
  • Quest - Your description says that there shouldn't be much difference to a portrait... so why is it there in the first place?
  • Emotions - I can't really see an obvious difference between confident and happy and between shy and uncertain.
  • Bunny, cat, cow, dog - All unified as cosplay, is it necessary to be more detailed?
  • Pyjamas, nurse, maid, sportswear, ... - Those essentially describe actions, not clothing, therefore the action tag should be enough (how a character dresses for the particular action isn't relevant, is it).
  • Actions - Redundancy with clothing, see above.
  • Sex equipment - Dildos and strapons are sex toys, sex toys are devices, devices are items. I don't think that a generalization hierarchy is how these tags should be handled.
  • Deepthroat - Very detailed and somewhat hard to determine for most pictures.
  • Group - Still has the problem that active and passive are being mixed together. Wether that is acceptable or not depends on how detailed you want to descripe the pictures on the front end.
Possible solutions:
  • 1 & 2: Remove or change the name. The tag name should reflect the content of the picture, not what it is used for (e.g. make-up instead of beauty, large profile instead of quest, etc.).
  • 3: Unify confident and happy as contented. Unify shy and uncertain as diffident.
  • 4: Remove, use cosplay instead.
  • 5 & 6: Remove the redundant clothing tags and describe it with the appropriate action tag instead.
  • 7: Either keep it general or make it detailed, a bit of both isn't good. I don't have a concrete suggestion though.
  • 8: Remove.
  • 9: Use a different approach for group pictures (for example on a per customer base) or accept the fact that group pictures can't be described in detail.
Have fun!
« Last Edit: December 12, 2014, 03:03:45 PM by livingforever »

Offline Xela

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Re: New image tagging concept
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2014, 03:31:21 PM »
I'd like to keep deepthroat.

Quest is meant to represent a normal vn type of sprite. There are no tricks to it really... it means full height, normal look as in clothing player can associate the character with.

This is not a new concept as living pointed out. We are looking to add bondage, group and slavetraining pics and emotions. We are also looking to add tags to make lookup process simpler and more convinient to coders and content creators by adding tags such as clean, nude, sexual, girlsmeets and etc.

There is sadly no example that we can follow as ours is the most comlicated tagging system I've seen or am aware of.
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Offline livingforever

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Re: New image tagging concept
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2014, 03:34:11 PM »
Quest is meant to represent a normal vn type of sprite.
Right, I remember you mentioned that before.
In that case it should just be called sprite. The battle sprite tag could be removed (just use sprite and battle instead).

We are also looking to add tags to make lookup process simpler and more convinient to coders and content creators by adding tags such as clean, nude, sexual, girlsmeets and etc.
While I do agree that those tags are useful, I think it would be best to ignore them until all other tags are done. Adding convenience tags later internally is very simple and not important before the rest isn't finished.
Have fun!

Offline Xela

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Re: New image tagging concept
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2014, 03:54:40 PM »
*We could rename nobg tag to sprite, it may even be sensible. The trouble is that our tags lookups work like a database.  Sprite by itself will return any picture that is tagged with sprite, so no distinction will be made between battlesprites and sprites. I can look into improving lookup process...

**Edit: Decided to let it be until this is actually required...
« Last Edit: December 13, 2014, 04:23:02 AM by Xela »
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: New image tagging concept
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2014, 07:45:23 AM »
You're not introducing a new concept, you just made some changes to the tags. It doesn't make a difference for the topic, but misleading titles are never a good thing.
It is a new thread about image tagging concept. I can't believe you actually want to discuss something as minor as another temporary thread's name.

   
  • Whenever this phrase applies it is generally a bad thing because it means that the tag is not distinct enough (e.g. beauty, etiquette, girlmeets, fashionable).
  • Quest - Your description says that there shouldn't be much difference to a portrait... so why is it there in the first place?
  • Emotions - I can't really see an obvious difference between confident and happy and between shy and uncertain.
  • Bunny, cat, cow, dog - All unified as cosplay, is it necessary to be more detailed?
  • Pyjamas, nurse, maid, sportswear, ... - Those essentially describe actions, not clothing, therefore the action tag should be enough (how a character dresses for the particular action isn't relevant, is it).
  • Actions - Redundancy with clothing, see above.
  • Sex equipment - Dildos and strapons are sex toys, sex toys are devices, devices are items. I don't think that a generalization hierarchy is how these tags should be handled.
  • Deepthroat - Very detailed and somewhat hard to determine for most pictures.
  • Group - Still has the problem that active and passive are being mixed together. Wether that is acceptable or not depends on how detailed you want to descripe the pictures on the front end.[/l][/l][/l][/l][/l][/l][/l][/l][/l][/l][/l][/l]
1. We cannot adapt pictures, so we should adapt tags somehow instead.
I'm not sure about casual/fashionable/formal tags too, at very least we need better rules here. But I simply cannot describe etiquette and girlmeet tags better. If you can write better descriptions, feel free to do so.
3. I can, they are used in my packs, you can look at them. Emotion tags are not mutually exclusive btw. In fact, they still don't cover everything (like madness, very common for yandere).
4. I guess. They are pretty rare anyway.
5. Not always. There are plenty of actions you can do in pyjamas or nurse outfit, not just sleep or heal. Usually sexual actions, but not always.
7. Device means something other than didlos and strapons, random item means things that are not designed for sex at all. If you have better names, I'll change it.
9. I know. But I have no idea how to handle it better than just ignore some details. It's not like I don't want to desribe them.

Sprites, battle sprites and no bg tags:
- I changed quest to sprite. Sprites should be visually compatible with portraits.
- Battle sprites are used in BE, and only there. Might as well use a special tag for them.
- No_bg pictures are not equal to sprites. There are even nude/striptease pictures without bg, you simply cannot use them everywhere, especially with portraits.




@Xela, you can close the old thread, just don't delete it. And stick this one instead.[/list]
« Last Edit: December 13, 2014, 07:51:01 AM by DarkTl »

Offline Xela

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Re: New image tagging concept
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2014, 08:09:50 AM »
@Xela, you can close the old thread, just don't delete it. And stick this one instead.

Done.
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Offline livingforever

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Re: New image tagging concept
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2014, 03:01:34 PM »
Hi!
It is a new thread about image tagging concept. I can't believe you actually want to discuss something as minor as another temporary thread's name.
1. We cannot adapt pictures, so we should adapt tags somehow instead.
I'm not sure about casual/fashionable/formal tags too, at very least we need better rules here. But I simply cannot describe etiquette and girlmeet tags better. If you can write better descriptions, feel free to do so.
No idea about etiquette because I still don't know what it's supposed to express.
Girlmeet is actually just a profile picture with attention focus on the player, so attentive or something similar would fit.

Emotion tags are not mutually exclusive btw.
That is a problem. Tags describing the same part of the picture with the same level of detail should always be mutually exclusive. That is not something that I just came up with, it's a psychological issue. If there's more than one choice you will almost never get usable results.
And yes, I did confirm that with your packs.

5. Not always. There are plenty of actions you can do in pyjamas or nurse outfit, not just sleep or heal. Usually sexual actions, but not always.
And in those cases it really matters what clothes the character is wearing?

7. Device means something other than didlos and strapons, random item means things that are not designed for sex at all. If you have better names, I'll change it.
It's not about the names, it's about the strange generalization.
The best thing would propably be to have a sex toy tag and an other item tag and remove all others.
Have fun!

Offline Xela

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Re: New image tagging concept
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2014, 07:58:09 AM »
!No idea about etiquette because I still don't know what it's supposed to express.
Girlmeet is actually just a profile picture with attention focus on the player, so attentive or something similar would fit.

These two are a bit offbase...

There are three approaches to tagging in games similar to ours:

*1 "Profile" pic and x amount of sex pics without tags (SimBro 1x, MisBro)
*Specific tags for each character (SM series, partly OW)
*Tags for each picture (WM, most SimBro games)

And than there is our system designed by Rudi that very thoroughly tags the pictures in attempt to pick the best possible option for each event... originally the lookup process was supposed to give a "weight" for every tag (default 100, no limits). I decided not to do that because that seemed difficult to code (at my skilllevel 2 years ago) and hard to debug so we went with simpler approach (I think I've described it already).

etiquette for example is a picture of characters showing skill in, knowledge of or otherwise displaying high society behavior or an action that can be associated with it.

It can be a very well (expensive) dressed character in a beautiful room, or character that shows courtesy, or a well dressed character having a tea from a nice cup and etc. These are used during etiquette training (skills in refinement) or during jobs that we do not yet have. This is a "base" tag that is enriched by other tags like mood, dancing, service and etc...

Girlsmeets we can prolly do without especially if we go with the "sex", "clean", "nude" prime tags. *Note here that we should prolly have no_cloth tag if we don't already have one.

That is a problem. Tags describing the same part of the picture with the same level of detail should always be mutually exclusive. That is not something that I just came up with, it's a psychological issue. If there's more than one choice you will almost never get usable results.

I am not sure that is true:

confident, defiant

angry, defiant

sad, scared

tired, uncertain

are in no way mutually exclusive. In fact, a very common picture is that of a tired and confident character after a battle has been won... We are not using this a lot atm so I am not sure how it will play out in practice. One thing I can tell that even a simple "sad", "happy", "indifferent" auto lookup I've added is working out really well. One can see girls mood just by looking at picture, it's a huge improvement already.

And in those cases it really matters what clothes the character is wearing?

ATM: No, writing events like that is something we cannot afford with dev team of our size. It's impossible to say what will happen in few years from now.
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Offline Xela

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Re: New image tagging concept
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2014, 09:29:21 AM »
Profile - when a girl does nothing, or something insignificant that doesn't matter much. Pictures that you usually can see in girl's profile every turn.
- beauty: tag for beauty school and similar activities, like applying makeup before a mirror; sometimes it can be used with profile tag, sometimes not, it's up to pack maker.
- etiquette: same for etiquette school and similar activities.
- girlmeets: this tag states that a picture is usable for girlsmeets. Not every picture could be tagged with it, things like sitting on invisible chairs or lying characters probably should not have this tag.
- battle - for pictures that could be used at arena, after exploration ,etc. Ie when a character is ready for combat or for example has a weapon, but not actually fighting.

We could review profile and girlsmeets tags...

Battle_sprite - specific pictures that are used in BE. They should be backgroundless.

Sprite - characters portraits without backgrounds. Widely used, ideally there should be 1 portrait per emotion. Also ideally either clothes should be the same, or they should not be seen.

battle_sprite is solid.

Sprite is a bit odd. It means the same thing as "portrait".

Quest - full sized pictures without background that suit portraits. Meaning that ideally there shouldn't be much difference in clothes between quest and portrait pictures if portraits display clothes.
We don't need many, but we need at least one.

Tags that could exist regardless of other tags.
- Emotions: angry, confident, defiant, ecstatic, happy, indifferent, sad, scared, shy, tired, uncertain.

- Places:
- beach;
- nature (meaning forest/meadow/anything else with plants and stuff, things park go here, since even when you can the difference, it's not very important in the game);
- wildness (caves, rocks, etc. ie anything outside of city that cannot use nature tag);
- living room (for all rooms that look suitable for living, and generic indoor for others);
- city (for urban outdoor pics);
- stage; this tag is pretty rare, but it will help to exclude generally unsuitable pictures that still could be used for jobs and events;
- generic indoor and generic outdoor for all others that are not suitable for above-mentioned tags.

Quest: (We wanted to rename this to Sprite?) Same clothes, preferably a normal haircut (most characters have one). Different basic moods are an options here but at least one with indifferent (no particular mood) tag should be there.

I should prolly auto-exclude everything except summer unless specified... Will try to look into it if this bugs us (hasn't so far).

Nature is a bit of an issue here... it doesn't seem to be useful at all as getting a picture of deep woods in the park is just as absurd as getting a picture of park in deep woods. Might be best to simply remove this and use backgrounds and quest-like tags instead.

*In fact... As I've recently displayed in SE, it's quite easy to create pictures from backgrounds + Quest-type pics for jobs as well. Getting a correct picture from tags is very, very difficult due to there being so few and them being very hard to describe properly (or rather requiring dozens of tags to describe locations properly). We need beach... we need indoor and outdoor and living room, city and stage I can understand even though I've in practice. The thing here is that I am not entirely sure that we'll have an instance when we will be able to use nature or wilderness instead of general outdoors. They are not specific enough...

- Clothes:
- armor, bikini, dominatrix, lingetie, maid, miko, nurse, pajamas, plugsuit, schoolgirl, sportswear, swimsuit are self-explanatory.
- exposed (not actually nude or topless, but not "safe for work" either),  ripped (when clothes are clearly damaged a lot), topless, nude (no or almost no clothes at all).
- cosplay: any type of cosplay, including animals.
- transformed: for characters that can transform to some another form with different clothes.
- casual, formal, fashionable: now these could be a bit tricky. It often depends on character and pack maker. For example, if some character has 95% images with maid clothes tag, then normal clothes that would be casual for other characters will be fashionable, and all those maid pictures will be casual+maid.

-Background:
- no bg: pictures with transparent backgrounds. Not all formats support it, currently we mostly use png.
- simple bg: pictures with monochromatic and/or indeterminate background, usually it's pure white color or some abstract pattern.

Action tags: bathing (all kinds from shower to pool), cleaning, cooking, dancer, eating, exercising, fighting, gambling, healing, wounded, magic, musician, reading, rest, shopping, singer, sport, studing, undress, waitress, striptease.

Clothes... I've suggested to create "primetags":

sex: Explicit Sexual Content
nude: Any explicit nudity (even a nipple showing), bikini does NOT fit here, topless does.
clean: Pic without any sexual or nude content.

If we do this, clothing "nude" tag will have to be renamed or primetag will have to be given a different name.

We're not doing cow, neko, pony and etc. here?

No "onsen" specific tag in actions or locations? Bathing seems to general... it's a popular option (working, resting in onsen).

Sex - any type of sexual activity.
- equipment: anal toy, dildo, device, random item, strapon.
- partner: one/two/three/more girls/guys, partner hidden.
- sex poses: 69, doggy, missionary, onside, ontop, scissors, sitting, spooning, standing.
- additional tag: deepthroat (only for blowjob actions).
- active/passive, fuck or be fucked.
- action type: anal/oral/vaginal/hand/foot/masturbation.
So if we have two phrases: 1)passive+female+vaginal+strapon 2)active+female+oral+vaginal, it means les action where the character is fucked by strapon while licking (somehow) her partner's vagina.

Group is basically any sex tag + more than 1 partner. Often it's difficult to describe resulting pose, so we avoid it.  We still could use sex action and zones tags to describe in general what's going on with the girl. Ie in case of double penetration we take vaginal+anal. If she also uses her hands, we throw handjob too.
In case of group actions it's enough to specify partners and used character's body parts. For example, three guys+vaginal+anal+oral.
Group pictures have one subtag: bukkake.
There is one general sex tag: cum covered. It requires no partner, and it's a universal tag, since almost anything could happen with the girl before she became like this. So it could be used in many cases if there is no a better picture.

For bdsm:
- restrained, suspended, whipped, spanked, they are quite common and useful for ST.
- leashed, quite common too.
- torturing, suffers pain except whips and spanking.
- forced orgasm, even though we could use restrained+ecstatic or something, it's not exactly the same, since it can be done without partners or even without restraining.

Your new sex approach seems absurd... I can't even begin to translate this into code:

Quote
So if we have two phrases: 1)passive+female+vaginal+strapon 2)active+female+oral+vaginal, it means les action where the character is fucked by strapon while licking (somehow) her partner's vagina.

"passive, active, female, vaginal, strapon, oral" so how in the world can you tell if passive should be applied to strapon, vaginal or oral? Same goes for active and same goes for strapon, who is being fucked with a strapon and how is impossible to tell.

Our sex tagging is very good... if you want, just improve on the system, don't try to replace it.

Group:
We need three distinctions here that are critical:
- Is character being taken by a group or is a part of a group taking someone else.
- Is it voluntary or not (when possible to tell).
- is it BDSM pic as well (just one tag, no extra description, cannot be BDSM tags in itself or subtags will come into conflict)
*I believe that we do no need to specify what a character is doing when being a part of a group at all. When being taken, only these are important: taken in ass, pussy, mouth, actively masturbating and if any of the member of a group are masturbating in the vicinity. The subtags you suggested will also be useful and can be used with other sex pics.


BDSM:

- torturing should be tortured.
Not sure we that we need forced orgasm.

Things to specify:
Is the character on receiving or dominating end.
Partner types (same system can be used as for sex)
I'd prefer a special tag if there is just the character present on the picture (because otherwise it would once again be required to exclude a lot of tags). *This can be automated through tagging software or through tags loading process (latter will prolly (very) slightly delay the game loading process).
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Offline CherryWood

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Re: New image tagging concept
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2014, 04:46:28 PM »
Well, I can agree with this tag set, it's very similar to the old one so that's easy for me (and I also don't think that we need to describe group pics in much detail)


I'd like to keep girlsmeet tag or something like that to allow select images more suited for girl in the city.

Maybe some sort of "taking a nap" tag may be worth it for more rest description, those pictures are quite common. On the other hand, "studying" could pass as "reading" on most pics (I have only one obviously study picture so far and its full of modern math books that doesn't really fit into the game anyway.)
« Last Edit: December 14, 2014, 06:18:44 PM by CherryWood »

Offline DarkTl

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Re: New image tagging concept
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2014, 03:38:07 AM »
Girlsmeets we can prolly do without especially if we go with the "sex", "clean", "nude" prime tags. *Note here that we should prolly have no_cloth tag if we don't already have one.
I'll take a look at my packs tonight to show you some profile pictures that are not entirely suitable for girlmeets.
We have nude tag for that.

Sprite is a bit odd. It means the same thing as "portrait".

Quest: (We wanted to rename this to Sprite?)
My bad, these are consequences of a typo  :)

Nature is a bit of an issue here... it doesn't seem to be useful at all as getting a picture of deep woods in the park is just as absurd as getting a picture of park in deep woods. Might be best to simply remove this and use backgrounds and quest-like tags instead.
That's the problem. Very often you cannot even say if it's a forest or a park. It's just some grass or trees. In fact, there should be a huge background if you clearly can tell what is it, and in this case it's better to cut it.
So we might as well use nature.

We're not doing cow, neko, pony and etc. here?
I don't know. Should we? I don't care about such things, and living suggested to use cosplay for all of them, so I did.

Besides, if we do animals fetishes, there are other fetishes as well, like miko or schoolgirl. And you just suggested to get rid of them and use sex/nude/safe tags. I believe we should adhere to a common policy here.

onsen
I guess it's common and specific enough, yeah.

"passive, active, female, vaginal, strapon, oral" so how in the world can you tell if passive should be applied to strapon, vaginal or oral? Same goes for active and same goes for strapon, who is being fucked with a strapon and how is impossible to tell.
You misunderstood the concept. I proposed to form independent combinations of traits that the game reads as a single whole rather than several separated tags. Even though our sex tagging system is good, it uses a huge amount of traits.
It will be harder to code though.

Is the character on receiving or dominating end.
I thought about it. You see, even though it's simple to imagine such pictures, in reality they are extremely rare. Same goes for dominatrix clothes tag, though they are a bit less rare than "dominating end" pictures.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2014, 04:46:13 AM by DarkTl »

Offline Xela

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Re: New image tagging concept
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2014, 06:25:04 AM »
I'll take a look at my packs tonight to show you some profile pictures that are not entirely suitable for girlmeets.
We have nude tag for that.

I know that there are plenty of those and if you want to add girlsmeets tag, I am all for it :) The reason I said that we prolly don't need one is that girlsmeets seem to be working fairly well atm.

We have nude tag that is related to clothing. nude prime that I proposed means not a sex or a clean picture. It is possible to get to with code (in most cases, not all, or at least not all cases without expanding and over-complicating lookup system) but it still will require an insane amount of database access and long and confusing code.

+ We can base tagging software off this and exclude tags or entire tag categories... so every pic would start with just three choices and unfold.

I think those three prime tags are worth the effort!

That's the problem. Very often you cannot even say if it's a forest or a park. It's just some grass or trees. In fact, there should be a huge background if you clearly can tell what is it, and in this case it's better to cut it.
So we might as well use nature.

Ok, but I still don't see how it's useful. If you don't know what to expect from a pic (farm, field, huge distant forest in the background, cleaned up part, messed up woods, deepwood and etc.) we cannot really use it in the game any better then generic outside... I don't mind if you want to tag it, just saying that I can't think of how we're going to use it.

.
I don't know. Should we? I don't care about such things, and living suggested to use cosplay for all of them, so I did.

Besides, if we do animals fetishes, there are other fetishes as well, like miko or schoolgirl. And you just suggested to get rid of them and use sex/nude/safe tags. I believe we should adhere to a common policy here.

Adhering to policies in game of this size is weird. We are very specific about sex pics and very vague (in comparison) about everything else. It's a positive thing when we can but there is no point in being religious about it.

Most games do the animal fetishes thing and miko/schoolgirl are different. It depends... if we're not planning to do this any time soon, we can drop it for now.

You misunderstood the concept. I proposed to form independent combinations of traits that the game reads as a single whole rather than several separated tags. Even though our sex tagging system is good, it uses a huge amount of traits.
It will be harder to code though.

How do you tag them? Same issue as I've described will arise during the tagging process. You'd have to store one set of sex tags for the pic, then another and maybe yet another afterwards... Living can translate them into tags we use now (and I would not have to change a thing) but interface for that might be confusing... you will also have trouble seeing how the image is tagged (you'd have to call some pop up window and view the combinations in use).

It's up to you... I don't believe this to be a good idea, in fact this seems a lot more confusing to me that what we have today. Also while I don't mind, any modder will have more issues with it due to being required calling one tag in the game while tagging with different tags in the software. *I have no desire to transform 4 tags back into one during the lookup process because that is absolutely crazy and useless btw.

I thought about it. You see, even though it's simple to imagine such pictures, in reality they are extremely rare. Same goes for dominatrix clothes tag, though they are a bit less rare than "dominating end" pictures.

Rare or not, they exist and may find their way into the game so we need a failproof process to sort them out so we don't get BS writing vs pictures scenarios.
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: New image tagging concept
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2014, 07:10:12 AM »
If you don't know what to expect from a pic (farm, field, huge distant forest in the background, cleaned up part, messed up woods, deepwood and etc.) we cannot really use it in the game any better then generic outside...
Not really, there are urban outside and wild outside at very least. So the picture can be used either  inside or outside of the city (or both, in case of nature).

Most games do the animal fetishes thing and miko/schoolgirl are different. It depends... if we're not planning to do this any time soon, we can drop it for now.
Most games that have well coded animal fetishes use only those characters that have these fetishes.

Btw miko outfit could be used as a part of some religious act, and schoolgirl uniform can be used in actual schools. I'd say it's worth to keep clothes along with main clothes tags that you proposed.

Rare or not, they exist and may find their way into the game so we need a failproof process to sort them out so we don't get BS writing vs pictures scenarios.
I don't use them, personally. I had like 3 in all my packs for all this time, so I decided to not include them at all. We can add such a tag as a failproof, of course.

Offline livingforever

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Re: New image tagging concept
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2014, 12:21:44 PM »
+ We can base tagging software off this and exclude tags or entire tag categories... so every pic would start with just three choices and unfold.
Done. Not exclusive though (meaning that you can still tag a picture as profile after you tagged it as sex)... should they be?

I think those three prime tags are worth the effort!
Don't worry about it. I can handle it. Focus on the tags that aren't used just for sorting.

How do you tag them? Same issue as I've described will arise during the tagging process. You'd have to store one set of sex tags for the pic, then another and maybe yet another afterwards... Living can translate them into tags we use now (and I would not have to change a thing) but interface for that might be confusing... you will also have trouble seeing how the image is tagged (you'd have to call some pop up window and view the combinations in use).
Not really a problem. Actually, the system to tag images based on an approach very similar to DarkTI's method and then translate it back into the old tags is already implemented. Changing it to use that method for tags doesn't even require new code, just a slightly different configuration.
Have fun!