devolution

Author Topic: New image tagging concept  (Read 37855 times)

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Offline DarkTl

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Re: New image tagging concept
« Reply #45 on: January 10, 2015, 06:18:39 AM »
"Main Category", regardless if it's masturbation or profile or something else can only have meaning by itself if you are willing to exclude all of tags the tags that it "opens *shows in the tagger". "profile" atm is our most widely used tags and we'll f*ck it up completely either by a lot of database lookups to exclude "Action" group or by having "Action" group randomly appear when we want to show profile pictures.

This needs to be done, you have to add something that opens the action category but doesn't have a tag of it own OR add a new tag, I don't care if you call it Non-Nude or Clothed or SFW as long as we explain what it does properly AND add profile as we understand it to the window with girlsmeets tag.
I still don't understand the difference between sfw and profile in terms of pure logic. Profile pics are safe for work, that's why we show them all the time. Profile=SFW.
I can replace natural nude with action main tag, and all actions will be there.

** Do note that we are currently using Slimegirls (one random and one from QB). They do work well enough so I see no reason to drop them. I can retag those two myself if you don't want to do it to try and find the best way for them to work without handling them as special case.
Yup, we do. I took a look at random one yesterday, it has like 1 profile picture with clothes (at all) and 3-4 that could be considered sfw only because of the pose (still without clothes at all).
Slimegirl from QB is more modest.

So say gb to slime random pack unless you willing to tag nude pics as sfw.

Cons:
- Extra click when tagging
- Rather large extra entry to the database (it's a popular image category).

Pros:
- We can exclude both gay/straight sex from lookup with one tag instead of two if required (I think it only needs to be done when working with masturbation taggroup).
- Less work for Dark ;)
There always will be that extra click. Because you have to select normal sex for a start, and not group or bdsm.
And yes, because I store that click, I don't need extra checks and the whole gui logic is perfectly clear  ;D

One more thing:
- Beast category... we decided not to use it in the past but we might want to reconsider with this review.
Sometimes, when character has something to do with monsters or animals, they are common, but in other cases they are rare as hell.
I mean, you always can find something for profile and something for sex, even when character has 10-20 pics in total.
But not for beast.

Another note: When retagging, please add all emotions to profile category so girls don't look happy all the time. System to add indifferent/sad based on joy stat is already working.
I always do so. It's not my fault that lazy artists don't draw all pics that we need :)
Try to display at least neutral ones if there are no sad ones.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2015, 06:54:57 AM by DarkTl »

Offline CherryWood

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Re: New image tagging concept
« Reply #46 on: January 10, 2015, 06:25:18 AM »
Lets say that you want to find an image based on clothing or location (or both). It may not be tagged with girlsmeets and profile, those are specific tags with meaning and their own place in the game.

Well, if it's for pictures that doesn't show some action but also don't fit to the profile (let's say miko outfit for non-miko girl ) then I can understand that, I had some of those before in my packs

But precision search like that woud not find anything for majority of the girls, so it would have to be done under /if girl has pics/ command or you just get random profile pics most of the time... I can't really see it so common that some extra excluding would be a big bother (compared to tagging every second pics with some additional SFW tag)

but yes, at least "profile" tag selectable independently or other tags please, that would help

-------
please no beast, it's like Dark said, I usually have enought trouble to find something for categories like anal sex as it is (I hate that one already).
« Last Edit: January 10, 2015, 07:03:07 AM by CherryWood »

Offline DarkTl

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Re: New image tagging concept
« Reply #47 on: January 10, 2015, 06:26:00 AM »
Ok, this has potential for job events, doesn't matter what the action was, as long as there was at least one male, we can show the pic with a corresponding text.
One more thing.
Cumcovered girl + 1 guy = normal sex + one guy + no more tags. Ie when they do nothing at all.
Cumcovered girl = cumcovered.
Though I could rename cumcovered to aftersex or something, to be more clear.

Offline DarkTl

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Re: New image tagging concept
« Reply #48 on: January 10, 2015, 06:30:21 AM »
Basically, cumcovered is a lack of partners in the presence of traces of sex. That's why you cannot actually tag them as sex or group, because the girl is alone there. Not matter how covered she is.

Note that there is a separate cumcovered tag in bdsm. I think it will be useful for events.

Offline Xela

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Re: New image tagging concept
« Reply #49 on: January 10, 2015, 07:04:43 AM »
I still don't understand the difference between sfw and profile in terms of pure logic. Profile pics are safe for work, that's why we show them all the time. Profile=SFW.
I can replace natural nude with action main tag, and all actions will be there.

You could replace it but it would simply further complicate the issue... I am not getting through to you so it's time for a show and tell presentations with examples from one of your packs:

First I would like to point out something that I have not said in previous posts because I believed it to be apparent:

Profile can be SFW!

SFW INCLUDES but IS NOT LIMITED to PROFILE pictures! That is the single thought that I cannot get across!

Example:

This image you've tagged with beach, profile and support tags. It's more or less ok if you as a pack maker wish to see beach images in profile. This is is BOTH SFW AND PROFILE.


This images you've tagged with Battle, Armor, Fighting and support tags. This image is SFW but it is NOT a profile image, at least you did not want it to be.
The problem IS THAT IT CANNOT BE TAGGED with your tagger in the same way. To GET to BATTLE or FIGHTING, you MUST tag it for PROFILE, NUDE or NATURAL NUDE. The image IS SFW but IT IS NOT!!!! PROFILE.


Better example:
You've tagged this with rest and support tags (I mean location/emotion and etc). This is a SFW pick BUT IMO SHOULD NEVER be considered a PROFILE picture. The thing is that SOME REST pics, can make decent profile pictures as well!
Once again, you CANNOT get to REST for this image BECAUSE IT's NOT NUDE, NOT NATURAL NUDE AND NOT A PROFILE!


To make matters worse, I (and apparently you) both consider this to be a good profile picture BUT THIS ONE IS NOT EVEN SFW!!!:


So what I've been trying to explain and CW understood from the first post is that to KNOW that a picture is JUST profile and tagged with your tagger, we need to exclude almost 20 tags AND WE'LL STILL LOOSE SOME PICS THAT COULD HAVE BEEN MEANT AS PROFILE PICTURES BUT CANNOT BE SORTED OUT AT ALL. It is a VERY bad design.

And (hopefully for the last time) I am asking you to:

- Rename Profile to SFW as it exists in the tagger today!
- Add profile to window with Girlsmeets, Rest, Battle, Beauty and Etiquette as a different tag!

Yup, we do. I took a look at random one yesterday, it has like 1 profile picture with clothes (at all) and 3-4 that could be considered sfw only because of the pose (still without clothes at all).
Slimegirl from QB is more modest.

I think we can make it work and it will never be sfw.

But not for beast.

Insane amount of WM packs have these...

Try to display at least neutral ones if there are no sad ones.

I'll take a look when system is reviewed for improvement.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2015, 07:23:17 AM by Xela »
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: New image tagging concept
« Reply #50 on: January 10, 2015, 07:42:34 AM »
Ok, I see what do you mean.

It's not like I cannot add profile checkbox, but things already becoming complicated. I'm not even sure how to write a guide for tagging anymore.

Insane amount of WM packs have these...
Because wm has insane amount of packs.

They are also even more random than group+bdsm together. So I'm not sure which subtags we can use at all.
I could just add another option to sex panel where you select sex/bdsm/group. As for subtags, I can only see rape and restrained. If you have any ideas, let's hear them.

Offline DarkTl

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Re: New image tagging concept
« Reply #51 on: January 10, 2015, 07:48:19 AM »
To make matters worse, I (and apparently you) both consider this to be a good profile picture BUT THIS ONE IS NOT EVEN SFW!!!:


It's a well known fact cliche that ninjas wear these reticulated things under clothes all the time  :D
It is a nsfw, but we can see only top part, so I thought, why not?  ::)

You know, I think we could use ninja as another special clothes tag!
It's not vague and it's very common.
 
« Last Edit: January 10, 2015, 07:50:56 AM by DarkTl »

Offline DarkTl

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Re: New image tagging concept
« Reply #52 on: January 10, 2015, 08:08:31 AM »
Wait, how can we use not safe for work pictures if you don't want them in profile? In this case they only can have striptease action tag.

Offline Xela

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Re: New image tagging concept
« Reply #53 on: January 10, 2015, 09:41:51 AM »
Wait, how can we use not safe for work pictures if you don't want them in profile? In this case they only can have striptease action tag.

I do want them in profile (Anko's image!).

It's not like I cannot add profile checkbox, but things already becoming complicated. I'm not even sure how to write a guide for tagging anymore.

But NOTHING changes. You leave SWF description as it was before (for profile).

You just add new field:

"profile": A good representation of character to be displayed in the profile/girlslists screens and to default to in case no images can be found. Any pack should have at least one such image

This is it... everything else remains the same.

Because wm has insane amount of packs.

They are also even more random than group+bdsm together. So I'm not sure which subtags we can use at all.
I could just add another option to sex panel where you select sex/bdsm/group. As for subtags, I can only see rape and restrained. If you have any ideas, let's hear them.

Add it as category, it'll be up to the modder to use them or not. I doubt that we'll have events for this any time soon.

If you want to add it:

Beast:
    - peaceful (many pics of girls just being in embrace for example)
    - forced
    - rape
    - tentacles
    - gore # we might need this to filter out on preference in some point in distant future. Might be a good idea to add this to some other groups as well. This can be one tag for all groups.
   
Otherwise it doesn't really matter all that much... we can live without it for a long time if not at all.
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: New image tagging concept
« Reply #54 on: January 10, 2015, 10:06:12 AM »
Sleep tag is in actions. Rest tag is in subtags for sfw, where girlmeets are, and where profile will be.
You want actions tags separated from profile completely.

Thus, it will be impossible to select both sleep and rest at the same time.

Offline Xela

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Re: New image tagging concept
« Reply #55 on: January 10, 2015, 10:47:04 AM »
Sleep tag is in actions. Rest tag is in subtags for sfw, where girlmeets are, and where profile will be.
You want actions tags separated from profile completely.

Thus, it will be impossible to select both sleep and rest at the same time.

I think you forgot how your tagger is working, you seem to think that only Profile and Natural Nude open the window with Girlsmeets and Rest tags :(

If you click Profile, Nude or Natural Nude in the tagger, both window appear:


This is how it should be. Rest, Girlsmeets, Beauty and even Battle and Etiquette (although admittedly, images for the last two are prolly rare) can be both NUDE and SFW! So can profile category!

There can be an image that is tagged with NUDE, PROFILE AND GIRLSMEETS at the same time! Exhibitionist can display such image in the beach for example.

I am asking you to leave that logic as it is, substitute Profile as you see in Main tags with SFW so it looks like:

Main tags:
sfw- qq
nude - nd
natural nude - nn
sex - sx
battle sprite - bs
portrait - po
sprite - qs
============================
sfw/nude subtags:
profile - pr
girlmeets - pa
battle - pb
rest - pc
beauty - pd
etiquette - pf

****
And it'll be perfect! Your tagger already works like this, to be honest I didn't realize that you wanted not to include those tags to nude...

Descriptions:

* SFW: Any image without explicit nudity (not even a naked nipple) and obviously any sexual acts. Bikini would belong here (such nudity should not be considered explicit)...
* Nude: Any image with any explicit nudity but NO sexual acts of any kind. Bikini and lingerie do not fit here as long as they are not transparent (no see-through), topless does.

Subcategories (This is not implicit, if image does not fit in any of these categories, skip this window):
*Do note that these categories permit Nudity where sensible.
"profile": A good representation of character to be displayed in the profile/girlslists screens and to default to in case no images can be found. Any pack should have at least one such image
- girlmeets: Any image that will fit to meet (and interact (talk) with) the girl. A sleeping/sitting girl would be a really bad fit here. So would a girl displayed in an odd position. Nudity is allowed (imagine exhibitionist at the beach location).
- battle: Images that could be used at arena, after exploration, etc. Ie when a character is ready for combat or for example has a weapon, but not actually fighting with someone.
- rest: Images that depict resting characters. They could sleep, lie somewhere, drink tea, play a game (not a sport game, more like video games or chess).
- beauty: Tag for beauty school and similar activities, like applying makeup, combing hair, looking pretty in front of the mirror and .tc.
- etiquette: Tag for etiquette school and similar activities, like showing skill in, knowledge of or otherwise displaying high society behavior or an action that can be associated with it. Usually a classy dress or sitting in front of a lot of forks :) . Dancing in a classy dress might be a fit here as well.
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Offline Xela

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Re: New image tagging concept
« Reply #56 on: January 10, 2015, 10:52:20 AM »
I still think we should get rid of natural nude, maybe even name sfw tag nn (none-nude) so it's easy to remember. We'll just tag them as they were before but make them "Slime" instead of "Unknown" in race. I can prolly cook something up with the code at some point in the future (like auto-add/remove tags).
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: New image tagging concept
« Reply #57 on: January 10, 2015, 11:00:33 AM »
Are you sure about Beast category? I'm ok with tentacles, but some pictures can be... unpleasant.

Offline Xela

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Re: New image tagging concept
« Reply #58 on: January 10, 2015, 11:10:29 AM »
Are you sure about Beast category? I'm ok with tentacles, but some pictures can be... unpleasant.

I don't care, you can always add it later. There will be demand for it and value of packs without the category will diminish but I don't expect that we'll add this any time soon, definitely not before content filters.
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: New image tagging concept
« Reply #59 on: January 10, 2015, 12:37:43 PM »
Alright, I've done it. No beast though, don't want to attract attention of those who like such things, maybe then demand won't be so high either  :)

Since delphi does it best to use common system resourses and support as many platforms as possible (including android and mac os), it's limited in terms of colors that can be used in application without adding a folder with images for buttons and backgrounds. And I don't really want to add optional files to release if it can be one single exe.

It is possible to compile the tagger for mac, but I don't have the compiler installed currently, and I cannot even test it properly anyway. If there will be high demand, I'll try it.