Author Topic: <--Archived--> (ST concept)  (Read 20857 times)

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Offline CherryWood

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Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
« Reply #30 on: April 13, 2014, 02:46:28 PM »
I do not favor races much... aren't there already traits like artificial body? I don't understand why create another system... especially if we manage to get more impact from traits. Or maybe we could just apply effects, like there already exist for some traits (extrovert...) but related to races? Like race: elf = effect "elven blood" or something.




btw. Because it's allowed to change occupations, we need a field in data files to disable some of them.


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Just some random idea: What about limiting levels? Some games have hard limits on what max. level of some characters could be. Sometimes this can be increased through story or some extra efforts, but a lot of times not, and that creates another layer of difference between character, who is talented to be a pro, and who is just a normal girl. (and makes extra hard-to-get characters more significant) (we could also limit ranks)
« Last Edit: April 13, 2014, 03:13:17 PM by CherryWood »

Offline DarkTl

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Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
« Reply #31 on: April 14, 2014, 12:18:45 AM »
I do not favor races much... aren't there already traits like artificial body? I don't understand why create another system... especially if we manage to get more impact from traits. Or maybe we could just apply effects, like there already exist for some traits (extrovert...) but related to races? Like race: elf = effect "elven blood" or something.
The problem here is not artificial body (it is perfectly fulfills its function btw), the problem here is that we have one general trait for a large number of races. While Alien is more or less ok (not perfect though), Not Human does not do anything at all, except being a flag for events (and I'm even not sure if we use it in the code currently). While obviously there should be at least some differences between races.

I agree that we should use effects instead of race properties, it will be more elegant solution. If we create enough different effects, then we could use them for pretty much any existing race without the need to create new ones.

Of course, we also will need permanent effect field in girls data files.

Just some random idea: What about limiting levels? Some games have hard limits on what max. level of some characters could be. Sometimes this can be increased through story or some extra efforts, but a lot of times not, and that creates another layer of difference between character, who is talented to be a pro, and who is just a normal girl. (and makes extra hard-to-get characters more significant) (we could also limit ranks)
Maybe, but we need at least level field in girls data files (instead of exp) for a start.

Nowhere and never, I said that GAME IS CODED that way already, I don't want to change texts/logic at this stage.
Well, that's why it called code review, but not messing with code or having some fun with code for example  ::)
If the difference between charisma and pictures bothers you (or a lot of players), change it. I don't care personally, because I think about charisma like about charisma, not about beauty.

Offline Xela

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Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
« Reply #32 on: April 14, 2014, 03:05:08 AM »
Well, that's why it called code review, but not messing with code or having some fun with code for example  ::)
If the difference between charisma and pictures bothers you (or a lot of players), change it. I don't care personally, because I think about charisma like about charisma, not about beauty.

Review is to improve readability, ensure possibility of future development and fix rookie mistakes. Not for rewriting the game.

I will not be around for the better part of the day, can you guys discuss and tell me what you think about the min/max range for stats based on "main" traits mechanism? I am only gonna go that way if one of handles the xml/json.

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For races, we just need them for reasons I've mentioned above, if Dark wants to make them matter beyond that, I don't mind. Like mentioned before, to me it seems redundant.
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
« Reply #33 on: April 14, 2014, 04:13:31 AM »
Review is to improve readability, ensure possibility of future development and fix rookie mistakes. Not for rewriting the game.
As far as I understand, we talking about texts here mostly, not actual code. And not even all texts, but only some of them.
Even I probably could rewrite them a bit (providing that I know where are they).

I will not be around for the better part of the day, can you guys discuss and tell me what you think about the min/max range for stats based on "main" traits mechanism? I am only gonna go that way if one of handles the xml/json.
I gave it some thought. While it solves several problems, it gives us a new one.

For example, silly limits it to 100. Let's say, an average girl reaches 100 int by lvl50. And that's it, there is little point in gaining more levels if by 50lvl she will have max possible int anyway, because she is not genius and will never be.
Same could be said about any stat, except refinement.

Thus, maybe we should somehow adapt stats to this system. Maybe even use Cherry's idea about limiting levels.

Or never, ever limit skills by that system, so at least you could continue to gain levels for them and have 1000 sex by lvl 200 or something like that.

For races, we just need them for reasons I've mentioned above, if Dark wants to make them matter beyond that, I don't mind. Like mentioned before, to me it seems redundant.
I like Cherry's idea about effects. They don't have to be hardcoded and do something very unusual, like traits effects (it would be too much mess), I'll just create a json. Like elven blood or celestial origin effects, for example.

What required from you is a field in girls data files for these effects, and some place for them in gui, probably just with other effects.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2014, 04:16:19 AM by DarkTl »

Offline Xela

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Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
« Reply #34 on: April 14, 2014, 12:02:12 PM »
I don't think that the stats range thing is an issue since not all stats will work that way, and we'll simple be creating new way of loading/handling traits.

On the effects topic, we decided not to do an effect field and have traits enable effects some time ago. Maybe race should be a locked trait?
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
« Reply #35 on: April 14, 2014, 12:14:29 PM »
I don't remember  :D

It could be traits, of course.
But I think we need to make it clear (for both us and players) which traits are locked and cannot be changed ever (boobs, race, etc), and which traits can be changed somehow eventually.

Maybe two lists of traits, or red frame around pemanent ones, or even rename permanent traits to something else, like features for example. Or some kind of small icon next to every permanent trait.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2014, 12:39:45 PM by DarkTl »

Offline DarkTl

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Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
« Reply #36 on: April 15, 2014, 12:15:46 AM »
One more thing is objective of ST. In SM you literally have to maximize all stats to gain max profit.
And do not accept their declarations of love, otherwise you will never sell anyone. Maybe we should do the same thing here, like disposition should be less than obedience if you want to actually sell one.

In Valet you prepare slaves for specific requirements, like maid or clerk, and get a fixed sum for it. If you try to sell unprepared slave, you will get like 10-50 times less, depending on looks.

Also, in both games you either work independently (no time limit, less money and fame) or on request (strict time limit, more money and fame).

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As a side note, I really like the idea of loyality as a stat that cannot be increased quickly and does complement obedience. Like, a girl with high ob and low loy will follow orders, but will run away or betray MC in other way when get the chance, while low ob high loy girl will not follow orders, but will prefer to stay with MC, help him when needed, etc.

On the other hand, disposition probably could work in the same way. Then again, the difference between disposition and loyality is that you don't have to be friends or lovers in order to be loyal to someone or even something (like to a guild or other organization).
« Last Edit: April 15, 2014, 02:06:57 AM by DarkTl »

Offline Xela

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Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
« Reply #37 on: April 15, 2014, 02:45:47 AM »
One more thing is objective of ST. In SM you literally have to maximize all stats to gain max profit.
And do not accept their declarations of love, otherwise you will never sell anyone. Maybe we should do the same thing here, like disposition should be less than obedience if you want to actually sell one.

In Valet you prepare slaves for specific requirements, like maid or clerk, and get a fixed sum for it. If you try to sell unprepared slave, you will get like 10-50 times less, depending on looks.

Also, in both games you either work independently (no time limit, less money and fame) or on request (strict time limit, more money and fame).

-Noted-



================
As a side note, I really like the idea of loyality as a stat that cannot be increased quickly and does complement obedience. Like, a girl with high ob and low loy will follow orders, but will run away or betray MC in other way when get the chance, while low ob high loy girl will not follow orders, but will prefer to stay with MC, help him when needed, etc.

On the other hand, disposition probably could work in the same way. Then again, the difference between disposition and loyality is that you don't have to be friends or lovers in order to be loyal to someone or even something (like to a guild or other organization).

Man... every time I hear "one more stat" I get a little bit sick :(

Stats that have pinpoint precision like Alchemy/BJ/Cleaning etc. that are limited and easy to work with aren't a problem, but stats like Loyalty can be effected by loads of thing and are very hard to work with.

Maybe now that CW is starting to feel more comfortable messing with code a little bit things will get better but before then, I'd really want to avoid new "general" stats.
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
« Reply #38 on: April 15, 2014, 03:01:52 AM »
Assistants.

In SM you can have a bunch of assistants, both slaves and free, and even though you have to chose one for the current slave, others are still available for interaction.
In Valet it's only one assistant, and a slave only.

While we'll have a new class for slavetraing, we probably could use personal assistant(s) for MC house as well. Maybe she/they will give MC bonuses depending on her/their stats, traits and/or occupation. And, of course, it's an excellent way for a player to highlight a character/characters that he likes most.

Stats that have pinpoint precision like Alchemy/BJ/Cleaning etc. that are limited and easy to work with aren't a problem, but stats like Loyalty can be effected by loads of thing and are very hard to work with.
I wonder if we need character stat actually, because it's the most vague one. It is very close to obedience, while other its aspects are expressed via various traits. So I wonder if we should either replace it by loyalty or rename to temperament, for example.

Don't know about you, but I cannot give a clear and comprehensive explanation to character, unlike obedience, temperament, loyality or disposition.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2014, 03:09:09 AM by DarkTl »

Offline Xela

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Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
« Reply #39 on: April 15, 2014, 03:25:14 AM »
Don't know about you, but I cannot give a clear and comprehensive explanation to character, unlike obedience, temperament, loyality or disposition.

Quote
1.
the mental and moral qualities distinctive to an individual.
"running away was not in keeping with her character"
synonyms:   personality, nature, disposition, temperament, temper, mentality, makeup; More

Google's definition.

I code with something similar in mind I guess, basically character is how strongly a girl would stand by her personality traits. It is by far one of the least used stats at the moment so yeah, if you can suggest a better, more useful stat, it's not too late to get rid of it. I like character over loyalty for sure because if I was to create a loyalty stat, it would be a derivative from disposition.
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
« Reply #40 on: April 15, 2014, 04:39:35 AM »
Hm, both Valet and SM have temperament, something like stubbornness and brightness of character.

And personality is
Quote
the sum total of all the behavioural and mental characteristics by means of which an individual is recognized as being unique
basically, how unusual and unique character is.

Temperament is probably closer to your definition, while personality is something way more general. I'd say personality is all stats and traits together rather than one stat.

Offline Xela

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Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
« Reply #41 on: April 15, 2014, 04:53:59 AM »
But it's not hard to explain and easy to work with and does not require changing anything at all. I am definitely not going to change it to temperament.
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
« Reply #42 on: April 15, 2014, 05:04:13 AM »
"The mental and moral qualities distinctive to an individual" are traits.
"How strongly a girl would stand by her personality traits" is temperament.
Good luck with explaining all this in the character tooltip  ::)
« Last Edit: April 15, 2014, 05:11:56 AM by DarkTl »

Offline DarkTl

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Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
« Reply #43 on: April 15, 2014, 05:11:12 AM »
Returning to ST, there are two modes. In SM you create a timetable and follow it as long as you want/need. In Valet you do anything you want whenever you want, providing that both MC and slave have enough AP and low fatigue (negative AP are high fatigue there).

We do have AP and MC, so Valet approach is totally possible. And we have a new slave training class for free charaters, here we actually could use schedules.

Offline Xela

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Re: SlaveTraining (ST) concept
« Reply #44 on: April 15, 2014, 05:18:47 AM »
We've decided to go with the Valet type...
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