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Author Topic: <--Archived--> (ST concept)  (Read 20488 times)

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Offline Xela

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<--Archived--> (ST concept)
« on: April 11, 2014, 04:57:06 AM »
Oki

So my thoughts:

- Training should happen in non-brothel buildings
- Several girls can receive some training at the same time
- Girls can be either:
* Individually trained by the MC (disposition bonus)
* Train by themselves as ordered
* Trained by other trainers (new girls class)
all with it's receptive bonuses/penalties.

- Obedience training should be stat related (-1000 to 1000 range)
- Once specific obedience level is reached (based mostly on traits), girl should do any task but with penelties to joy/disposition if she hates the task
- The above should be a flag and have some serious effect on value
- Training should include but not be limited to:
* Talking (explaining situation girl has found herself in, telling her a bit about business, classes and etc.)
* Punishing/Rewarding for performance (Sex/Good food/Toys/Walks depending on traits)
* Training specific tasks obviously, may be done through layer of substats or something like skills trees or stats up to 10 max for example.
* Doing chores/jobs in the city, should be unlocked as player meets more and more NPCs

- PyTFall educators will not accept slaves that have not accepted their fate (they will train skills, not slaves)
- It will have a look similar to interactions I expect

For now I am leaning towards events/traits based training, but it's open for discussion. Any ideas/thoughts are welcome, the once I like or we all agree upon I'll add to this list, after a while I will write some specifics in the second post.

===
Dark:
* Living conditions, including sleeping place and food quality. Including, but not limited to, dungeons.
* Rules for slaves.
* Various punishments and rewards for obeying/disobeyed orders.
* Since you want to widely use trait-like stats, maybe add obedience/loyality/pride/fear traits as well.
* Slaves auction if you feel like coding a descent algorithm for it.
* Running away. Not sure how to deal with it without both life simulation and EE. They pretty much have nowhere to hide. Thus, maybe add a LS system as well.
* Special items like various shackles for rebellious slaves that consume their equipment slots and give stats penalties, but decrease chances to escape/resist/etc.
* Enslavement/abduction, like in wm, but balanced properly.

=========
I'll expand the list as more ideas are suggested.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2014, 03:20:14 PM by Xela »
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Offline Xela

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Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2014, 04:57:38 AM »
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2014, 11:40:24 AM »
I propose to introduce MC house for ST here. With dungeon and stuff.

Like a mini brothel, with rooms and capacity, maybe furniture in the distant future. Ideally, you need guards to watch over your house and slaves, service girls to keep house, strippers/whores (maybe we should combine these classes...) to "warm your bed".
Thus, you won't start with a brothel five minutes after arriving in the city.

And, having a house, MC could ignore brothels and make money by training and selling slaves. The first step to optionality of brothels.

Offline Xela

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Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2014, 12:33:05 PM »
I propose to introduce MC house for ST here. With dungeon and stuff.

Like a mini brothel, with rooms and capacity, maybe furniture in the distant future. Ideally, you need guards to watch over your house and slaves, service girls to keep house, strippers/whores (maybe we should combine these classes...) to "warm your bed".
Thus, you won't start with a brothel five minutes after arriving in the city.

And, having a house, MC could ignore brothels and make money by training and selling slaves. The first step to optionality of brothels.

Yeap.

Both routes should be available from the get go.
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Offline h3nta1fun

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Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2014, 01:06:46 PM »
I propose to introduce MC house for ST here. With dungeon and stuff.

Like a mini brothel, with rooms and capacity, maybe furniture in the distant future. Ideally, you need guards to watch over your house and slaves, service girls to keep house, strippers/whores (maybe we should combine these classes...) to "warm your bed".
Thus, you won't start with a brothel five minutes after arriving in the city.

And, having a house, MC could ignore brothels and make money by training and selling slaves. The first step to optionality of brothels.


I like the idea. But it shouldn't be so simple to get all the trining areas at the beginning. Something a bit more modular is probably better, that is to expand the house. So you start with just the most basic of houses, 1 room for MC, 2 rooms that can be used by whores and another one for an upgrade (bar, strip room, ST room/mini dungeon/lockdown room, kitchen for less upkeep for your staff), then some options for a backyard (a garden, a shed that can be used as a ST room, a pool/bathing area for relaxing).


Over time you should be able to get more upgrades available if you can either afford or unlock them somehow (for later possible events).


You can train your girls in there, or have them service strangers for skill training. I think you shouldn't be capable of turning it into a brothel, otherwise it would be just one more building. Instead they can get "customers" aka "guests" that either have sex, watch a mini strip show (lapdance also?), get drinks, for a small tip. Because it isn't really a brothel you don't get taxed for it, but on the other hand you don't get paid their full price for their services.


Eventually you can either sell the slaves for a profit or alternatively use this as a training ground for sending them to a brothel. Because either you train them (for bonus stat and disposition gains, plus stat gains for you) or your "guests" (if you don't want to use up AP- but no extra bonuses), the expectations shouldn't be high. So even the "guests" will be happy to have their way with them, without complaining about cold sandwiches :D


In the meanwhile, you can be focusing either on their training, the Arena or starting an running a brothel.


An interesting concept is to eventually have VIPs visiting your house once you are famous enough. Those could get also serviced by one of your girls (and you can even join for a group scene) and if they are happy they can sponsor you by offering you rewards based on their class. For example warrions can give you rare weapons, armor and equipment. Merchants, money and other rare items, Nobles, a lot of money and fame. Finally Slavers could offer you a girl at a discounted price. Over time the more famous you become, the better the classes of those VIPs are going to get and so will the bonuses. However their expectations will also increase.


To make the above a bit more unique, the VIPs will not come to your house by themselves, but instead will be invited by you. The concept behind it will be like the arena challenges and matches, only here you'll have to choose between different classes with different stat bonuses, rewards, expectations and fame requirements for you ( a Noble isn't going to show up if you have 0 fame ::) [size=78%])[/size]

Offline Xela

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Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2014, 01:29:46 PM »
Most of those are events, not normal operations. Lets try and focus on what the ST will be like!

I imagine couple of new buildings with different kinds of updates (did not think those through yet), prolly something security (anti-escape), relaxing (garden), scary (dungeon) related.

You enter a building like you would a brothel, instead of the management window, you get a background pic, small management window with most options on pop-up windows, all girls that are available for training (not resting) as imagebuttons (depending on their moods (like scared, defiant, content etc...)). There are not there if they're trained by a trainer, you can find them separately somewhere. It is possible to perform a number of actions right there or pick a girl individually and train her.

Available options that I came up with right now. Basically I am looking for ideas that are more down to earth right now, any system can be expanded later.
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Offline h3nta1fun

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Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2014, 01:41:09 PM »
For the most part it is similar to your idea (the first half of it). The later is indeed something that might be possible much later (beta version +).


The house thing can be a bit of a beggining building for that. Can modify/change some rooms for that, like regular rooms, a basement etc.


You either train them yourself, pick a random guy (least amount of stats but free of charge), or a trainer (more stats but have to pay for their services).


That is more feasible for now, I think.

Offline DarkTl

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Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2014, 04:29:31 AM »
Well, you could port a couple of things from other games here.

* Living conditions, including sleeping place and food quality. Including, but not limited to, dungeons.
* Rules for slaves.
* Various punishments and rewards for obeying/disobeyed orders.
* Since you want to widely use trait-like stats, maybe add obedience/loyality/pride/fear traits as well.
* Slaves auction if you feel like coding a decent algorithm for it.
* Running away. Not sure how to deal with it without both life simulation and EE. They pretty much have nowhere to hide. Thus, maybe add a LS system as well.
* Special items like various shackles for rebellious slaves that consume their equipment slots and give stats penalties, but decrease chances to escape/resist/etc.
* Enslavement/abduction, like in wm, but balanced properly.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2014, 08:19:20 AM by DarkTl »

Offline DarkTl

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Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2014, 08:57:40 AM »
I recall there was specific traits system in wm ex, something like "bdsm lvl 1" or "group lvl 3", don't remember the actual names, for all sex skills. They existed along with stats and limited their max levels, but they probably can replace stats completly.

So maybe we should limit girls sex related stats to one general sex stat, like we did with MC, and use traits like lesbian, bj, anal, group, bdsm, maybe even hj/fj, etc. with numerical levels. Or, if you don't like numbers here, with descriptive names like amauter/master/etc. There were 3 levels in wm ex if I'm not mistaken, we could use 3-5.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2014, 08:59:43 AM by DarkTl »

Offline Xela

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Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2014, 12:37:41 PM »
I recall there was specific traits system in wm ex, something like "bdsm lvl 1" or "group lvl 3", don't remember the actual names, for all sex skills. They existed along with stats and limited their max levels, but they probably can replace stats completly.

So maybe we should limit girls sex related stats to one general sex stat, like we did with MC, and use traits like lesbian, bj, anal, group, bdsm, maybe even hj/fj, etc. with numerical levels. Or, if you don't like numbers here, with descriptive names like amauter/master/etc. There were 3 levels in wm ex if I'm not mistaken, we could use 3-5.

Obscuring stats again hah? Any ideas on how we should track them? Like ranges/Strings (results of training)?

I will go back to coding tomorrow and will have some time this Tuesday as well. First, plan is to redo taxes a little bit and finish the restructure of the brothel class (forgot to move finances to the parent class). Afterwards I'll start with preparing stuff for ST system.
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2014, 01:49:53 PM »
Well, for a start they all should be limited by general sex stat. For example, you need at least 30 to have lvl1 anal (or, using skyrim terminology, be Apprentice in that skill), and, I don't know, maybe 200 to have lvl 5 (aka Master level) and 500 for end game characters to have lvl 6 (aka Legendary)  :D

Maybe they should have different limitations, like 30 for anal, 20 for bj and 40 for bdsm lvl 1.

Next, in wm ex these traits have hidden progress, so when a girl do group with MC or a client, the hidden progress for group traits is increasing. That's one option.

Another option is give levels automatically with increasing of sex stat if the girl is willing to participate in corresponding actions. So, you need high obedience/loyality/libido/whatever for high lvl sex traits.

Option #3 is using MC with skill tree where he has skills like "Master of bj" or "Expert in anal", and/or expensive manuals, and/or even more expensive (but less rare) sex schools to get new ranks of these traits when a girl has high enough sex stat. And high enough obedience/loyality/libido/whatever.

Offline DarkTl

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Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2014, 02:03:55 PM »
One more thing, if you intend to replace Intelligence with retarded<->genius traits, some kind of hidden progress is required anyway, even if limited. Being silly and become, well, maybe not smart/genius, but at least average is not impossible.

Offline Marquis

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Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2014, 05:10:32 PM »

Training obedience is the main thing I see that differentiates ST from the training that already exists at the academy or by MC Interactions.
Girls in ST could also use the pytfall academy style of training or MC interaction training. What is unique to ST is training obedience.

The structure I outline below is based on Obedience being on a 0 to 100 scale: at 0 the girl will do something only if she wants to, at 100 she is fully obedient even if she hates the act. Most girls will start with Obedience=0.

Some current traits should have universal modifiers to a girl's obedience stat
Mindfucked or Broken Will set Obedience to 100
Iron Will sets Obedience to 0
Dependant or Meek add +20 to the stat.

Obedience required to do various acts without other coercion/reward may have different thresholds.
For example, Strip might have a threshold of obedience=20 and Normal Sex obedience=40. Getting fairly paid for a job may modify this threshold.
Paying a girl 100% of the proper wage for a job might lower a threshold by -10.

Currently traits modify sex skills or change their maximum. This can stay the same. What would be added to traits are obedience modifiers to thresholds.

Some traits might modify this obedience threshold for all sex acts. e.g. Strict morals +20 to all thresholds, Nympho -20 to all, Bisexual -10 to all.
Others might affect only some acts.

For example, here's a sample of what could be the thresholds and some traits that modify those thresholds:
Service    obedience 10 to do it for free. Paying fair wages -10 reduces this to 0 required.
Strip       obedience 15 : exhibitionist -10
Blowjob   obedience 25
Sex        obedience 30
Lesbian  obedience 30 : lesbian -20
Anal       obedience 40
Group     obedience 50   
BDSM- dom obedience 60 : Tsundere -5, Aggressive -5, Meek +20, Merciless -10, Sadistic -30, Malicious -10, Kind +20
BDSM- sub obedience 80 : Aggressive +5, Meek -20, Masochist -30

So, in order to have girl with no traits trained to be a whore as they exist now (without Group or BDSM), her Obedience stat needs to be 40 to do it without pay.
If she's a Nympho (-20), she can have an Obedience stat of 20 and still be willing to be a whore for no pay. A Meek, Masochistic, Nympho might
readily be a BDSM Submissive (threshold only 10) but balk at other acts, so might not be ready for a Whore job in a brothel but used for specialty clients.
Letting your Aggressive, Merciless, Sadistic, Malicious Tsundere loose in the brothel might have lead to a dead body count.

Some other thoughts:
Warrior MCs may get a bonus to train slaves to be obedient by force.
Casanova MCs may get a bonus to train obedience using persuasion.
Items may be bought that affect obedience.
Drugs might add the Dependant trait (and give +20 obedience)

-end-

Offline Xela

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Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2014, 04:05:18 AM »
One more thing, if you intend to replace Intelligence with retarded<->genius traits, some kind of hidden progress is required anyway, even if limited. Being silly and become, well, maybe not smart/genius, but at least average is not impossible.

I don't necessarily intend to do anything, as mentioned before every approach has it's (often huge) advantages and disadvantages.

============
Option that I've been (strongly) trying out in my head:

Traits serve as delimiter ranges for stats (it was suggested somewhere I think). Right now the shittiest part about our/WM system is that all girls are very generic and especially at higher levels their traits become less and less relevant. We could have traits (or even locked traits) determining ranges for stats. It's another decent option to consider.

...

Decent setup, doesn't solve the "accepting slavery" issue and is a bit linear. Still a good start for indepth concept.
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2014, 04:53:45 AM »
Right now the shittiest part about our/WM system is that all girls are very generic and especially at higher levels their traits become less and less relevant. We could have traits (or even locked traits) determining ranges for stats. It's another decent option to consider.
Yup, an interesting idea. Then again, we need to decide how to track them.

I personally like wm ex approach, but it is not as simple and easy as others.
But, as clumsy as it might be from the point of view of tracking, sex traits system will greatly reduce the number of stats, like 1 single stat instead of dozens.
====================================================================
My thoughts about stats.

* We have full set for intelligence ready to go, maybe except the average intelligence level (just like average boobs).

* Charisma is a  compelling attractiveness or charm. I'd say it's not the actual beauty (they all are beautiful at pictures), it's the ability to use their  beauty correctly. We also have many items increasing it, like makeups.

Here we could use descriptive traits like boobs/legs/arse, maybe your favorite Cute trait, as well as Cool/Pretty/Lovely/Lolita/etc to determine range for charisma stat.

* Refinement is  fineness or elegance of feeling, taste, manners, language, etc. Basically, knowledge about society and stuff. Theoretically, it does not have a max level, there is always something new you could learn here. We do have a couple of traits, like elegant or well-mannered, that could affect it, but not many. Not sure what to do with it.

* Character is the inherent complex of attributes that determines a persons moral and ethical actions and reactions, or something like that. But in the game we use it more like pride or stubbornness, not as a character, so maybe we should rename it, or at least add pride as a substat (like fitness for constitution in SM3).
Once again, some traits like Iron Will or Dependant affect it.

* Constitution is the most clear our stat. Come to thing of it, you cannot be infinitely enduring, so here we could use traits to determine range, we have a lot of them.

Another thing is fitness. Basically, no matter how enduring you are, you cannot always be in top shape without physical activity, that's what it does as a substat in SM3. I always liked the idea.

* Magic defence. I propose to usethe formula mdef=(def+int)/3, or something like that. Right now magic is useless, because it requires mp AND it does about the same damage as attacks.

* Skills should be obtainable. For example, a lvl1 warrior does not have a service skill at all, thus she should have -------- on the skills page instead of service 0/20 for example. And she requires some basic training for a start to obtain it.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2014, 09:01:04 AM by DarkTl »